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GM CS130, CS144 alternator swap on a tractor.

S

ScottNC

Member
Have a David Brown 885 on which a previous owner replaced the Lucas alternator with a GM CS series unit. I have used the GM 10SI as a one-wire alternator on a tractors before but not the CS. My understanding is that unlike the 10SI the CS family of alternator can be either self-exciting or needs to be excited at start-up through the "P" pin on the plug. The "installer" twisted all four wires from the plug together and taped them to the wire going to (I think) the voltmeter. The voltmeter does not show more than battery voltage unless the engine is running at 1400 RPM or more.

Has anyone used the CS alternator successfully who can explain the self-exciting/non self-exciting aspect and give me some direction on wiring one as a "one-wire" alternator correctly?
 
There's MANY "CS-series" voltage regulator internal variations, two of the MOST BASIC differences are the terminal markings/uses of the connector pins on the REGULATORS THEMSELVES. One version is marked "PLFS", the other version is marked "PLIS".

You will need to look closely to see how yours is marked, to have even an idea how to procede

Here's two basic diagrams, the second for the "PLIS"-type gives an option of using a resistor in the "I" lead, or not. It's been my experience that NOT using a resistor with some versions of the regulator can cause it to fail, but I do NOT have a value for the resistor "at hand'.

<img src = "https://alternatorparts.com/img/Fig3.jpg">
More info...
 
(quoted from post at 12:37:36 02/04/18) There's MANY "CS-series" voltage regulator internal variations, two of the MOST BASIC differences are the terminal markings/uses of the connector pins on the REGULATORS THEMSELVES. One version is marked "PLFS", the other version is marked "PLIS".

You will need to look closely to see how yours is marked, to have even an idea how to procced

Here's two basic diagrams, the second for the "PLIS"-type gives an option of using a resistor in the "I" lead, or not. It's been my experience that NOT using a resistor with some versions of the regulator can cause it to fail, but I do NOT have a value for the resistor "at hand'.

The weather here is miserable but will have the existing alternator tested and will make note of what it is I have.

&lt;img src = "https://alternatorparts.com/img/Fig3.jpg"&gt;
More info...
Click to expand...
 
I have a CS144 on my dozer. NOT a self-excite hookup though.

If you want to use a CS 121, 130, or 144 - you can buy and install a self-excite regulator just as you can for an old 10SI or 12SI.

Unlike an SI, a CS series often needs a special pigtail with a resistor to work correctly.
a256101.jpg
 
Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
 
(quoted from post at 11:43:04 02/11/18) Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
Click to expand...
ooking at Bob's diagrams, your P to switched 12v makes no sense.
 
(quoted from post at 10:23:54 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 11:43:04 02/11/18) Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
Click to expand...
ooking at Bob's diagrams, your P to switched 12v makes no sense.
Click to expand...

That's because I screwed up, it is "F" that you want. I have glasses, I just hate wearing them...

I think "P" is used to magnetize a self energizing alternator.
 
(quoted from post at 14:43:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 10:23:54 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 11:43:04 02/11/18) Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
Click to expand...
ooking at Bob's diagrams, your P to switched 12v makes no sense.
Click to expand...

That's because I screwed up, it is "F" that you want. I have glasses, I just hate wearing them...

I think "P" is used to magnetize a self energizing alternator.
Click to expand...
P" is pulse to be input to a tachometer. Looks to me like "F" would provided a fixed field current but no regulation.
 
(quoted from post at 15:28:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 14:43:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 10:23:54 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 11:43:04 02/11/18) Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
Click to expand...
ooking at Bob's diagrams, your P to switched 12v makes no sense.
Click to expand...

That's because I screwed up, it is "F" that you want. I have glasses, I just hate wearing them...

I think "P" is used to magnetize a self energizing alternator.
Click to expand...
P" is pulse to be input to a tachometer. Looks to me like "F" would provided a fixed field current but no regulation.
Click to expand...

We'll know in a couple days if I was told correctly. Need to do a bit of machining to align the pulleys before it gets reinstalled.
 
(quoted from post at 18:43:46 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 15:28:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 14:43:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 10:23:54 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 11:43:04 02/11/18) Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
Click to expand...
ooking at Bob's diagrams, your P to switched 12v makes no sense.
Click to expand...

That's because I screwed up, it is "F" that you want. I have glasses, I just hate wearing them...

I think "P" is used to magnetize a self energizing alternator.
Click to expand...
P" is pulse to be input to a tachometer. Looks to me like "F" would provided a fixed field current but no regulation.
Click to expand...

We'll know in a couple days if I was told correctly. Need to do a bit of machining to align the pulleys before it gets reinstalled.
Click to expand...
es, please keep us informed. All is good added to knowledge base.
 
(quoted from post at 22:35:51 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 18:43:46 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 15:28:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 14:43:02 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 10:23:54 02/11/18)
(quoted from post at 11:43:04 02/11/18) Took the alternator to a starter/alternator shop for testing. Fellow there said it was good but not the self exciting version and showed me which wire to hook to the hot-when-on side of the ignition switch. The way it had been wired it was full-fielded. FWIW, the "P" or pulse terminal is the one to use. All the others, at least for my use can be removed. I lucked out; a no cost repair!
Click to expand...
ooking at Bob's diagrams, your P to switched 12v makes no sense.
Click to expand...

That's because I screwed up, it is "F" that you want. I have glasses, I just hate wearing them...

I think "P" is used to magnetize a self energizing alternator.
Click to expand...
P" is pulse to be input to a tachometer. Looks to me like "F" would provided a fixed field current but no regulation.
Click to expand...

We'll know in a couple days if I was told correctly. Need to do a bit of machining to align the pulleys before it gets reinstalled.
Click to expand...
es, please keep us informed. All is good added to knowledge base.
Click to expand...

well, more than "a couple of days" have passed, more like a week, so I am going to make a WAG that the sounds of silence means that "F" didn't work out. Nor "P".
 

How 'bout tractor didn't start, got tired of it not starting and set the loader off and pulled the hood and fuel tank. That led to the discovery of what a mess the dash wires are. Also that the starter was wired to the thermostart lug on the ignition switch and the wire void of insulation. A fire waiting to happen. Thermostart wire was wrapped around a fuel line. That has led to a search for a replacement harness. Found the valve lash was so tight on the exhaust side the valves were held open. Also that the cold start assist screw is stuck fast with the "T" broken off flush with the stem. No idea which way the screw was being turned when the "T" broke. The alternator kinda got set aside for the moment.

Wag that.
 
(quoted from post at 08:56:40 03/03/18)
How 'bout tractor didn't start, got tired of it not starting and set the loader off and pulled the hood and fuel tank. That led to the discovery of what a mess the dash wires are. Also that the starter was wired to the thermostart lug on the ignition switch and the wire void of insulation. A fire waiting to happen. Thermostart wire was wrapped around a fuel line. That has led to a search for a replacement harness. Found the valve lash was so tight on the exhaust side the valves were held open. Also that the cold start assist screw is stuck fast with the "T" broken off flush with the stem. No idea which way the screw was being turned when the "T" broke. The alternator kinda got set aside for the moment.

Wag that.
Click to expand...
K. WAG is now 'obfuscation'. :)
 
I have an Oliver 500, which is really a David Brown 850 painted green, that the prior owner ~30 years ago installed a GM alternator. I have no idea what it is other than he had written in the back of the owners manual that it is from a 73 Oldsmobile. In any case it works fine. Would it help you if I figured out what this alternator is and how it is connected and post that?
 
(quoted from post at 02:43:44 03/09/18) I have an Oliver 500, which is really a David Brown 850 painted green, that the prior owner ~30 years ago installed a GM alternator. I have no idea what it is other than he had written in the back of the owners manual that it is from a 73 Oldsmobile. In any case it works fine. Would it help you if I figured out what this alternator is and how it is connected and post that?
Click to expand...
ice offer, but he is working with an alternator that was only manufactured well after 1973.
 
(quoted from post at 03:55:17 03/05/18)
(quoted from post at 08:56:40 03/03/18)
How 'bout tractor didn't start, got tired of it not starting and set the loader off and pulled the hood and fuel tank. That led to the discovery of what a mess the dash wires are. Also that the starter was wired to the thermostart lug on the ignition switch and the wire void of insulation. A fire waiting to happen. Thermostart wire was wrapped around a fuel line. That has led to a search for a replacement harness. Found the valve lash was so tight on the exhaust side the valves were held open. Also that the cold start assist screw is stuck fast with the "T" broken off flush with the stem. No idea which way the screw was being turned when the "T" broke. The alternator kinda got set aside for the moment.

Wag that.
Click to expand...
K. WAG is now 'obfuscation'. :)
Click to expand...


Bumped this old post to update. Finally, the tractor, while grumpy to start, is running, albeit only for thirty seconds to a minute at a time. The hydraulic pump lost its prime, no doubt due to sitting too long with no tranny fluid or filter. Anyway, according to the voltmeter the alternator is charging and not pegging the gauge with the "F" hot while running.

Once the hydraulics is bled and the tractor has run long enough to restore the batteries charge I'll report back as to whether or not it's regulating.
 
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