Removing Ceramic Tile

Anonymous-0 · Dec 10, 2012

I will be remodeling my bathroom soon and think I may run into a snag. I will need to remove the existing 6" x 6" ceramic tile and prepare the surface for the new tile. When I built my home I used 3/4" T&G plywood for the subfloor and then installed 3/8" plywood on top. This enabled me to match the elevation of the 3/4" hardwood in the adjacent hallway. Here is my problem. I don't think I will be able to remove & replace the 3/8" plywood because in addition to nailing it down I used plenty of PL 400 adhesive. Is there a way to break out the old tile and prepare the old surface for the new tile ? Thanks for any pointers.

glennster · Dec 10, 2012

they make a scraper type blade for a sawzall, they work pretty good. i just did a tearout on a bathroom and it cleaned up the mortar real nice. if its not too big an area, a hammer and a wide chisel scraper works good. supposedly those fein multi master tools work good too, but i havent tried one yet.

Stephen Newell · Dec 10, 2012

As far as taking out the ceramic tile, I wear a full face shield and leather work gloves and break it up with a 8lb sledge hammer and then scrape the mortar. The plywood is going to take a lot of elbow grease. You might have to chisel it up.

Geo-TH,In · Dec 10, 2012

Dick,
My personal use, I use 1/2 inch cement board under my tile. There is a 1/4 inch backer board available. Have used it under tile. I was told not to put tile on wood, because wood moves too much with temp and moisture.

I put thin set under backer board or cement board and screw it down.

I don't like using large tile over wood sub floors, it will usually pop up or crack the tile.

Wood will flex when a heavy person walks on it, so I wouldn't go larger than 6x6.

To deal with elevation difference get you a piece of oak and make a transition piece. Done that many times. A few times I make the oak piece to match the elevation of the tile and grout to the oak. Or mill the oak to go over the tile.

George

Switchflicker · Dec 10, 2012

What I did was heat the tile with a propane torch as hot as I dared. That softened the adhesive behind and then worked a thin scraper (steel spatula if you wish) behind the tile. Most of the tile broke during the prying process, but the board behind the tile ( in this case it was that blue gyproc wall board) remained in very good shape. I wished there was cement board, but no such luck.

Dremmel makes an attachment to rout out the grout as well. I did that before the heat and pry stuff. Worked good.

Burned my arm a couple of times though.

Sw

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Sawzall or other types of reciprocating saws are not designed to hammer on the end.
They are designed to pull the teeth through the material you are cutting.
Using one like you suggest would wreck a $200 Super Sawzall® in short order.

Geo-TH,In · Dec 10, 2012

Used thin set under cement board and backer board, never had a problem. That was 20 years ago.

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Pops1532 · Dec 10, 2012

Use a 2" wide wood chisel to remove the tile. Don't pound on the tile. Drive the chisel under the tile. When it's set on plywood usually pops right off. Plywood is generally a bad underlayment for ceramic.
If you need to remove the plywood it won't be too hard. It may pull a little veneer off the sheathing. No big deal. If it pulls a lot of it off just patch it with something like Durham's Rock Hard water putty (paint dept. at Lowes).
Use 1/4 or 1/2 cement board underlayment. It's sold under names like Hardi-Backer.
The instructions actually say to set the underlayment in thinset. Who follows the directions? I use construction adhesive and screws. You want to eliminate as much movement as possible. With 1/2" underlayment I'll put screws every 4" around the perimeter of each sheet, and 8" both directions in the field. 1/4" will get 2 1/2" around the perimeter and 6" in the field. (UD, I know you think that's overkill but I know guys that do 4" in the field).
My concern is not for the guy that tears out my work. My concern is that what my customer pays me to do lasts a very long time.

UD, getting a little OT here.....what gets me riled is when I tear out a floor that has vinyl on 1/4" lauan over vinyl on lauan, over vinyl on lauan. Each layer with staples or nails every 4".

Greg1959 · Dec 10, 2012

Just tear it out to the joists and replace with sub-flooring(Advantech) and cement board. Only use thins-set to set the tile.

HTH

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Geo-TH,In · Dec 10, 2012

Tearing out is not my problem. After I die, it may be the new owner's problem. I've done 5 rooms in my house and 4 rooms for my sister. Not one tile has popped, cracked, no grout failure. No plans to ever change tile either.

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Edit
I'm going to have to do some soul searching on this.

Geo-TH,In · Dec 10, 2012

I'm not going to care what anyone says about me when I'm dead. I only work for myself, so I only have one person to make happy. Also worked for my sister. I worked for food and a ticket to Florida where she lives.

I figure my floors will be there after a tornado, earth quake and who knows maybe a fire.

Bob UT · Dec 10, 2012

Ultradog.....Are you a LICENSED CONTRACTOR? My guess is NO. On the other hand, I am. I do not know of any tile underlayment manufacturer that states in their installation instructions to NOT use thinset under their product. Just the opposite. It is the approved method in the TCNA handbook. Just irks me when someone blatantly gives the wrong advice...AND multiple times in the same post.

Ultradog MN · Dec 10, 2012

Kirk Grau · Dec 10, 2012

I actually agree with your premise, but manufacturer recommends the thinset to meet applicable standards. I have thinset under the 3 floors I have done. I can only hope my wife"s tastes don"t change before we leave the place for some reason.

In the future, I may just use your theory and only use the screws.

Kirk
HardiBacker Info

Pops1532 · Dec 10, 2012

I don't know about UD but I am a licensed contractor. Been doing this for a living since '77. Grew up around construction before that. So I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
As I said in my previous post my duty is to my customers. I don't work cheap. I don't use cheap materials. My customers expect the work I do to last for a very long time. I can honestly say that I've never had a customer request that I do my job in a way that's easy to tear out.
The last thing you want with a tile underlayment is movement. If that means "welding" it to the sheathing then so be it.

I don't have a problem with UD or how he does things. I don't even care if he doesn't like how I do things. I realize people do things differently and they have different goals.

glennster · Dec 10, 2012

The scraper blades work better on the standard sawzall, it has a short stroke compared to the super. I have both sawzalls. The blades work well for scraping off the mortar after the tiles are removed.

JRSutton · Dec 11, 2012

You can rent a power hammer/scraper and blast all the tile off.

You should be able to get it pretty smooth that way. A good beltsander with some 40/60 grit emery will flatten anything left (use a good respirator).

If it's a small bathroom - it's a lot of work, but doable.

If it were me - I'd take a skilsaw, set the blade to 3/8 depth with a demo blade and criss cross that plywood and just peel it all up.

REAL pain the but - but if you want to to things right and set a floor that'll outlast you, that's the way to go.

Yyou should then use 3/8 cement board set in thinset - tape the seams.

whatever you do, remember floor height is important - don't do the 1/4" on top of the 3/8 plywood. 1/4" doesn't sound like a lot - but it is. The floor will look and feel real thick.

Do it right.

Removing Ceramic Tile

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