Spark issue 1953 NAA

TXFordNAA

Member
Parked my NAA running fine for the winter and now no spark. It's still 6v pos ground. I found the voltage regulator was fried and I replaced it and installed new 6v battery as old one wouldn't hold charge...it was 5 years old so time anyway.

I polarized as instructed by touching the FLD wire to BAT at the VR. It sparked as it's supposed to do. I'm not getting spark at plugs still and no spark at coil wire at top of distributed. I checked wiring all way from coil to VR and continuity is good.

Using test light I noticed the FLD and ARM at the VR are hot, but the BAT isnt...not sure if this is correct. I am bewildered...the wire to coil isn't hot but not sure if it's supposed to be as it's a pos ground system. I can put test light on pos at battery and it lights up when touching the wire on coil that leads to ignition.

Guess my question is...is BAT at VR supposed to be negative? If not, what now. Points dont look too good but would that stop the spark? Just at a loss for what to replace it test next.
 
Most likely bad points. Could be a coincidence, or runing it with a low battery finished them off.

You should have battery voltage at the BAT terminal, checking from chassis ground to the BAT terminal.
Wiring Diagram
 
(quoted from post at 20:34:09 03/19/18) Most likely bad points. Could be a coincidence, or runing it with a low battery finished them off.

You should have battery voltage at the BAT terminal, checking from chassis ground to the BAT terminal.
Wiring Diagram

Clear on the points...i will change them and condenser. I assume that would shut down the Spark, right?

Also....the chassis ground is positive, so if I took test light to chassis or the pos side of bttry then test light will shine when touched to BAT on the VR. In other words, the BAT is negative at the VR...do I have that correct?

Simple system..just having hard time wrapping my head around it. Thanks very much for your response and help is much appreciated. I use this tractor and it's been faithful since I brought it back to life 15 years ago.
 

Bad points can kill spark. However.. The bat wire on the vreg should be hot.

Check your wiring. If the wire in bat at vreg isn't hot, chances are the key doesn't have power.
 

Ignition isn't hot...i was wondering since it's pos ground if BAT was supposed to be negative...which it is. Prior poster said it will test hot if tester set at the chassis, which is hot.

In short....i am either misunderstanding or getting some conflicting info. If I attach tester light to negative bttry post there's nothing at BAT on VR.....however the FLD and ARM are testing hot with same test. So all 3 should be hot?
 
"If I attach tester light to negative bttry post there's nothing at BAT on VR.....however the FLD and ARM are testing hot with same test. So all 3 should be hot?"

The negative battery post is connected to the BAT terminal of the regulator, so no, you won't get a reading with the test light there.

You will get a light checking to the FLD and ARM because they are giving feedback from the chassis ground.

When using the test light, connect the clip end to a chassis ground (or positive battery terminal), it will be less confusing that way.
 
(quoted from post at 00:02:15 03/20/18)
Ignition isn't hot...i was wondering since it's pos ground if BAT was supposed to be negative...which it is. Prior poster said it will test hot if tester set at the chassis, which is hot.

In short....i am either misunderstanding or getting some conflicting info. If I attach tester light to negative bttry post there's nothing at BAT on VR.....however the FLD and ARM are testing hot with same test. So all 3 should be hot?
ISUNDERSTANDING IS AIDED BY USE OF TERMS SUCH AS "HOT".. a NEGATIVE VOLTAGE IS JUST AS 'HOT' AS A POSITIVE VOLTAGE.
 

Misunderstanding.

Hot is in reference to ground. Ground isn't a polarity.

If your machine is positive ground, then the battery 'hot' post is negative.

The electrical potential is voltage differential. Positive or negative won't matter on the potential.
 
ding ding ding....I get it now and thanks. I need to quit trying to think about it and just attach the tester to the ground side
of the battery and start testing. If the light shines then it has power....this means the BAT terminal on the VR is powered.

Thanks to you all for getting me out of the fog. I will be swapping the points and condenser this evening and see what she does.
 

As a quick test, try this. pull some ultra fine sand paper thru the points, hit both sides. then pull some paper bag or typing paper thru.

use a jumper wire and wire from the non grounded battery post to the side of the coil that the wire from the key hits.. IE, the one that isn't going to the distribuitor.

use your test lamp to see if you have power there now. if yes.. see if you have spark.

if yes, and she starts, remove the jumper and turn the key on.. repeat test lamp for power, if yes, check for spark / start.

if yes, then the points were corroded.

the fine sand paper cleaned them, but reduced their life. Me? I'd run them till they could no longer be sanded and set, as you may have to re-sand them and clean more often and reset them since the hard protective coating has been removed. however.. if they work, and are already ruined, you might as well get your $ out of them. and just keep that new set you have on the shelf till needed.
 
You stand a 99% chance the points have cored and need to be cleaned real well. Common for them to cored from sitting over the winter
 
Will be addressing the points issue this evening and hooking the new battery back up, which means reflashing the polarity again. I didn't want to leave battery hooked up until I get the issue resolved to avoid making things worse. I will post the results later this evening or morning and thanks to everyone who responded.

Hopefully, it will be late tonight...if she fires up I have work to get done in the pasture.
 
Buy a simple points file they are cheap as in around a buck last time I got on. Or some emery cloth but if the you use the emery cloth also after use a piece of cardboard like the flap on the box point come in to clean off the grit that will be left behind by the emery cloth. Points corrode due to the fact that 99% of the time when you shut off and engine the points are closed so being closed they corrode
 
You don't need to polarize the generator every time the battery is connected.

As long as the polarity is kept the same, and it hasn't been sitting years, or the generator replaced, or jump started with reversed polarity, the polarity will hold almost indefinitely.
 
(quoted from post at 16:02:56 03/20/18) You don't need to polarize the generator every time the battery is connected.

As long as the polarity is kept the same, and it hasn't been sitting years, or the generator replaced, or jump started with reversed polarity, the polarity will hold almost indefinitely.
s he said, and not to mention that many "B"-type VRs are ruined by improper polarization technique where the field contacts see far, far excess current than designed for.
 
(quoted from post at 14:12:38 03/20/18)
(quoted from post at 16:02:56 03/20/18) You don't need to polarize the generator every time the battery is connected.

As long as the polarity is kept the same, and it hasn't been sitting years, or the generator replaced, or jump started with reversed polarity, the polarity will hold almost indefinitely.
s he said, and not to mention that many "B"-type VRs are ruined by improper polarization technique where the field contacts see far, far excess current than designed for.

And the battery is disconnected from the armature at shutdown anyway.
 
GOOD..got her to start after points installed and drained fuel line. BAD..she runs like hell unless choked which is another new issue. Can't get fuel to drain from bot carb plug
 
Drained rest of fuel...added sea foam and new fuel..gonna tear down carb and check plugs after I get beer.at least I got her driven to my shop from the field barn so I have light and all tools.
 

Clear...i pulled line at carb and it flows..pulled plug at bottom of carb and NO JOY. Sprayed carb cleaner thru bottom drain hole and still zero. I assume a stuck float or clogged jet. This has been odd as I rebuilt carb last season and I winterize fuel and fog motor before parking. It's not like I just turn it off and walk away.
 
Left the gas turned on and carb full of gas right?? Now days that means good chance you will have carb needle stuck due to gas going bad. When your going to park one for the winter best to turn gas off when you park it before you shut it off and then let it run till if dies that way carb is pretty well empty so float is down and needle is not up in the seated position
 

Actually nope...i had fuel line manure off at tank...i shut it off everyone and let it run old fuel out everyone I park it. .
 
In that case pull the line elbow out of the carb and make sure the elbow screen is not clogged. If it is open then turn the gas on pull the drain plug out and tap on the side of the carb a few times with the handle of a screw driver and see if that frees up the float. If it frees up your likely to be good to go if not time the open it up again
 
Not trying to wear y'all out but damnnnn.Removed carb and cleaned all openings,made new gaskets, checked air flow, fuel flow is good to carb. New Points set at .025 and good spark now.Fires up but have to keep choke pulled or it sputtered and dies..at a loss
 
(quoted from post at 20:26:23 03/20/18) Not trying to wear y'all out but damnnnn.Removed carb and cleaned all openings,made new gaskets, checked air flow, fuel flow is good to carb. New Points set at .025 and good spark now.Fires up but have to keep choke pulled or it sputtered and dies..at a loss

Stalls unless choked. ..i sst the new points at .025, replaced condensor, bttry is new, removed and cleaned carb, flushed fuel line and blew out with carb cleaner. The eblow screen was very dirty at carb and got it cleaned. At first the fuel line from tank wouldnt send fuel to carb but thats fixed afger cleaning line.

Also, the carb wouldnt drain any fuel with removing carb bowl drain...it now will flow good when tank valve opened. Tank screen cleaned at valve and seems to get good fuel. Good spark...will fire up but dies unlezs choked continously.

Will try changing gap at points frim 025 to 015 and see what happens...this is a new prob i didnt have before. Again...its a 53 NAA with 6v pos grnd. Also dumped some sea foam...no change after carv tear down eventhough i now have good fuel flow. Still needs choked continously.
 
"made new gaskets'. Sounds like you have an air leak or didn't clean all passages well enough.
 
Yeah - I will start over when i get home this afternoon. I think i will try starting and spraying WD40 to see if i can find any
vacuum leaks.
 
(quoted from post at 10:31:08 03/21/18) Yeah - I will start over when i get home this afternoon. I think i will try starting and spraying WD40 to see if i can find any
vacuum leaks.
eaks can be inside the carb as well as outside & more difficult to find. Be sure venturi is oriented correctly, up/down.
 
(quoted from post at 22:44:35 03/20/18)
(quoted from post at 20:26:23 03/20/18) Not trying to wear y'all out but damnnnn.Removed carb and cleaned all openings,made new gaskets, checked air flow, fuel flow is good to carb. New Points set at .025 and good spark now.Fires up but have to keep choke pulled or it sputtered and dies..at a loss

Stalls unless choked. ..i sst the new points at .025, replaced condensor, bttry is new, removed and cleaned carb, flushed fuel line and blew out with carb cleaner. The eblow screen was very dirty at carb and got it cleaned. At first the fuel line from tank wouldnt send fuel to carb but thats fixed afger cleaning line.

Also, the carb wouldnt drain any fuel with removing carb bowl drain...it now will flow good when tank valve opened. Tank screen cleaned at valve and seems to get good fuel. Good spark...will fire up but dies unlezs choked continously.

Will try changing gap at points frim 025 to 015 and see what happens...this is a new prob i didnt have before. Again...its a 53 NAA with 6v pos grnd. Also dumped some sea foam...no change after carv tear down eventhough i now have good fuel flow. Still needs choked continously.

DO NOT change your points gap to .015

It is .025 on that tractor. Quit messing with the ignition.. spark is good.. you are now chasing a fuel problem.

check for a vacume leak at the carb halves. if you removed any seats, check them.
venturi in correct way?
main needle open enough?
 
I have main needle opened 1.5 turns, which is what it has always been. I will check for the leaks and try opening needle a 1/4 to
1/2 and see if that helps. Absent solution with that - i will break open the carb again and double check everything
else....pretty sure i have the venturi set correctly.

The cork gasket at the fuel bowl was crumbling and will get replacement today...the screen at the elbow of the carb was gunked up
pretty bad and i cleaned it all out, but little to no debri in carb. I added 5 gallons of fresh gas and let about a gallon flush
thru the bowl to make sure the tank screen was clear...I sprayed and soaked carb including all orafaces but could have missed
something.
 
You did a poor job of cleaning the carb. One needs to soak a carb over night in carb cleaner then spray out all the passageways and then blow out and also the most important is to poke out he passageways with a piece of wire or as I do I use a torch tip cleaner tool to poke out the passageways and by the way a simple carb kit at O'Reilly's auto parts is around $20
 
Idle jet should be set to 1.5 turns out from bottom and the main jet which sits low on the carb should be set at 2.5 out form bottom and those are just starting points. As an example a person in Denver CO would have to set a carb different then some one on the beach in FL due to differences in air pressure due to altitudes differences
 

Hooorah...THANK YOU ALL FOR THE HELP....i picked up a carb kit and rebuilt it when i gkt home from work today. I didnt find any blockages but the fresh carb parts did the trick. Only thing i noted during rebuild was the washer on the screw in tube on bottom half of carb had fallen apart so it wasnt seating at all with half washer.

Tractor fires righg up and idles good and steady...no need to choke at all.

This started with a voltage regulator fried. Then still no spark after some confusion on how to run a simple tester on a postive ground system...i learned its the same as normal and to quit trying to make is complicated.... i then was steered to the points and replacing those gave me goid spark all way around. She fired up! Ran like hell unless choked.....

Progressed to fuel system with more guidence..lesson was to just rebuild the carb and dont rely on cleaning it. I will be able to work in pasture now and much appreciated.

Hope this thread helps others as it has me....i still have no charge at the voltmeter. I will start a new thread on that and see if i can get a charge going but will start with meter and see whats happening so i have input.

Thanks Again....Brad
 
Good to hear you got it running. I keep my e-mail open on here so if someone wants to they can e-mail me and get my home number for help on the spot. Have had many people over the years call me for help and had one that called me every day for a week straight before he fixed his tractor and have not heard form him since LOL
 
You bet and thanks for being there...i don't know enough to consider offering anyone advice, but try and learn from others who have had issues. Frustrating if they never post the results because you don't know if what they were trying worked or not. Plus, with so many having alterations, you can throw out their solutions as they have little to do with OEM stuff.

I just printed the wiring diagram and I am going to start working on the charge issue in another thread
 
You staying 6 volts or going to upgrade to 12 volts?? If going to 12 volts the best way to go is a 1980 Chevy alternator for a 1/2 ton pickup up. Cost at O'Reilly's is around $45 plus $10 core and has a life time warranty. I can wire one up in my sleep.

At least you not working on what I am. I have a 1965 Ford 1 ton truck that does not run like it should. Have to keep it choked to run. Runs good other wise. Probably going to have to open up the carb again did it last year but then did not use it till now so trouble maybe back again
 
(quoted from post at 12:01:27 03/22/18) You staying 6 volts or going to upgrade to 12 volts?? If going to 12 volts the best way to go is a 1980 Chevy alternator for a 1/2 ton pickup up. Cost at O'Reilly's is around $45 plus $10 core and has a life time warranty. I can wire one up in my sleep.

At least you not working on what I am. I have a 1965 Ford 1 ton truck that does not run like it should. Have to keep it choked to run. Runs good other wise. Probably going to have to open up the carb again did it last year but then did not use it till now so trouble maybe back again

I am going to stay with original 6V Pos Ground setup if at all possible....just bought new 6V bttry and VR. If my Generator is toast it will depend on cost of the shop rebuilding it for me. I will not be buying a 400 dollar generator either way though.

Good luck with the 1 ton...the carb rebuild solved my issue of having to keep choke out...I can do things, but can follow play by play how to instructions.
 
I switch most on the tractor I work on to 12 volts because in the long run it is cheaper. Lifetime warranty alternator is around $45 where as a generator is going to be $100 plus and are not as reliable as the alternator is
 

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