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Tool Talk Discussion Forum

Re: Question for you reloaders (gun)

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MarkB_MI

11-23-2012 18:50:59
75.219.95.28



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By "308" I assume you mean .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO. Is this by any chance a Lee Collet Die? I'm not real familiar with the collet die, but they don't work like a regular sizing die. Most dies size the neck undersize, then the expander opens it back up. The collet die squeezes the neck around a mandrel; looking at the instructions on-line it looks like you need to adjust the die so it bottoms out solidly at the end of the stroke without camming over.

From the instructions:

"ADJUSTMENT FOR LEE PRESSES
Screw the sizing die in until it contacts the shell holder, plus one turn more. Run a case into the die. You will feel the primer being extracted, then the lever will come to an abrupt stop. At this point, the lever must be pushed firmly (min. 25 lbs.) to close the collet and size the neck. Extra bullet grip can be obtained by screwing the die in an additional quarter-turn.

"Other brands of presses that toggle or snap over center at the end of the stroke provide no feel and can damage the collet neck sizing die if adjusted as above. We suggest the die be screwed in until the die contacts the shell holder, plus 2 FULL TURNS This will prevent the press from toggling over center and give the operator feel of the collet closing."

Some folks swear by the Lee Collet die. I see no advantage to it. I've switched to the RCBS X-die for my M14; it's supposed to give much longer brass life than standard full-length sizing dies.

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Rich_WI

11-24-2012 16:00:49
50.50.77.31



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-23-2012 18:50:59  
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You are not suppose to use a neck sizing die for use in autoloaders. For bolt guns though (and pumps, single shots, levers etc.) the Lee collet dies are the bomb-diggity. No case lube needed, for that alone its worth the money for the dies. I love them for case life though. Cases last FOREVER when you just neck size cases. Not as huge of a deal on common calibers but on less common or odd calibers, it makes the dies worth their weight in gold.



Old, I cant tell exactally what the problem is that you are having but I am betting the dies are not set up right. Sounds like they are not being sized at all. Lee has info on thier website though. http://leeprecision.com/instructions.html and http://leeprecision.com/help-videos.html. You can also call them, they usually have somebody available that can talk you through a problem. http://leeprecision.com/frequently-asked-questions.html.

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old

11-25-2012 08:34:59
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to Rich_WI, 11-24-2012 16:00:49  
I have tried all sorts of adjustments and no matter what I can slip a bullet in by hand and then pull it back out real easy with a pair of pliers which I know is not right. I plan to replace the die set since it is only around $30 or so and or maybe just replace the sizing die and not the bullet seater



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kevinj54

11-25-2012 09:27:31
50.36.191.42



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-25-2012 08:34:59  
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Is this a collet die or a die with expander??? If the brass has thin necks then some dies will not pull it in enough.



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old

11-25-2012 09:42:42
209.86.226.34



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-25-2012 09:27:31  
No sure of your terms. This die removes the primer and also sizes the brass. It has a part that fits in the brass and I guess pulls it up words but as I said is not forming it so the bullet will sit tight enough to be shot. It is a Lee 308W-82



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kevinj54

11-25-2012 10:05:46
50.36.191.42



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-25-2012 09:42:42  

old said: (quoted from post at 14:42:42 11/25/12) No sure of your terms. This die removes the primer and also sizes the brass. It has a part that fits in the brass and I guess pulls it up words but as I said is not forming it so the bullet will sit tight enough to be shot. It is a Lee 308W-82


Can you post a pic?? You did say Lee die at some point and they make a collet die which has a special set up.

Look at this link......

http://leeprecision.com/collet-dies-308w.html
This post was edited by kevinj54 at 15:22:09 11/25/12 3 times.

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old

11-26-2012 17:45:28
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-25-2012 10:05:46  
Tried your link again and this time it want in 2 minutes . What I have is not a collect type die or at least does not look like what is pictured



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kevinj54

11-27-2012 05:29:17
99.39.189.166



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-26-2012 17:45:28  
Sounds like you have a standard die. I am still confused.

If it will pull the neck down on a 30-06 it WILL pull the neck down on a 308 as the are the same.

You need to mic out the neck wall thickness to see if it is poor brass.

Also some dies pull the brass down smaller than others.

I have seen some shell holders that limit case insertion so you may want to try a different shell holder.

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old

11-27-2012 07:47:05
209.86.226.19



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-27-2012 05:29:17  
I am thinking this Winchester brass is cheap as in Wal-Mart stuff and maybe well be the whole problem. Never ran into a problem like this with any other die set I have



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old

11-25-2012 10:23:26
209.86.226.34



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-25-2012 10:05:46  
I have tried all the set up things as per the instructions and even tried a 3006 die I have and can not get the brass it size correctly but use a 3006 brass and it does size as it should. I got this 308 die with the reloader so who knows what may have been done to it



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MarkB_MI

11-25-2012 15:14:12
75.219.136.18



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-25-2012 10:23:26  
You cannot size 308 brass with a 30-06 die because the die will bottom out before the case neck is sized.

You CAN neck size 30-06 brass in a CONVENTIONAL 308 die. But it seems apparent that you have a collet die, not a conventional die.

If you still believe you have a conventional die, simply remove the expander and size a case. If you can insert a bullet into the neck, then either the sizer is bad or your brass has unusually thin necks. You shouldn't have thin necks with once-fired brass, but with brass of unknown origin there's a possibility the case necks have been reamed or turned to accommodate an undersize chamber. (Turning case necks is SOP for benchrest shooters.) I find it hard to believe your sizing die is bad, but after all we ARE talking about a Lee "Precision" product.

Just so we're on the same page, a conventional sizing die sizes the case neck in two operations: During the downstroke, the sizer enters the oversize case neck, which is then squeezed undersize by the die body. Then, on the upstroke the expander is pulled through the now undersize case neck, expanding it to the appropriate i.d.

A collet die sizes by squeezing the case neck between the body and mandrel. Naturally the case neck will spring back after sizing, so the mandrel has to be a bit undersize.

It seems you're not the only one to have problems with the Lee Wonder T*rd Collet Die; see the link below:

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old

11-25-2012 18:16:28
209.86.226.27



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-25-2012 15:14:12  
This brass is once fired as in shot only one time Winchester brass. I have tried it with the expander and with out the expander and still not right as in bullet almost falls out. Thinking about try to do a little 30/30 brass and see if I run into the same thing. Ya 30/30 is a die set I want to get but have not since the last set I had was stolen form me by a guy who said hey let me use your die then he booked with it and have not seen him in 15 plus years

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kevinj54

11-25-2012 11:05:01
50.36.191.42



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to old, 11-25-2012 10:23:26  
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So if you run a o6 into the 308 die it sizes the neck properly???

That take you back to thin or hardened brass for the 308



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old

11-25-2012 18:23:03
209.86.226.27



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to kevinj54, 11-25-2012 11:05:01  
Not sure I tried the 06 in the 308 die guess I will double check that to be sure and also will try a few 30/30 in the 308 die and see what happens. This brass is Winchester once fired brass so maybe this stuff is new junk brass??



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MarkB_MI

11-24-2012 16:40:29
75.219.136.18



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to Rich_WI, 11-24-2012 16:00:49  
"You are not suppose to use a neck sizing die for use in autoloaders."

Rich, the X-Die IS a full-length sizer. But, like the collet die, it uses a mandrel instead of an expander, and the mandrel pushes down on the case mouth during sizing to prevent the case from stretching. The M14 has an oversize chamber, and using a regular full-length sizer you're lucky to get three loads out of a case. Some guys claim to get a dozen loads per case with the X-Die.

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Rich_WI

11-24-2012 17:48:01
50.50.77.31



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-24-2012 16:40:29  
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Mark, I wasnt talking about an x-die, I was talking about a Lee collet die and then I explained the many advantages of them.
If you are getting a max of 3 loading out of a case, you are setting it back too far. You dont need an x-die to increase case life, you just need to properly set up a full length sizing die. If your chamber is long, just properly resize the cases and keep them with that gun. Sure, the reloaded rounds likely wont fit in a standard chambered gun but you will get decent case life. All it costs is keeping your ammo and guns seperate, I think thats a pretty cheap price.

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old

11-24-2012 08:51:17
209.86.226.32



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 Re: Question for you reloaders (gun) in reply to MarkB_MI, 11-23-2012 18:50:59  
I use an old Lee press, I have a pair of them. The die I am using came with the one press when I bought it years ago but never did any 308W at the time but now have a friend who hunts with a 308 so now have a reason to reload 308W. The die is a Lee 308W-82 I will try that adjustment and see what happens and also try sizing a couple with out the expander in the die to see if that helps any. I wonder if since it has not been used in forever if rust maybe where the problem is since I know the die showed signs of rust in and on it

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