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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Any gun Smiths here

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old

12-02-2012 08:52:39




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Ok heres the deal I have a Mauser Modelo Argentino 1891 Manueactura Loewe Berlin Serial number N7459. Been told this is a 7.65 Argentina. But there are no markings on it to know for sure what caliber it is. I have tried to shoot 7.65 in it and they seem to chamber well but when you pull the trigger there is no bang. I am thinking either the firing pin is bad or the firing pin spring but not sure and would love to get this rifle to work again
Thanks

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Hogleg

12-04-2012 04:37:13




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
You can make 7.65 argentine brass out of 30-06 brass. Just cut it down and reform it in the die. I used new brass so that I did not have to anneal it. Google for the process to use.
John



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old

12-04-2012 09:08:04




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Hogleg, 12-04-2012 04:37:13  
Ya I think the reloads I have on hand that who knows who reloaded for this 7.65 are in fact 30/06 brass that was re-sized for the 7.65 and have since found some of it was done poorly since you can remove the bullets with your finger tips



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Bret4207

12-03-2012 15:28:00




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
I've seen reloads for the .311 cals that sometimes contain .308 bullets. A mic will tell you if that the trouble. There are several good .311 cal bullets out there that work fine on targets and deer/bear. Myself, I find a nice cast boolit of about 200 grs at a nice leisurely 17-1800 fps a whole lot more fun and less expensive out of my 91. Up it into the 2K + area and Bambi falls down quick.



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old

12-04-2012 08:36:17




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Bret4207, 12-03-2012 15:28:00  
Yep know about the .311 bullets since I reload both 7.62X54 and 7.62X39 and both use the .311 bullet. I use a Sierra /311 174 grain boat tail match grade hole point in my 7.62X54 and like how it does



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Bret4207

12-03-2012 10:22:06




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
It's a Model 91, not a 93 or 95. Different design.



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jackinok

12-03-2012 07:15:57




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
remove the bolt from rifle ,look at bolt face. if its square,or flat on bottom its a 93 or older action. and a firing pin from a 93 whould work. if bolt face is round,its the so called 95 action,and that model firing pin should work. DO NOT CHANGE BOLTS. firing pin protusion should be .050 or there abouts with bolt decocked.



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jackinok

12-03-2012 07:00:24




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
takes about two seconds to check the firing pin.remove the bolt,look at the bolt face, if you cant see end of firing pin its broken. very common on the early mausers.you can replace it in about three minutes also,if you know how to strip the bolt.looked at the case you tried to fire,no dent in primer,firing pin.small dent in primer,possibly spring weak. may just be a dirty bolt,they were packed in cosmoline for years. just a tip for your own safety ,that rifle could be chambered in any caliber ever made.dont fire it till you know for sure.even though that is one of the better mausers,and was one of the few other than turksish mausers made in the mauser factory,in berlin in its heyday.it still has limitations.one of the last rifles mauser hisself had any say in the production of.and it was of the highest quality for the day. sold the company and just stayed on as a designer,right at the beginning of mauserwerks heyday.he never really profited by his designs much,and never lived to see the 98 mauser which he is most famous for.

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Bret4207

12-03-2012 04:35:54




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
The pins can also be repaired by a knowledgeable gunsmith. It's basically boring a hole and installing a new tip. Be advised if you replace the bolt entirely you may alter the headspace which can be a problem. If you get that bolt just switch pins.

Dies are available from Lee at good prices, bullets are .311 diamter like a 303 Brit.



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old

12-03-2012 10:35:19




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Bret4207, 12-03-2012 04:35:54  
If you pull the bolt out you can just see the tip of the firing pin but it sits back inside just a tad bit and when I try to fire a round it does not dent the primer much if any. As for the bolt I have hard the pin and spring out of it but could not seem to unscrew the firing pin from the Bolt sleeve as per the picture in my guns parts corp catalog. I am planing on just taking the pin spring and sleeve form a bolt I have on the way and swapping those parts out and keeping the bolt I now have. Alinar has one he said he would send me. The rounds I have for it are reloads but not mine and found that half of them have the bullet very loose in the brass so will dump the powder out and check primer fire with empty cases

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LincolnIA

12-02-2012 18:25:04




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
Same thing happened with mine when I first got it. The guns were packed with cosmoline when put in storage. Mine had the firing pin and firing pin spring so packed with cosmoline, it wouldn"t move. The bolt is very simple to take apart once you know how. Tons of info on line about bolt disassembly.



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old

12-02-2012 19:09:14




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to LincolnIA, 12-02-2012 18:25:04  
I did figure out how to take it apart and looked it over real good and found that the pin is broken off so it will never go out far enough to hit the primer and on these the firing pin should stick out about a 1/16 of an inch when not cocked and this one stays flat with the end of the bolt so no fire.



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alinark

12-02-2012 16:30:47




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
old i have a bolt for your rifle got a number i can call you at al



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old

12-02-2012 16:51:07




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to alinark, 12-02-2012 16:30:47  
My e-mail is always open on the site and that is the only way I give out my number due to scams etc. Or if you can not figure out how to send e-mail some have problems it is oldcoal@earthlink.net



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alinark

12-02-2012 17:10:41




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 16:51:07  
old sent you an e-mail al



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Hogleg

12-02-2012 15:34:43




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
Going to be pretty hard to make a new firing pin. It is about 8 inches long with some interesting machining work and I am sure it will need to be of a specific metal and hardened. Much easier to buy a surplus firing pin from the many Mauser parts companies. If you like, I will do a search and find you some names... I used to buy parts from a place in upstate new york 10 years or so ago, but don't know if they are still in business.
I have build 5 sporter rifles from military mausers so pretty familiar with the action. I have a 1909 Argentine mauser in 7.65 in the gun safe.
John

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old

12-02-2012 15:58:53




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Hogleg, 12-02-2012 15:34:43  
I do have an old catalog of the Gun parts corp but not sure if they are still around so yes might be nice to find some place to get a firing pin but I alo hope to open up the bolt in the next day or so and see what is wrong for sure



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Billy NY

12-02-2012 19:42:09




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 15:58:53  
This your Mauser '91 Argentine? Numrich Arms (Gun Parts Corp) is very much still in business, 55 or so miles south of here, years ago when I got out early on a friday in nyc I would stop in on the way home, or make a special trip when working on something, knew it was in stock, they ship reasonably quick, but I see their may be some stock issue with springs, I have a rifle that needs a cartridge lifter spring, out of stock for months. Worst case I'll measure it up and see what it would be to have it made, otherwise I'll have a .22 WMR wall hanger LOL

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Bret4207

12-02-2012 14:33:09




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
I also have an 1891 Argentine Mauser in 7.65x53. Wonderful rifle. They were superseded by the 1909 Argentine Mauser in the same caliber. In fact at one time the Model 54 Winchester was also chambered for this excellent round. I would bet if you disassemble the bolt you'll either find the firing pin tip broken or there may be a century of accumulated dried grease causing your light strike. Hornady, Grafs, Norma and Privi Partizan still load ammo and you may find older brand name ammo on the shelves too. The ballistics are similar to the 308, maybe a trifle slower but still healthy. I find mine to be a fine carrying rifle, slim and trim, feels like one of my long rifle muzzle loaders sort of. Make sure you only feed cartridges from the mag as they are a controlled feed design and extractors can be hard to find if you bust one.

I think Bob may be thinking of the 1894 Swedish Mauser which was followed by the 1896 Swede. The 91 stayed in service til the 09 came along. The cartridge and some rifles were used in WW1 by Belgium and Turkey and in several South American conflicts. The 91 is a bear to restock due to the protruding mag and no commercial semi inlet stocks are available that I know of. Scoping a 91 can be done but the gun ejects more to the top than side and that can be a problem. Buehler made an aftermarket safety for the 91 at one time, but I haven't seen one in decades.
This post was edited by Bret4207 at 14:35:14 12/02/12.

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old

12-02-2012 15:57:08




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Bret4207, 12-02-2012 14:33:09  
Been thinking about taking the bolt apart if I can figure out how that is and have a look so. At this point pretty hard to hurt it since it will not fire as it is and I do not need another wall hanger. This one is like the other rifle we have talked about no good if it does not fire but at least I have ammo for this one



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RGMartin

12-02-2012 15:05:22




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Bret4207, 12-02-2012 14:33:09  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

A good synopsis, another alternative explanation would be the chamber having been reamed to something with more readily available ammo. I have seen 91s reamed to 30-06. Not safe in the least.



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fatbob50

12-02-2012 14:02:04




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
It is a 7.65 x 53 Argentina. They only made them for about 2 years and then they switched over to the 1894, which was a different caliber. The shells are plentiful for the gun. You can also still buy the old military rounds, but some of them tend to misfire. It is an excellent gun to restock and make into a nice deer rifle. They also make an after-market safety for that gun, so that you can use a scope on it. Hope this helps. Bob

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MarkB_MI

12-02-2012 12:25:53




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
I would start by pushing a soft lead slug down the barrel, then mike it to see what the bore diameter is. If it's .311, then there's a fair chance it is 7.65 Argentine. But there's no guarantee it hasn't been rechambered for a different cartridge, .30-06 for example. Only a chamber casting will tell for sure.

The misfire could be due to excessive headspace, a common problem with surplus rifles. One really shouldn't shoot a surplus rifle without first checking headspace.

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old

12-02-2012 16:03:10




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to MarkB_MI, 12-02-2012 12:25:53  
Well since I have a number of sizes of bras on hand I can say this for sure. The 308 will not fit and the 30/06 does not fit but the 7.65 Argentine rounds I have do fit well so at this time pretty sure it is the 7.65 Mauser which all the books I have point that way also. I plan to try to open up the bolt and see if I can see what maybe wrong with it. Figure at this point it would be pretty hard to mess it up much more then it already is

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JMS/.MN

12-02-2012 19:17:49




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 16:03:10  
Nice typo in your first sentence! LOL



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old

12-02-2012 19:23:00




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to JMS/.MN, 12-02-2012 19:17:49  
LOL ya did not see that till just now guess your the only one with good eye sight LOL



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Billy NY

12-02-2012 09:32:00




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to old, 12-02-2012 08:52:39  
No gunsmith here, but am curious. Is the ammo still good ? Or, what does the primer strike look like after you pull the trigger? That is if the round is a typical centerfire. I've seen week struck rounds before, that did not fire, last one was an M1 carbine that I can recall. You could see the difference.

The other thing is not being able to confirm the caliber unless you could compare a detailed sketch of the round and the chamber ? How do they do that in a situation like that, if there is no real marking, or any information to go by?

Interesting dilemma on an old mauser, kinda why I am curious, always enjoyed working on firearms since a young kid, cleaning, maintaining, as well as minor repairs, nothing risky, if I won the lottery as many say, I think I'd go to gunsmith school, be nice even if no lottery LOL, very interesting to me!

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Rich_WI

12-02-2012 09:53:46




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Billy NY, 12-02-2012 09:32:00  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

You make a chamber cast and take measurements off of that.

http://www.surplusrifle.com/shooting2005/chambercast/index.asp

You can buy cerrosafe here. http://www.brownells.com/gunsmith-tools-supplies/barrel-blanks-tools/barrel-chamfering-accessories/cerrosafe-reg-chamber-casting-alloy-prod384.aspx

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old

12-02-2012 09:37:01




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 Re: Any gun Smiths here in reply to Billy NY, 12-02-2012 09:32:00  
Been a while since I tried to fire it but if I remember right the primer had little to no dent in it so that is why I think either the firing pin or spring is bad. I do have the world guide to gun parts catalog that shows a good brake down of the gun and thinking about opening it up to see if I find a broke part or spring. If it is a bad firing pin I have a friend who I may talk to about machining me one since that is what he does for a living and has a lacht (sp) at his home. Just another one of those guns I got years ago from some one who owned me $$

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