Question for you reloaders (gun)

old

Well-known Member
Well a reloader is a tool right?? So I have dies for reloading 308 but it does not seem to size the brass correctly. I can drop a 308 bullet right down inside the brass after I have ran it through the die. It is sized so I can use a 311 bullet but that from what my reloader manuals says is not correct so what is wrong, maybe the die is wore out or what ???
Thank
 
Im no expert but I would pull the decapping rod assembly out. and measure the expander and see if it is the right size. If its not Im sure the company would send you the right one. Also do you have the die turned down in the press far enough? hth jstpa
 
I tried the expander from my 3006 die also and it will not size the neck to the correct size either so think something it odd with this brass or the gun that is shooting the bullets or some such odd problem
 
Sounds like the expander is too large. When you push the brass upward into the die, the neck is squeezed down, On the reverse - down stroke the expander bead pulls up through the neck, sizing it back to what should be a snug fit on the bullet. If that is too large, say .311 instead of .308, bullet will fit loosely. May be manufacturer out the wrong one in.

I like to use Lee neck sizing die, which uses a collet to squeeze the neck down against the center - anvil.

You can get some real expert answers on reloadbench.com - bulletin board.
 
This is Lee die by the way. It came with my re-loader so have no idea much about it. I have dies for 44 mag and 3006 etc and never had any problems but this one is odd. Thinking about buying a new die set for 308 but then this is for a fiend so not sure if it would be worth it in the long run
 
By "308" I assume you mean .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO. Is this by any chance a Lee Collet Die? I'm not real familiar with the collet die, but they don't work like a regular sizing die. Most dies size the neck undersize, then the expander opens it back up. The collet die squeezes the neck around a mandrel; looking at the instructions on-line it looks like you need to adjust the die so it bottoms out solidly at the end of the stroke without camming over.

From the instructions:

"ADJUSTMENT FOR LEE PRESSES
Screw the sizing die in until it contacts the shell holder, plus one turn more. Run a case into the die. You will feel the primer being extracted, then the lever will come to an abrupt stop. At this point, the lever must be pushed firmly (min. 25 lbs.) to close the collet and size the neck. Extra bullet grip can be obtained by screwing the die in an additional quarter-turn.

"Other brands of presses that toggle or snap over center at the end of the stroke provide no feel and can damage the collet neck sizing die if adjusted as above. We suggest the die be screwed in until the die contacts the shell holder, plus 2 FULL TURNS This will prevent the press from toggling over center and give the operator feel of the collet closing."

Some folks swear by the Lee Collet die. I see no advantage to it. I've switched to the RCBS X-die for my M14; it's supposed to give much longer brass life than standard full-length sizing dies.
 
Old something is WRONG. I think you need to get a good mike and check the expander and also your bullet. Unless I am wrong it can only be one of two things wrong, the expander is too big, or you have 284 dia. bullets, instead of 308 dia. Let us know what you find out.

Bob
 
As designed the dies should bring the neck down too small and then the expander should bring it back up to proper size. So your problem could either be the sizer isn't bring the neck down far enough or the expander ball is too large. First mike the expander to see what size it is. .311 is a very popular size for cast bullets in 30 cal. Jacketed bullets are .308. The expander should be very close to just under bullet diameter. I would remove the expander and size a case. It should be too tight to start a bullet in, or at least be very difficult. If not the brass is either very thin or the die is out of spec.
 
I had the same problem with my Lee 3006 expander. I just kept grinding it down until the bullet felt like it had a snug fit. I would then follow up with a factory crimp die. Been using it like that for over 20 years.

Jim
 

Try a different lot of brass. Or remove expander plug and see how the bullet fit is after resizing only.

KEH
 
Are you full length sizing the case? A buddy of mine was having the same problem and I found he was not setting up the sizing die correctly.
 
I do not have a set of mikes but do have a caliper and just measured the expander and it looks to be right at 308. I will try to size a couple of the brass with out the expander and see what happens
 
I just measured the bullets I am using Hornady #3031 30CAL 150GR .308 Spore Point. Do not have a set of mikes and if I did would not know how to read them. The bullet does in fact measure with calipers right at .307 but used them in 3006 brass and never had any problems
 
I use an old Lee press, I have a pair of them. The die I am using came with the one press when I bought it years ago but never did any 308W at the time but now have a friend who hunts with a 308 so now have a reason to reload 308W. The die is a Lee 308W-82 I will try that adjustment and see what happens and also try sizing a couple with out the expander in the die to see if that helps any. I wonder if since it has not been used in forever if rust maybe where the problem is since I know the die showed signs of rust in and on it
 
(quoted from post at 21:50:59 11/23/12)Some folks swear by the Lee Collet die. I see no advantage to it. I've switched to the RCBS X-die for my M14; it's supposed to give much longer brass life than standard full-length sizing dies.

You are not suppose to use a neck sizing die for use in autoloaders. For bolt guns though (and pumps, single shots, levers etc.) the Lee collet dies are the bomb-diggity. No case lube needed, for that alone its worth the money for the dies. I love them for case life though. Cases last FOREVER when you just neck size cases. Not as huge of a deal on common calibers but on less common or odd calibers, it makes the dies worth their weight in gold.




Old, I cant tell exactally what the problem is that you are having but I am betting the dies are not set up right. Sounds like they are not being sized at all. Lee has info on thier website though. http://leeprecision.com/instructions.html and http://leeprecision.com/help-videos.html. You can also call them, they usually have somebody available that can talk you through a problem. http://leeprecision.com/frequently-asked-questions.html.
 
"You are not suppose to use a neck sizing die for use in autoloaders."

Rich, the X-Die IS a full-length sizer. But, like the collet die, it uses a mandrel instead of an expander, and the mandrel pushes down on the case mouth during sizing to prevent the case from stretching. The M14 has an oversize chamber, and using a regular full-length sizer you're lucky to get three loads out of a case. Some guys claim to get a dozen loads per case with the X-Die.
 
(quoted from post at 19:40:29 11/24/12) "You are not suppose to use a neck sizing die for use in autoloaders."

Rich, the X-Die IS a full-length sizer. But, like the collet die, it uses a mandrel instead of an expander, and the mandrel pushes down on the case mouth during sizing to prevent the case from stretching. The M14 has an oversize chamber, and using a regular full-length sizer you're lucky to get three loads out of a case. Some guys claim to get a dozen loads per case with the X-Die.

Mark, I wasnt talking about an x-die, I was talking about a Lee collet die and then I explained the many advantages of them.

If you are getting a max of 3 loading out of a case, you are setting it back too far. You dont need an x-die to increase case life, you just need to properly set up a full length sizing die. If your chamber is long, just properly resize the cases and keep them with that gun. Sure, the reloaded rounds likely wont fit in a standard chambered gun but you will get decent case life. All it costs is keeping your ammo and guns seperate, I think thats a pretty cheap price.
 
Why not just use brass you have fired in your rifle? It will be sized perfectly. (Fireforming)Reprime, check length, powder, insert bullet. How many do you need when you go deer hunting? Three?
Just remember to eject the empties into your hand after you drop that monster buck.
One box of new shells should provide you a lifetime of brass for hunting, and no dies needed.
 
I have tried all sorts of adjustments and no matter what I can slip a bullet in by hand and then pull it back out real easy with a pair of pliers which I know is not right. I plan to replace the die set since it is only around $30 or so and or maybe just replace the sizing die and not the bullet seater
 
(quoted from post at 13:34:59 11/25/12) I have tried all sorts of adjustments and no matter what I can slip a bullet in by hand and then pull it back out real easy with a pair of pliers which I know is not right. I plan to replace the die set since it is only around $30 or so and or maybe just replace the sizing die and not the bullet seater

Is this a collet die or a die with expander??? If the brass has thin necks then some dies will not pull it in enough.
 
No sure of your terms. This die removes the primer and also sizes the brass. It has a part that fits in the brass and I guess pulls it up words but as I said is not forming it so the bullet will sit tight enough to be shot. It is a Lee 308W-82
 
(quoted from post at 14:42:42 11/25/12) No sure of your terms. This die removes the primer and also sizes the brass. It has a part that fits in the brass and I guess pulls it up words but as I said is not forming it so the bullet will sit tight enough to be shot. It is a Lee 308W-82

Can you post a pic?? You did say Lee die at some point and they make a collet die which has a special set up.

Look at this link......

http://leeprecision.com/collet-dies-308w.html
 
Read my post again. If you use only brass from your rifle, and don't intend to shoot the reloads in another rifle you don't need to FL resize it. Just neck size, or depending on the rifle chamber, not even that. Try seating a bullet in a spent brass with no resizing at all. If it's pretty good then simply seat bullets and crimp.
 
I have tried all the set up things as per the instructions and even tried a 3006 die I have and can not get the brass it size correctly but use a 3006 brass and it does size as it should. I got this 308 die with the reloader so who knows what may have been done to it
 
(quoted from post at 15:23:26 11/25/12) I have tried all the set up things as per the instructions and even tried a 3006 die I have and can not get the brass it size correctly but use a 3006 brass and it does size as it should. I got this 308 die with the reloader so who knows what may have been done to it

So if you run a o6 into the 308 die it sizes the neck properly???

That take you back to thin or hardened brass for the 308
 
You cannot size 308 brass with a 30-06 die because the die will bottom out before the case neck is sized.

You CAN neck size 30-06 brass in a CONVENTIONAL 308 die. But it seems apparent that you have a collet die, not a conventional die.

If you still believe you have a conventional die, simply remove the expander and size a case. If you can insert a bullet into the neck, then either the sizer is bad or your brass has unusually thin necks. You shouldn't have thin necks with once-fired brass, but with brass of unknown origin there's a possibility the case necks have been reamed or turned to accommodate an undersize chamber. (Turning case necks is SOP for benchrest shooters.) I find it hard to believe your sizing die is bad, but after all we ARE talking about a Lee "Precision" product.

Just so we're on the same page, a conventional sizing die sizes the case neck in two operations: During the downstroke, the sizer enters the oversize case neck, which is then squeezed undersize by the die body. Then, on the upstroke the expander is pulled through the now undersize case neck, expanding it to the appropriate i.d.

A collet die sizes by squeezing the case neck between the body and mandrel. Naturally the case neck will spring back after sizing, so the mandrel has to be a bit undersize.

It seems you're not the only one to have problems with the Lee Wonder T*rd Collet Die; see the link below:
Collet die adjustment on Firing Line forum
 
This brass is once fired as in shot only one time Winchester brass. I have tried it with the expander and with out the expander and still not right as in bullet almost falls out. Thinking about try to do a little 30/30 brass and see if I run into the same thing. Ya 30/30 is a die set I want to get but have not since the last set I had was stolen form me by a guy who said hey let me use your die then he booked with it and have not seen him in 15 plus years
 
Not sure I tried the 06 in the 308 die guess I will double check that to be sure and also will try a few 30/30 in the 308 die and see what happens. This brass is Winchester once fired brass so maybe this stuff is new junk brass??
 
I do not have a crimp die and yes used in only the one gun and not even my gun but a friends. Can not just resize as such since I have to pop out the primer and no matter it is not working so dies wrong or thin brass
 
308 Winchester full length 2-die set prices at midwayusa.com:

Redding 38.49
Hornady 32.99
RCBS 29.99
Lee 18.49

Could there be a connection?
 
hey old ,get your problem figured out? years ago many rifles were converted in mainly south american countries to 308 or the nato round. trouble was barrels were made for the 7.65 round. this made them very inaccurate with common 308 dia bullets.so folks simply unscrewed the 308 expander,and replaced it with 311.mike the expander on your die.it will be the piece just above the decapping pin. what happens when you run a case in your die,decapper knocks out old primer,expander does not touch case on way in.as case enters die body it sizes it down to below proper size.expander plug sizes it to proper size when you remove case from die.WHY it happens this way is so INSIDE of case is correct size,outside of case neck may vary some depending on thickness of brass.changeing brass wont probably help you unless brass has been reduced in size in the neck for some reason. the only thing then that will cause this is if your prepping or outside neck turning your brass before it is resized. if you do this,die cannot push brass down far enough and expander plug wont even touch. start simply by micing your expander plug,bet youll find your problem there. by the way,,if this die came WITH your rifle,slug your barrel.its VERY VERY possible it has a 311/313 bore.literally thousands of them out there that do have. no problem with them,but many folks dont bother to slug their barrels if they have a 308 that wont shoot right.30 cal bullets have ranged over the years from .300 to just about any thing up to .315.most folks dont know that theres lots of 30 cal barrels out there that have a 307 bore also.301 is standard on many british 30 cal cartridges. supposed ly the 7.62 nato round standardized this.and is why many folks recommend you do NOT shoot nato rounds in a gun marked 308 winchester.shooting one of course in a rifle with a larger bore,is normally safe. but what would happen if you shot one in a old martini cadet rifle for instance that simply had a 308 reamer ran into it,with a 301 bore? probably the martini action could handle it,but maybe not also.the confusion about the 308,and the 7.62 nato has caused about as many problems as any other cartridge bar none.
 
You can deprime with a large nail with point filed smooth and a small socket. Or buy the little depriming kit from Lee for $5.
 
This rifle is pretty new as in bought just this year at Wal-Mart. As for figuring it out yet no I have not but sure does seem to be a case of cheap thin brass since I can size 30/06 with the 308 die and that works
 
Well the Lee set I have is at least 20 year old so who knows what has or has not been done to it since I got them used as was the press I have. The first press I payed around $40 for and the 2nd one I got at auction for $7. I plan to try some 30/30 brass in the 308 and see if that size's right and if it does then I can pretty much figure the 308 brass is the cheap thin stuff
 
Yes but that does not get my die to work as it should and that is the whole point to this question. I have the die so I expect it to work as it should or it is just a piece that will work as a cat fish sinker
 
is this actually a collet die? if so and its actually a lee,setup is absolutly critical.IT WILL NOT work if you set shoulder back even .001 too far or its the least amount long.since it uses the shoulder of the case to work the collet.in fact they are very hard too use correctly but when you do get them setup they work very well.two things i would check,first make sure crimping die is absolutly clean and i do mean spotlessly clean.collet simply will not close far enough with one speck of dirt or crud in grooves. next make absolutely certain you have the decapping resizing die set up absolutely perfect.ANY variation in the shoulder spacing will cause bullets to be crimped less.if your absolutly POSITIVE you have dies set right,you may have to buy a collet for a 307 size bullet.the idea behind a collet die is simply it crimps the case to the bullet,theoreticaly keeping it more centered in the bore.if your checking bullet fit just after youve ran case through the sizing die ,bullet wont be as tight as on other dies.its only tight when collet crimps case on bullet itself.the sizing dies only resizes the case enough to hold bullet until collet crimps case neck. personally,i dont really care for their collet dies,just too hard to setup and use if you load for various calibers.if you were reloading simply for one rifle and had your loader setup for that they work good.years ago when i was target shooting i had two presses setup one held the sizing die,one held the other.i neck sized only and the collet bullet crimp die was setup and never moved. what you may try is simply turning die down in press about 1/4 turn at a time. bullet doesnt HAVE to be crimped real tight,in fact it raises pressures to do so.idealy you would have bullet just held tight enough it would stay in place during recoil,while giving consistant ignition with your chosen powder.really slow burning powders generally require more bullet friction than a faster burning powder for consistant ignition and pressures.
 
(quoted from post at 15:13:30 11/26/12) is this actually a collet die? if so and its actually a lee,setup is absolutly critical.IT WILL NOT work if you set shoulder back even .001 too far or its the least amount long.since it uses the shoulder of the case to work the collet.

I asked that question early on and even sent a link to the collet dies. No answer back.

He has mentioned removing the expander but one can remove the mandrel in a collet die also.
 
I tried to go to that link but being on dial up I gave up after 10 minutes and it not loading
 
(quoted from post at 18:08:37 11/26/12) I tried to go to that link but being on dial up I gave up after 10 minutes and it not loading

Sorry, did not know you were on dial up.

Can you tell us if it is a collet die or a standard die.

I am not trying to jerk your chain here, just trying to understand what equipment you have. Post a pic of the die.

By the way, 40 years of reloading most calibers, and NRA certified reloading instructor here.

Do not want to give the wrong advice on reloading. As others have said the collet die is a whole different animal.

The fact you can put a 30-06 case in and resize it fine suggests bad brass or the die is set wrong as both have the same neck dimensions.
 
Ya have no idea which die is which. Been doing reloading off and on for 25 plus years but do it as a hobby for my own guns and a few for friend. All I know about this 308 die is that it came as a set of the common lee dies. One is the sizing die and the depriming all in one and the other is to seat the bullet when filled with powder. I have in the past done 7.62X54 Russian 7.62X39 Russian as in SKS ammo. 3006 and 44mag On all but he 44mag and SKS I use the IMR 4350 and the 44 Hercules 2400 and the SKS I use the IMR4198. So I have been around reloading for a long time but just do not do a whole lot of it. I might sit and do say a few hundred rounds then not do any for a year or more. But since I have a few more guns now figure it is time to start loading more up just in case I find I need it
 
Tried your link again and this time it want in 2 minutes . What I have is not a collect type die or at least does not look like what is pictured
 

Sounds like you have a standard die. I am still confused.

If it will pull the neck down on a 30-06 it WILL pull the neck down on a 308 as the are the same.

You need to mic out the neck wall thickness to see if it is poor brass.

Also some dies pull the brass down smaller than others.

I have seen some shell holders that limit case insertion so you may want to try a different shell holder.
 
I am thinking this Winchester brass is cheap as in Wal-Mart stuff and maybe well be the whole problem. Never ran into a problem like this with any other die set I have
 

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