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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

More U.S. made goes bye bye

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Butch(OH)

11-26-2012 11:44:39




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Stopped by TSC yesteday since they are all restocked for Christams shopping and noticed that all the Ingersol Rand compressors small to big now say made in India, even the 2 stage v twin T-30 type. I just bought and I-R there mid summer because it was still made here, glad I didnt wait.




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Dalet

11-27-2012 21:48:39




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Bradracer18, 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
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True, but the Good Old USA is fine with outsourcing menial labor. We are above breaking a sweat apparently. Our slums may become our manufacturing centers once again if the world changes. Where will we find the workers? Everyone here is too used to working out of their mailbox, not at a job.

Oh wait, they have debit cards, no reason to check the bills in the box..

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JRSutton

11-27-2012 10:32:54




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
Something I don't hear much of is the fact that we won WWII because of our manufacturing capabilities. Plain and simple.

We were able to quickly turn button factories into bullet factories.

Even relying on our current manufacturing ability (which is STILL pretty impressive) Any automated machine equipment used in this country will eventually need parts from overseas to keep it running. We'd be ok for a little while...

... but that's about it.

I think you'd be hard pressed to find someobody under 40 years old that even knows what a lathe is, let alone how to use one without a computer attached to it, and a guy who flies in from japan to fix it every time it breaks down.

One might also wonder where we'd get raw materials like steel should our connections ever get broken with the rest of the world.

Yeah - we're becoming a service nation...

Service nations do what they're best at, serve the rest of the world.

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scotc

11-27-2012 21:41:23




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to JRSutton, 11-27-2012 10:32:54  
India's manufacturing abilities helped us win WW2 as well. Mahindra was building Jeeps and other vehicles for allied use.



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PJH

11-27-2012 06:04:52




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
It's coming to the point where nothing will be manufactured from start to finish in the USA. Get used to it. There's absolutely nothing that we, as peons, can do about it.



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Chester5731

11-27-2012 06:10:17




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to PJH, 11-27-2012 06:04:52  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I don't think it is coming to that point. I think it is already there.



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MFPoor

11-27-2012 03:45:35




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
What was once great American brands, International Harvester, New Holland, and Case, are now (as of yesterday) officially owned by Fiat. At least AGCO (for now) and Deere are US owned, even if much of what ALL brands sell are produced overseas.

Low point for me personally was when I recently ordered a new US flag and a 7th Cavalry flag to fly over my place and when they arrived found they were made in China.

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wgm

12-04-2012 15:32:58




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to MFPoor, 11-27-2012 03:45:35  
Yeah and John Deere doesn't make anything overseas.



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leej

11-26-2012 21:39:28




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to GUIDO, 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeNOT you. Not me. None of us are guaranteed a job! We are a commodity, a tool, a fixture, just like a mill, desk, or drill, paid to use as long as useful & functional, cost effective & needed........then get rid of it. Now if you think otherwise, stick your fist in a bucket of water, then pull it out...the hole it leaves is how much you will be missed. This is not an imaginary world we live in. This is a real world, where logic, reasoning & the free market prevails. At least when ham fisted politicians keep out of it.
When ever you or I don't think we are paid enough, we are free to "up shop" for a better job. Man, I'm telling you, it is very simple. On pay day, you & the company are even, you owe them nothing & they owe you nothing. Stop dreaming. Wake up.

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wisbaker

11-26-2012 20:42:01




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
Maybe my comment on Global warming was misunderstood what we are experiencing is part of a normal cycle, in my opinion the earth is still trying to establish equilibrium OR is responding to other major events that have disrupted the balance, like volcanic eruptions. The idea that we caused it or we can stop or reverse it is absurd. Claims made by global warming proponents are exaggerated and papers done years ago proposed we would be a lot warmer now than we actually are. The way in which the work was presented and the lack of openness about how the conclusions were made makes me skeptical and the lack of the correlation of their projections to what actually happened over the last 20 years would indicate further discredits the work in my opinion. Projections they made 20 years ago have not occurred, they were wrong.

If global warming projections were indeed accurate and methods and models used to develop these conclusions was shared AND actual weather occurrences were plugged into the model as they occurred and the projections updated as actual data could displace projected data it might lend it more credibility. The problem is if they do that (apply the scientific method and use normal statistical analysis) their hypothesis or conclusions would not be proven right. The model is using various greenhouse gas concentrations to project an increased warming trend. Some of the data I have seen indicates that increasing greenhouse gas levels are a RESULT of warmer temperatures not a CAUSE.

About the break comments, I remember specific break requirements listed on our poster by the time clock when I worked in Tennessee, I assumed they were federal requirements after further research it was a Tennessee law, not federal. My research indicates Wisconsin has no such law. Who would of thought a Southern Right-to-Work state affords their workers a greater degree of protection and benefits than a "progressive" state like Wisconsin?

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casenut1

11-26-2012 21:34:09




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to wisbaker, 11-26-2012 20:42:01  
I agree with you 100%. The problem is somebody's friend named Al something or other has figured out a way to scare people and make money off of it.



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Billy Shafer

11-27-2012 04:53:45




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to casenut1, 11-26-2012 21:34:09  
Friend of mine lives near Al Gores house. Said that mansion burns more electricity in one month. Than most do in a year. Plus let us not forget his fleet of SUVs a private jet and the many other gas burners he has.

But I guess when you are out there ripping people off you can afford it.



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Bob Huntress

11-26-2012 21:55:44




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to casenut1, 11-26-2012 21:34:09  
In my opinion, that is half the problem. Some have found a way to get money from fearmongering. At the heart of nearly every policy that government and the UN have developed to solve the global warming issue only transfers wealth to prefered persons. While nation, such as America are expected to reduce emissions, no such demands are expected of prefered nations, such as China, in any of the treaties floated by the UN, such as the now defunked Kyoto. Nothing is mentioned of using technology to reverse the effects. You would think that with all the depleted ozones that some greenie hippy type would start talking about rebuilding that depleted ozone layer, but, no. What we get is why we should buy hybreds and greenie endorsed products and pay a carbon tax. No mention of what things we should actually do to save the icebergs and polar bears. It's a money making scam. Even those who research the matter would lose their research grants if they ever said that there was no man made global warming.

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Centex Farmall

11-26-2012 21:05:47




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to wisbaker, 11-26-2012 20:42:01  
Scientist have found evidence that shows at different times that the earth has been both completely covered in ice and completely devoid of ice caps.

If a comet hits the planet it will be blamed on car exhaust.



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Centex Farmall

11-26-2012 19:28:50




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
I bought one from TSC about 5 years ago and even then I couldn't determine for sure where the actual compressor was made. The tank was U.S. and I don't remember if the motor was or not. I think they were transitioning back then. The whole think was marketed as made in the US but that could mean assembled in the US. IR is a global type company and has been for a long time.

We don't need manufacturing. We have a "service" economy and can deliver pizza's to each other.

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casenut1

11-26-2012 17:45:30




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
i posted a response to wisbaker down a ways. global warming is real , problem is we can't stop it. it is a Natural cycle. it has happened before. so that being said, as a natural cycle so will an Ice- Age. they take several thousand years to complete, we will all be long gone.



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Charles (in GA)

11-26-2012 17:40:08




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
IR has been making the pumps in India for quite a while now, several years.

Charles



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ks tom

11-26-2012 17:18:01




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
As always as the ship go down everyone want to point the finger at other guy and say it your fault. As people in ks are building houses and you have to stand in line at wendy's for a sandwich.As you go to a sale money flow.



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Gchase24

11-26-2012 16:46:16




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
NC Wayne, Your statement
Our taxes pay for OSHA, and it's OSHA's job to enforce the laws on the books. If they need a union to force them to do it (((and I've known them to do inspections, and levy huge fines on just as many non union companies as union controlled companies))) then we have a huge problem with out tax money being wasted for something other than what it was taken from us for.

That said, OSHA and company rules will never over ride the pure human stupidity. That one thing causes way to many accidents than anything else. Problem is that ultimately they get blamed on the company, instead of on the stupidity of the individual that caused said accident........ My wife works for a company where a worker was killed when he was instructed to work on a 13000 volt electrical panel by his supervisor not even being a electrician!! He had a choice do it or go to the house.The company was fined $40,000 after the fact. Don't think companies won't put safety ahead of production. Happened in april of this year.

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G1355

11-26-2012 15:56:34




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
At least snap-on stays in the USA



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the tractor vet

11-27-2012 06:10:08




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to G1355, 11-26-2012 15:56:34  
OH REALLY ???? ARE YOU DEAD SURE OF THAT???? YA WANT TO BET YOUR LIFE ON THAT ???? Setting on my desk wright now is a brand new still in the box Snap On timing lite modle #EETL 500 , and just where do you think it was made , CHINA . BUT IT DOES SAY SNAP ON. and for just the small price of 332dollars and change it is mine , and oh it was on sale . Am i going to keep it , Ain't no way it is going back to the Snap OFF tool man when i see him friday . I will keep looking for a OLD made in the USA timing light on Craig's list or E/Bay . Bad enough i do have some China made wood working tools that are just about junk. All of my mechanic tools are MADE IN THE USA . And some of them are OLD just like me .

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G1355

11-27-2012 06:39:17




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to the tractor vet, 11-27-2012 06:10:08  
Tools might be, but I don't think their tool boxes are, they have a big plant in Iowa that makes them



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Charles (in GA)

11-26-2012 17:39:17




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to G1355, 11-26-2012 15:56:34  
You just wish Snap-On stays US. The have a factory in China and are making stuff there. About a year ago they began removing the USA markings from tools as they changed dies. Its a mix right now, but at least some of the stuff you buy from SO is made in China.

Charles



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mkirsch

11-27-2012 05:20:29




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Charles (in GA), 11-26-2012 17:39:17  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

They are forced to make the move. If they don't their tools will be so expensive that NOBODY will buy them no matter how good they are.

There simply aren't enough chest-thumping patriots who are willing to spend a "little" more on true USA made products to support the company. It's either move production overseas, or go out of business right now.

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G1355

11-26-2012 19:36:03




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Charles (in GA), 11-26-2012 17:39:17  
The tool boxes are made in the u.s.a right? Know they have one plant in Iowa because my uncle works there and they make toolboxes and he said they closed a Canada plant and expanded there's in Iowa so they could make more in the u.s.a and close there Canada plant



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Puddles

11-26-2012 15:31:11




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
It won't be long until the world's manufacturing moves to Africa. I read an article a few years ago saying Africa is the last cheap labor on the planet.
It happened in Japan, happening now in China, and India, the workers there are getting smarter and want more money for their efforts.



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Greg K

11-26-2012 16:28:27




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Puddles, 11-26-2012 15:31:11  
Nah, by the time they are done exploiting Africa we will be so poor that we will be the cheap labor. It all comes full circle



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welding man

11-26-2012 15:04:57




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
Had a new Ford F-450 in the shop the other day instaling a bed. Looked down at the differental and saw a tag.Made in India



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s.crum

11-26-2012 14:46:10




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
I suppose before too much union bashing gets going, it's worthy to note that the IR air tool division up in Athens went NON-union some 15 years ago and it closed down 2 years ago. At the time of closure it was mostly an assembly operation as most if not all parts were brought in from overseas. The tool could get the USA label by being assembled here. The IR foundry division in Waverly NY closed almost 20 years ago. One of the guys I work with was a foreman there. It was cheaper for IR to have their casting and machining done overseas than just the casting done 3 miles from their machining and assembly plant. Worker productivity is a huge issue in any business. To bash a union, it would appear the big issue is productivity being stiffled by antiquated union rules, and a few boneheads that refuse to budge because it "violate tradition".

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GordoSD

11-26-2012 15:54:43




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to s.crum, 11-26-2012 14:46:10  
Did you see all the bonehead union rules at Hostess. Bread and twinkies could not be on the same truck!



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Lamar Fudd

11-26-2012 14:41:44




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
[quote="Tom in TN"](quoted from post at 23:34:52 11/26/12) Gchase24,

I don't know about the negotiations at Hostess, but based on your statement, the bakers faced a reduction of 30% in pay. I know that I would have a hard time with a 30% reduction, but I would be willing to accept a 100% reduction.
Oh, wait. Maybe that wouldn't be too good either.

Tom in TN[/quote

] They also lost the $3.00 an hour contribution they were having taken from their paychecks to help keep the company afloat. Executives gave themselves huge bonuses with that money and decided to go Bankrupt. A Judge approved the scheme with the pension money. Some Justice, huh.

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Gchase24

11-26-2012 13:56:25




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
I am so sick and tired of union bashing! If you do some research you would find the Twinkies company had ten or more CEO's and numerous managment problems prior to thier closing.They wanted the union to take up to a thirty percent cut in wages. Can you survive on a thirty percent reduction in wages? Hell no!!!!! US companies are reporting record profits and the medium US workers wages are at an all time low since the 1960's. Do your home work before you make stupid statements.

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MSD

11-26-2012 20:20:34




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Gchase24, 11-26-2012 13:56:25  
So 100% wage cut is better than 30% then.



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rodgernbama

11-26-2012 19:19:45




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Gchase24, 11-26-2012 13:56:25  
I'm with you I'm tired of the union bashing too. It's seems the American people can't see the decline in wages and benefits and they kick the very people that are trying to limit that. CEO'S get big bonuses while laying off people or cutting salaries. If they were any kind of leader they'd take pay cuts and refuse raises. Hostess employees had already taken wage concessions. One example I saw was a guys salary was reduced from $47,000 to $25,000. Then there's no guarantee that these people still wouldn't loose their job.

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MF Poor

11-26-2012 17:41:21




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Gchase24, 11-26-2012 13:56:25  
SOME US companies are recording record profits. Others are recording record losses. My wife works for a US Defense contractor (who will remain nameless for obvious reasons) It's union and has been since 1941. They're in the midst of a final production run, When done, the plant will be scrapped out, and production moves "off shore". They have another plant in Georgia that started production in 1988. It's fully automated, non union, pays better than union plant here, and has a 550% higher profit margin according to company news letter. The plant located here had the option of re-negotiating union contract, and building a new automated plant. Union refused to budge. They (union officers) wouldn't even bring it to a vote by current employees. They effectively shot their foot clean off. Plant closes in 60 days. 335 jobs gone. Owners have decided not to invest in another US based plant for fear of putting all their proverbial eggs in one basket.

Stupid is as stupid does. I hope the union morons are proud of themselves. They've chased 72 years of American jobs right out of the country by something as simple as being pig headed and ignorant.

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Bret4207

11-27-2012 04:16:45




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to MF Poor, 11-26-2012 17:41:21  
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Very well said sir! What the simple minded seem to forget is that while unions were once looking out for the members and fighting big business, now the unions are looking out for their professional union people and ARE big business. Negotiation wages and benefits is one thing, expecting a company and it's owners to operate at a loss so the line workers can make $50.00 an hour with full medical , dental, eye glasses, 2-4 weeks vacation and a good retirement...that's nuts. If you want that get out of private industry and go to work for the gov't. Even then those days are waning.

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Tom in TN

11-26-2012 14:34:52




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Gchase24, 11-26-2012 13:56:25  
Gchase24,

I don't know about the negotiations at Hostess, but based on your statement, the bakers faced a reduction of 30% in pay. I know that I would have a hard time with a 30% reduction, but I would be willing to accept a 100% reduction.

Oh, wait. Maybe that wouldn't be too good either.

Tom in TN



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casenut1

11-26-2012 17:34:12




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to wisbaker, 11-26-2012 13:50:48  
fact-global warming is real. fact-we can not stop it.fact- it is a Natural cycle. fact- at the most we have sped it up just a little. in 1816 a volcano erupted and sent a cloud of ash around the world. there was no summer that year. tens of thousands died in Europe. there were no crops that year. in the states it spurred a surge of westward expansion. they were trying to get away from the cold. it was called the Little Ice-age.

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Rollie NE PA

11-26-2012 16:50:24




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to wisbaker, 11-26-2012 13:50:48  
Not to start an argument but there is no federal law that requires an employer to give a break or lunch period. That is something that is negotiated between employee and employer, whether union or non union.
If there are negotiated breaks, then there is a violation. State law may grant the breaks/lunch.
Check the E Laws Advisor web site, wage & hour section I to was a 20 year AFSCME member. They did not do much for our bargining unit, so I can't say much for them.

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Bob Huntress

11-26-2012 14:09:25




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to wisbaker, 11-26-2012 13:50:48  
I look at what the effects of government policy would be even if global warming were true. Would a system of taxing companies for exhaust gases make the world any cooler, Not hardly. It would merely take money from companies. I find green products are a scam, even if you believe in global warming. Several companies that collect extra money because their products are eco friendly only qualify to say this, because they contribute some of their extra charge to green enough charities. Their products often are no more green than anyone else's. Like you I figure that global warming is a scam, but even if it were real nothing government does to curb it has any hope of success.

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55 50 Ron

11-26-2012 14:36:03




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Bob Huntress, 11-26-2012 14:09:25  
wisbaker and Bob Huntress. You guys are right on. I agree 100%. Why can't we get our leaders to understand this common sense? Your comment about anything gov tries to curb this has no hope of success is SO TRUE. IF OR WHEN there may be any global warming, it will be a far bigger happening than any government can prevent. And lest we forget, government IS US and do any group of us feel qualified to tackle something that is only in God's realm of things??

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Bob Huntress

11-26-2012 13:36:03




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
Perhaps if the government allowed companies here to keep some of their profits, they would make more stuff here. I believe the official title for moving industry overseas is "Hope & Change".



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gtractorfan

11-26-2012 12:15:07




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Butch(OH), 11-26-2012 11:44:39  
News today says 112 people in a Bangledesh sewing factory burned to death. They were trapped, no emergency exit. As much as unions get criticized this is one thing they fought for a century ago...safer working conditions. It's sad the people in 3rd world countries get taken advantage of.



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MF Poor

11-26-2012 17:09:20




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to gtractorfan, 11-26-2012 12:15:07  
So let the useless unions go to Bangledesh and sponge off them for a while.



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Wile E

11-26-2012 13:17:06




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to gtractorfan, 11-26-2012 12:15:07  
The reason there are no emergency exits is cause they fear the employees stealing the goods. Even happens in the US at times.



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Chester5731

11-26-2012 13:01:17




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to gtractorfan, 11-26-2012 12:15:07  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see There are laws for that stuff now. Now all a union is good for is making the company go broke(think twinkie).



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buickanddeere

11-26-2012 13:51:13




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to Chester5731, 11-26-2012 13:01:17  
Unions make certain the OSHA laws are enforced otherwise employers will ignore the law.



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MSD

11-26-2012 20:25:02




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to buickanddeere, 11-26-2012 13:51:13  
I think OSHA does it's own enforcement. Ever been on a job site when they show up?



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Oliverguy

11-26-2012 18:46:22




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to buickanddeere, 11-26-2012 13:51:13  
Wrong, I own a non union company with 50 employees and we work harder at safety than 90% of the union companies we've worked along side. Just a plain wrong statement, sorry buddy.



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bg/mo

11-26-2012 16:29:16




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to buickanddeere, 11-26-2012 13:51:13  
not always so , our shop is non union and the first concern is saftey



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MF Poor

11-26-2012 17:11:16




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to bg/mo, 11-26-2012 16:29:16  
Now why would B&D care anything about reality or facts. He's managed to live this long without either in his everyday life.



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OSHA

11-26-2012 16:06:32




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to buickanddeere, 11-26-2012 13:51:13  
I recall you mentioned a problem with a overhead crane brake at your employment not working and the block crashing to the floor?



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NCWayne

11-26-2012 14:52:53




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to buickanddeere, 11-26-2012 13:51:13  
Our taxes pay for OSHA, and it's OSHA's job to enforce the laws on the books. If they need a union to force them to do it (((and I've known them to do inspections, and levy huge fines on just as many non union companies as union controlled companies))) then we have a huge problem with out tax money being wasted for something other than what it was taken from us for. That said, OSHA and company rules will never over ride the pure human stupidity. That one thing causes way to many accidents than anything else. Problem is that ultimately they get blamed on the company, instead of on the stupidity of the individual that caused said accident........

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Spade - IN

11-26-2012 14:00:05




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 Re: More U.S. made goes bye bye in reply to buickanddeere, 11-26-2012 13:51:13  
I'd have to disagree... I've never worked in a union environment but almost all of my employers have been rather uptight about complying with OSHA laws.

Unions did greats things for workers once upon a time, but IMHO that ended a long time ago - now they're just as greedy as the next corporation.



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