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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Question for you reloaders (gun)

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11-26-2012 06:31:35

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hey old ,get your problem figured out? years ago many rifles were converted in mainly south american countries to 308 or the nato round. trouble was barrels were made for the 7.65 round. this made them very inaccurate with common 308 dia folks simply unscrewed the 308 expander,and replaced it with 311.mike the expander on your will be the piece just above the decapping pin. what happens when you run a case in your die,decapper knocks out old primer,expander does not touch case on way case enters die body it sizes it down to below proper size.expander plug sizes it to proper size when you remove case from die.WHY it happens this way is so INSIDE of case is correct size,outside of case neck may vary some depending on thickness of brass.changeing brass wont probably help you unless brass has been reduced in size in the neck for some reason. the only thing then that will cause this is if your prepping or outside neck turning your brass before it is resized. if you do this,die cannot push brass down far enough and expander plug wont even touch. start simply by micing your expander plug,bet youll find your problem there. by the way,,if this die came WITH your rifle,slug your barrel.its VERY VERY possible it has a 311/313 bore.literally thousands of them out there that do have. no problem with them,but many folks dont bother to slug their barrels if they have a 308 that wont shoot right.30 cal bullets have ranged over the years from .300 to just about any thing up to .315.most folks dont know that theres lots of 30 cal barrels out there that have a 307 bore also.301 is standard on many british 30 cal cartridges. supposed ly the 7.62 nato round standardized this.and is why many folks recommend you do NOT shoot nato rounds in a gun marked 308 winchester.shooting one of course in a rifle with a larger bore,is normally safe. but what would happen if you shot one in a old martini cadet rifle for instance that simply had a 308 reamer ran into it,with a 301 bore? probably the martini action could handle it,but maybe not also.the confusion about the 308,and the 7.62 nato has caused about as many problems as any other cartridge bar none.

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11-26-2012 08:35:24

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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to jackinok, 11-26-2012 06:31:35  
This rifle is pretty new as in bought just this year at Wal-Mart. As for figuring it out yet no I have not but sure does seem to be a case of cheap thin brass since I can size 30/06 with the 308 die and that works

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11-26-2012 10:13:30

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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-26-2012 08:35:24  
is this actually a collet die? if so and its actually a lee,setup is absolutly critical.IT WILL NOT work if you set shoulder back even .001 too far or its the least amount long.since it uses the shoulder of the case to work the fact they are very hard too use correctly but when you do get them setup they work very well.two things i would check,first make sure crimping die is absolutly clean and i do mean spotlessly clean.collet simply will not close far enough with one speck of dirt or crud in grooves. next make absolutely certain you have the decapping resizing die set up absolutely perfect.ANY variation in the shoulder spacing will cause bullets to be crimped less.if your absolutly POSITIVE you have dies set right,you may have to buy a collet for a 307 size bullet.the idea behind a collet die is simply it crimps the case to the bullet,theoreticaly keeping it more centered in the bore.if your checking bullet fit just after youve ran case through the sizing die ,bullet wont be as tight as on other dies.its only tight when collet crimps case on bullet itself.the sizing dies only resizes the case enough to hold bullet until collet crimps case neck. personally,i dont really care for their collet dies,just too hard to setup and use if you load for various calibers.if you were reloading simply for one rifle and had your loader setup for that they work good.years ago when i was target shooting i had two presses setup one held the sizing die,one held the other.i neck sized only and the collet bullet crimp die was setup and never moved. what you may try is simply turning die down in press about 1/4 turn at a time. bullet doesnt HAVE to be crimped real tight,in fact it raises pressures to do so.idealy you would have bullet just held tight enough it would stay in place during recoil,while giving consistant ignition with your chosen powder.really slow burning powders generally require more bullet friction than a faster burning powder for consistant ignition and pressures.

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11-26-2012 10:22:32

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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to jackinok, 11-26-2012 10:13:30  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

I asked that question early on and even sent a link to the collet dies. No answer back.

He has mentioned removing the expander but one can remove the mandrel in a collet die also.

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11-26-2012 13:08:37

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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-26-2012 10:22:32  
I tried to go to that link but being on dial up I gave up after 10 minutes and it not loading

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11-26-2012 16:54:37

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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-26-2012 13:08:37  

old said: (quoted from post at 18:08:37 11/26/12) I tried to go to that link but being on dial up I gave up after 10 minutes and it not loading

Sorry, did not know you were on dial up.

Can you tell us if it is a collet die or a standard die.

I am not trying to jerk your chain here, just trying to understand what equipment you have. Post a pic of the die.

By the way, 40 years of reloading most calibers, and NRA certified reloading instructor here.

Do not want to give the wrong advice on reloading. As others have said the collet die is a whole different animal.

The fact you can put a 30-06 case in and resize it fine suggests bad brass or the die is set wrong as both have the same neck dimensions.
This post was edited by kevinj54 at 16:55:11 11/26/12.

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11-26-2012 17:23:05

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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-26-2012 16:54:37  
Ya have no idea which die is which. Been doing reloading off and on for 25 plus years but do it as a hobby for my own guns and a few for friend. All I know about this 308 die is that it came as a set of the common lee dies. One is the sizing die and the depriming all in one and the other is to seat the bullet when filled with powder. I have in the past done 7.62X54 Russian 7.62X39 Russian as in SKS ammo. 3006 and 44mag On all but he 44mag and SKS I use the IMR 4350 and the 44 Hercules 2400 and the SKS I use the IMR4198. So I have been around reloading for a long time but just do not do a whole lot of it. I might sit and do say a few hundred rounds then not do any for a year or more. But since I have a few more guns now figure it is time to start loading more up just in case I find I need it

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