340 international utility backhoe will not start.

Need a electrical schematic for my 340 internation utility backhoe.
my issue was simply a broken bendix spring bolt, while reassembling, I repositioned the pos battery cable and when I tried to start it, the starter hesitated and a giant spark flew out from under the gas tank, First I put my heart back in its origional position, Then I put the cable back to its origional position and the started works really well but it will not start, and it always started so easy, according to my tester I am not getting any spark to the plugs, What did I do and how do I fix it.

Link to wiring diagram: https://cdn.compknowhow.com/carterandgruenewald/wiring_diagrams/IH 140-330-240-340.pdf

Hello po welcome to YT! How long was the tractor
setting since it was last ran? Was it outside? Looking at
the wiring diagram there is not much that can get
screwed up as far as wires go on the starter, unless
some rejuvenation has been going on. Especially since
you still have power to the ignition switch to energize
the solenoid on the starter. Before I got to frantic
about the starter wiring I would suggest you check for
spark out of the coil wire. Also look for moisture or
corrosion in the distributor cap.

Sounds like a wire went to ground, that's usually what causes a spark.

Disconnect the battery and start tracing wires near where you saw the spark. You will probably find a
pinched or mouse chewed wire that got against a ground and arced. If there was not a fuse on the circuit,
it may have burned the wire into. Or it may have taken out some other component like the ignition switch.

Do some careful examining of the wires. Even if the wire is melted to another, some careful separation of
the wires will usually reveal where each wire originally went, then it's just a matter of replacing the
damaged wires one at a time.

Thank you for the schematics, it is dark and cold outside currently and I can't wait to check it out, I have a procedure tomorrow and that is going to put me out for a little while. Just have to be patient.

The tractor ran quite well prior to the bolt issue on the bendix, It did rain for an entire day prior to trying to start it after the bolt fix, So I covered dis and coil and put a 100 watt light bulb under there for a entire day, then another day, but to no avail. I checked for spark with my homemade tester which consists of a good spark plug plugged into the sparkplug boot and grounding the threaded end to a good ground point, and watching for spark as I tried to start the engine, and there was no spark present, or any smoke at the exhaust but did manage to flood the engine.

I have ordered a new 4 way starter switch because I noticed it was sort of sticking prior to my issue, and then after the "big spark" it did not stick anymore, would not start either, I do plan on taking the wiring apart one wire at a time when installing the new switch and making sure there is no moisture or corrosion in the dis, I want to thank everyone who responded to my issue, I feel quite secure with the suggestions provided I will win this round.

Mr. Guru, another question, is it possible I destroyed the capacitor.

I do not know who you are referring to as ..Guru.. but
that is just a descriptive identification the forum plops
on you after x number of posts. I believe guru kicks in
at 2000. There is a topic section on here called
..Tractor Tales.. where people list off what they cooked
for dinner and talk about pets and all sorts of things
not connected with tractors, implements or even a task
associated with home improvement. So they may have
virtually no mechanical skills yet still be a Guru. I rarely
frequent that section, I enjoy sharing my mechanical
knowledge to help others with their problems. Wow,
that really went off track. What is a 4 way starter
switch? My guess is the ..starter solenoid.. is what you
are talking about. One other thing that may be helpful
to know is the tractor a 6 volt or 12 volt. Does it still
have the generator or has it been changed to an
alternator? And what do you mean by ..capacitor..?
There is a form of capacitor in the distributor it is
referred to as the ..condenser.. I would say it is very
unlikely you damaged it. Do you have an automotive
test light? One of those would be very helpful for
farther diagnoses. With out one I would suggest your
next step to determine if your ignition is providing
proper spark would be to use your test plug connected
to the coil wire that goes in the center of the cap. It is
not made to plug on a spark plug but you should be
able to slide the boot down and get it to hold the metal
terminal on the end of the coil wire against the metal
plug terminal on the end of the porcelain. Crank an see
if you have spark there. We will wait for a reply from
those findings.

What a great response, Here goes, the tractor has been at some point converted to a 12-volt system and I believe that is when it was taken to a Neg ground, The switch in question is probably not of original design and was added when the changeover was made. The tractor ran quite well up to the point of the broken bolt on the Bendix, I have no idea of the age, but the number on the block is 367727R1 which I think is for a 340 international utility. It is a old old backhoe with many and I mean many repairs, it is mostly welds on welds and that is what is keeping it together, I plan to use it for little jobs for me and friends, I don't think I could afford to replace all the hoses at one time, It was left to set out most of it life if I had to guess, It reminds me a little of me. I am trying to do right by it and get it back into a nice little working Maching. I am home but I will not be able to do anything for at least 3 weeks, due to the Hospital abuse.

Ok, I am back, yes I was referring to the condenser for the points, I never thought to check between the coil and the distributer. I really do not see a reason why I couldn't get some of these suggestions looked at before My hands off everything ends in 3 weeks, will keep you posted, Thanks

I am going to link an ignition troubleshooting process
for points ignitions. When I am diagnosing a points
ignition I rely heavily on a test light. First checking the
power to the coil from the key, if good then move on.
The next step is to test the terminal on the coil with the
wire to the distributor connected to it. It has to flash
on and off when the points open and close as with the
ignition on and the engine starter turning it over. Once
you get that it is an out an 85 percent or higher chance
that the tractor will run. If not then you have to drill
deeper into the rarer problems. Anyway, since you
have some time study on his trouble shooting guide.
John T point ignition troubleshooting

Blue Ribbon ignition repair manual

Holly smokes, I have been working on electrical ignitions for 70 years and wish I would have had access to this information, for me it was just past experience that ruled the day, sort of like hit or miss. It has seen me through, but more complicated circuits seems to have done me in.

SUCESS!! First off I want to thank all for your help and time, it was so nice out for a few hrs a couple of days, today included and with checking out the circuits, and replacing more then a few wires and connections and the installation of a new switch, my international 340 fired right up, "much to my surprise" I do admit to bypassing all auxiliary circuits, as I do not thing at my age I will be working after dark. All of you can feel good about your contributions to helping a old man get a old piece of equipment back into service.
Thanks again, Herbert

(quoted from post at 00:29:01 01/31/23)
SUCESS!! First off I want to thank all for your help and time, it was so nice out for a few hrs a couple of days, today included and with checking out the circuits, and replacing more then a few wires and connections and the installation of a new switch, my international 340 fired right up, "much to my surprise" I do admit to bypassing all auxiliary circuits, as I do not thing at my age I will be working after dark. All of you can feel good about your contributions to helping a old man get a old piece of equipment back into service.
Thanks again, Herbert

Click to expand...

Well, the engine has been doing just fine, then, It again refuses to start, I am getting 12 volts to the resister and 5.4 volts on the other side, and 5.4 volts out of the coil contact that goes to the center of the distributer, does this seem right? only 5.4 volts out of the coil? Is it possible the voltage regulator could be the problem?

(quoted from post at 00:29:01 01/31/23)
SUCESS!! First off I want to thank all for your help and time, it was so nice out for a few hrs a couple of days, today included and with checking out the circuits, and replacing more then a few wires and connections and the installation of a new switch, my international 340 fired right up, "much to my surprise" I do admit to bypassing all auxiliary circuits, as I do not thing at my age I will be working after dark. All of you can feel good about your contributions to helping a old man get a old piece of equipment back into service.
Thanks again, Herbert

Click to expand...

Well, the engine has been doing just fine, then, It again refuses to start, I am getting 12 volts to the resister and 5.4 volts on the other side, and 5.4 volts out of the coil contact that goes to the center of the distributer, does this seem right? only 5.4 volts out of the coil? Is it possible the voltage regulator could be the problem?

You did not look at the Blue Ribbon ignition manual I gave you in the link very close or there is a chance you do not understand what it is showing. On the first page it shows the blue secondary winding connecting to the red primary winding right below the positive terminal inside the coil. This is where the connection is made to show the reading you see on the high tension terminal where the coil wire plugs in. It connects because the high tension winding is just one fine wire wrapped many times and making its way back to the high tension terminal. Be careful doing this. If you leave your meter connected there and turn the key off there is a good chance the coil will emit a spark and burn out your meter. The voltage is not high there until power is removed from the primary winding. The quick collapse of the magnetic field of the primary winding is what induces the secondary winding to produce a high voltage spark to fire the plugs. What you need to look for is the voltage on the - or ..distributor side.. of the coil changing between the 12 volts when the points are open and nearly zero when they are closed. So in other words it should ..flash.. power.. no power.. as the engine is cranking opening and closing the points.
Edit: I was only guessing the engine was being cranked by the starter and not starting and running on its own since your question was about the coil. The starter is working right?

This post was edited by used red MN on 03/07/2023 at 07:37 pm.

Yes, I did read it but only understood it after your post, and all is well, With egg on my face, I found the issue, It was simply the point setting, I was under the impression they were to be .025 when in fact they are to be .020, And once again it is going gang busters. and once again, Thanks for all your help, I envy you for your knowledge, again Thanks.