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Discussion Forum

7014 v. 6013 welding rods

Author 
Matthew

01-26-2003 19:05:46
65.171.126.49



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I am currently a student in a welding class at a technical college. I am beginning my stick courses and exploring different rods. I have heard that the 7014 is an over-all excellent rod and was wondering about its characteristics such as the best current to use. I know that the 7018 is best for DC but can be purchased for AC but I am afraid the AC version may be compromising some of the strength of the original DC version. This may not be ture though. I use 7018 on stuff that requires that extra strength and have a DC welder, but I buy the AC version because of the easier arc restarts. Any information on this would be greatly appreciated, but I kind of got off track. What I really want help in is convincing my friend that my 7014 is better than his 6013 which is the only rod that he will buy. Now if anyone disagrees with this, I welcome their comments. I am just basing the question on what I have heard and am going to purchase some 7014's tomorrow to see what I can figure out myself. Some might say this is what I should have done in the first place, but I am inexperienced and know that there are a whole lot of people out there that know more than I do. In advance, Thanks for the time and help everyone. Any comments, information, opinions, or advice is welcome and appreciated.

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BFO

01-29-2003 07:48:22
206.172.191.138



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 Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-26-2003 19:05:46  
The only comment that I'd like to make, because I really can't add anything to the good advice that you've recieved, is the retarting problem using 7018. Now I've mentioned on this board before about Lincoln's Excalibur, and I'll give them another plug. I just burned a box of 3/32", and maybe had half a dozen times where I had to hit the rod a second time to re-establish an arc. Now I've also used the MR (moisture resistant) rods of other makes and kept them in a sealed rod holder and such, but I keep coming back to the Excalibur, and subsequently use a few hundred pound a year.

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jttop@msn.com

02-02-2003 15:33:24
65.149.245.6



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 Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to BFO, 01-29-2003 07:48:22  
The 7014 rod is very easy to use so is the 6013
rod but thay do not have good penitration try a6011 rod and add a little heat the 7018 AC rod is hard to work but does a nise job



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densell

10-24-2003 21:15:25
198.81.26.198



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 Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to jttop@msn.com, 02-02-2003 15:33:24  
(as he laughs......)
I like the 70** rod series...... YES you may have to "HIT" the rod on the work or table or what ever to crack the "sheild" back to get an arc going again. BUT>>>> how a weld LOOK matters to most people. the 70** series weld is MUCH wetter because the HEAT keeps the metal molten better and the THICK sheild helps alot...... AT the price of having to "HIT" the rod to start up the arc again.
(I do gas, MIG, TIG and hardfacing with gas, TIG, MIG.......) each has it's unique advantages..........
TEST THEM ALL GUYS>>>>>>>>>>>>

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T_Bone

01-28-2003 10:24:32
65.57.36.135



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 Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-26-2003 19:05:46  
Hi Matthew,

You've asked some very good questions. Tom has suggested a very good website for techincal learning and alot of your questions would be best answered there as one answer leads to another good topic. You will benefit more there from your research.

In the home/commerical welding shop it would be best to pay attention to joint design, joint preperation, cleaning welds between passes, arc length, electrode angle, etc; than worrying about using 7014 or 6013. why? All are good electrodes and will certifiy so then it becomes what your comfortable with.

Example; I welded a 2" square solid steel hitch stem thats going to pull 20,000lb trailers on a regular basis that I welded with 6013. Am I concerned about the welds? absolutly not! as I took extreame care with joint design, joint preperation, cleaning welds between passes, arc length, electrode angle while making the welds which is more important than my electrode selection. I should add that I have 35yrs of extensive background in welding, metallurgy, engineering and the above example would not be for an inexperienced welder to make or design. Before I need my flame suit on, joint design played a major roll in the above weldment.

Although each electrode 7018,7014, 6013 has it's own charteristics all will do just fine for any type of home welding or most commerical welding. Techinicaly 7014 and 7018 will be the strongest as it's rated for 70,ooopsi tensil strength but I'll let you read about that.

Restarting 7018. Here's a trick that will help. When your done with the pass and going to restart the bead with the same rod, with two fingers break off the flux on the end of the rod. This will expose the metal tip making a restart very easy.

I've posted my e-mail addy for additional comments. I get too much spam to post it all the time.

T_Bone

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Skinner

01-29-2003 03:42:29
32.100.31.216



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 Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to T_Bone, 01-28-2003 10:24:32  
I hear all the time how 7018 should be kept in an oven or in a old fridge with a light bulb. I'm sure it's to keep moisture out, but what are the reasons. I always keep my 7018 in a plastic rod box in my shop outside, and use it all the time, I haven't noticed any problems, but I'm just a farmhand mud dobber, and don't do too much serious welding. I normally do use 6011 for the root and cap with 7018. By not keeping my rods in an oven, should I be worried about problems? Does it cause burning problems, or quality problems with the weld?

I sure wish I could learn how to use 7018 vertical. The slag always keeps me from seeing what I'm doing and I make a mess. I've go where I turn the heat down a little when switch from flat work and going to vertical which helps some. Any tips?

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T_Bone

01-29-2003 08:43:33
65.59.178.47



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 Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Skinner, 01-29-2003 03:42:29  
Hi Skinner,

Moister and 7018 don't mix, acutally all electrodes can be effected, and you can tell when the rod has to much moister when your get tinny pin holes in the surface of the weld and theres poping in the molten puddle. This would be the moister turning into steam leaving prosity with-in the weld and not only on the surface making a very weak weld.

To dry electrodes I have built a small 14"x14"x18" SM box and used a 100w light bulb, holds 200lbs of electrodes. This will produce about 275*f with the door closed and is enough to dry the electrodes over time.

Vertical welding is fairly easy to do once you get the hang of it. Electrode angle pays a very important roll, about 5* to 10*, 0* works best sometimes, and you need your head below the rod to see the weld puddle with a close arc length and a slightly faster travel speed.

Now most welders watch the "slag" in the molten puddle and not the molten puddle it's self and that causes the molten puddle to fall or the weld puddle will slump before the weldor moves the rod upward. Thats why we teach you to weld flat first so you can reconize the weld puddle from the slag. If you can see the difference in the weld puddle and the slag, then do not let the slag take your attenion away from the motlen puddle in the vertical position like it does to most weldors.

A vertical weave bead is made by starting a weld puddle then moving horzontial, 8 rod diameters max, then pause slightly to deposit more weld, move up 1/2 rod diameter, then back to the starting point. The horzontial move should be fairly fast so if the weld slumps in the center then your moving too slow. If the ends are under cut then your not pausing long enough at the corners. Taking a stratch awl making two vertical lines will help you keep the weld straight and uniform width.

The 8 times the rod diameter maxmium is so the slag does not cool before you return to deposit more metal.

My method of teaching is to have the welder try to move too fast, too slow, long arc length, short arc length, rod angle at 45*, at 5*, too many amps, too low of amps, etc: and pay close attention to the changes each makes in the weld. That way when you have a problem you will remember what caused that problem and you will know how to correct it. I reverse teach, "what makes a bad weld". If you know what makes a bad weld then you will know how to correct it when you make that mistake.

This is also where your plastic welding lens will fail you the most. You now have two weld puddles due to the distortion of the plastic lens. Which one is the true weld puddle?

T_Bone

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Skinner

01-31-2003 18:39:15
32.100.31.176



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to T_Bone, 01-29-2003 08:43:33  
Thanks for all the info TBone!



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Skinner

01-31-2003 18:39:14
32.100.31.176



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to T_Bone, 01-29-2003 08:43:33  
Thanks for all the info TBone!



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Scott Green

01-28-2003 16:41:48
66.133.135.70



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 Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to T_Bone, 01-28-2003 10:24:32  
T_Bone , I was wondering why you didn't post earlyer than you did. I'm thinking to myself , why isn't T_Bone replying to this post. Now I know why. I wouldn't let that bother me , if I were you. Everyone on this board knows of the knowledge and experience you have in this field. The person posting the question is looking for all the feedback they can get , from all the people they can get. EXAMPLE: take 5 people who know "EVERYTHING" about welding. That doesn't mean they think of everything when they reply. So , I don't know about everyone else , but I like to see your name on replies. If for no other reason , just to back someone elses answer. Lots of people reply to different postings. The person who originally posted the question has to distinguish right from wrong , or maybe. When a replyer is backed up by another replyer , it is reashuring to the poster.

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nick and caleb

10-30-2003 10:02:33
165.138.94.10



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 Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Scott Green, 01-28-2003 16:41:48  
i love the bigger rods like 7014 vs. the lil' 6013
they weld so smooth as like butter on a skillet it has a nice lubercated feeling when grazing ur finger across it i love 7014 welding rods thank the good lord for them



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nick welding boy 411 a.k.

11-04-2003 20:07:57
171.75.97.47



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to nick and caleb, 10-30-2003 10:02:33  
hey there its me a.k.a hot rod im here to tell u about the best of the best rod rammers out there my good ol' pal caleb and me weld to the extreme alright and we reckin' we like to use 7014 on contact metal see we noticed the 7014 is better rather than a wimppy 6013, so 70 psi is alot better when working on custom tractor work like the ford's and the john deer,we suggest to all you farmers who do tractor repair try out the 7014, and when postioning your rod stick it in at 90 degree angle and run that streamin hotpole down through there and chip that slag right off and you'll see a nicely fitted weld on your project and as you run your finger right down it you'll notice how nicely lubricated and smooth that weld really is and thats all i have to say about the 7014 rods your good ol' pal hot rod

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Matthew

01-28-2003 18:49:01
65.165.108.189



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 Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Scott Green, 01-28-2003 16:41:48  
I could not have said it better myself. I was thinking about the exact thing yesterday.



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T_Bone

01-28-2003 18:05:02
65.58.131.73



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 Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Scott Green, 01-28-2003 16:41:48  
Hi Scott,

Well from past experience on this forum, I've learned to hang back before posting as it seams when I make a comment on the question the other experienced welders will not reply after me and thats not just fair to the person asking the questions. There is alot of knowledgeable people on this forum that has just as much info to contribute as I do.

Also I have to wait until the pain lets me think so I don't make as many mistakes on my replys and sometimes that takes a few days. When I reply I like to give accurate info as I can.

I'm glad you enjoy learning and hope you also share your info.

T_Bone

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Matthew

01-28-2003 18:51:45
65.165.108.189



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to T_Bone, 01-28-2003 18:05:02  
I wish that everyone on this forum had that same attitude. I appreciate you sharing your experience with me and everyone else.



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Your Welcome****** T_Bone n/t

01-29-2003 08:45:05
65.59.178.47



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 Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-28-2003 18:51:45  
n/t



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Matthew

01-28-2003 14:17:30
65.171.127.36



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 Re: Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to T_Bone, 01-28-2003 10:24:32  
Thank you, T-bone, for your response and all the others who took time to express their opinion.



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Bluecloud

01-27-2003 21:10:04
216.248.124.30



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 Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-26-2003 19:05:46  
I was tought that 7014 was to be used on DC welders and 6013 was to be used on AC welders.



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david

01-27-2003 07:32:01
205.204.242.22



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 Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-26-2003 19:05:46  
Comparing 7014's and 6013's is a little like comparing apples to apples. Both are well suited to clean metal, down hand, shallow to moderate penetration. The 7014 is a little easier to use, has more slag (25% iron powder in the flux) so it takes a little longer arc to keep from sticking, hence most people need a little more amperage. I start my students off on 7014's with 1/4" metal. With all that said, I haven't actually used a 7014 to fix anything for the last 10 years. A 6011 is my preference, it's fast, easy to weld verticle or overhead (fast freeze), and penetrates rust, dirt, and paint. Both the 6013 and 7014 will tend to weld over the foreign material. I do use 6013's rarely if the metal is too thin for a 6011 and don't want to use a MIG (like outside with the wind blowing). Were I doing fabirication of new metal and did not have a MIG I would recommend the 7014 for inexperienced welders, my main complaint is the speed of burn compaired to the 6011's. Cse in point, last time I used a 7014 we were making tobacco baler press head frames out of new square tubing. It takes me 75 minutes to weld one with a 7014 and 45 minutes with a 6011. The comparable DC rod to the 6010. Neither rod is very forgiving, the 7014's and 6013's are.

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Scott Green

01-27-2003 01:17:00
66.133.135.194



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 Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-26-2003 19:05:46  
Hi Matthew , The two rods I use most in my home shop is 7014(1/8th) & 6013(3/32). Just happens to be the two you are talking about. I like the 7014 rod for all around welding of clean steel. I use it on AC , and DC-. Nice control , easy starts. I use 6013 in 3/32 for thinner metals , because that is what I read in my welding book. I run the 6013 on DC-. Because of my personal experience with the two rods , I would have to say that the 7014 is better than the 6013. And I do believe that the 7014 in a 3/32 rod , would weld just as thin material , if not thinner than the 6013 3/32 rod. I haven't tried it yet. But you can bet , the next time I buy welding rod , 7014 in a 3/32 rod will be on my list. I was doing some welding last weekend. I had a couple rods of 7018 , which were given to me. I started the project with the 7018. I don't like 7018 at all. I picked up the 7014 rod , and just started welding. What a difference. I would take 7014 rod over the others any day , as far as an all around rod goes. I don't have my welding rod in an oven. From what I understand , that is the secret to 7018. The 7014 sets out in the cold damp garage. I can just pick it up and start welding.

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Tom

01-26-2003 20:03:07
12.74.42.76



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 Re: 7014 v. 6013 welding rods in reply to Matthew, 01-26-2003 19:05:46  
The 7014 is my most used favorite rod. But do your research by going to Lincoln site, which tells you in great detail all about freeze, fill, freeze-fill, 60000, 70000, penetration characteristics, weld postion, and machine setting AC DC- DC+, and all kinds of other good stuff.



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