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hard to start withour either

M

massamoo14

Member
1974 4000 diesel, is almost impossible to start withour either, what is problem, pump, injectors, compression, just a small shot of either and it starts right up, need help and suggestions.

Thanks Mo :twisted:
 
Do those have a fuel lift pump on them? My 4040 started giving me fits one time,it wouldn't even start when the engine was warm. The little fuel pump was the problem.
 
has it done it for a while, or is this something new? low compression will cause hard starting, or its just the nature of the beast without glow plugs. buddy has a 454 international diesel, and it has an ether starting kit on it. below 75 degrees, it needs a shot to get going. even my skid steer, if its 80 degrees out, first thing in the morning on a cold start, it needs 30 seconds of glow plugs, then its good for the rest of the day.
 
You need to find the problem, you can damage a diesel using starting fluid. It sounds like the glow plugs are going bad or there is a voltage problem.
 
I WOULD DO A COMPRESSION TEST. A diesel has to have the proper compression to start. That will give you a good start to find out why. report back.
 
Ford 4000 or something else?

My AC WD45 diesel won't start cold without a sniff of either. Been in the family since 1974 when dad bought it brand new short
block and rebuilt head.
 
I'm gonna assume its a Ford 4000?? Does it have a "thermostart" plug in the intake manifold? is it working..
There should be a small fuel pipe coming off the inj. pump that feed a "glow plug" in the intake manifold..
BUT some have it & others don't..
Another easy check is the inj. pump timing.. theres a timing line on the pump mounting flange & degree marks on the engine block.. NORMALLY the Ford 4000 w/ a CAV DPA pump is set to "O" degrees..
ALL these can be checked w/ no money out of pocket..
 
Is it hard to start in hot and cold weather or just cold weather? If in cold weather put a Kats tank type block heater on it if you can. It will start easier
and take a lot of wear and tare off starter and batteries,
 
(quoted from post at 12:53:27 12/05/17) I'm gonna assume its a Ford 4000?? Does it have a "thermostart" plug in the intake manifold? is it working..
There should be a small fuel pipe coming off the inj. pump that feed a "glow plug" in the intake manifold..
BUT some have it & others don't..
Another easy check is the inj. pump timing.. theres a timing line on the pump mounting flange & degree marks on the engine block.. NORMALLY the Ford 4000 w/ a CAV DPA pump is set to "O" degrees..
ALL these can be checked w/ no money out of pocket..
Click to expand...

Should I advance or retard it or leave it alone is it is set to 0?
 
Are your rockers out of adjustment so the valves aren't quite closing all the way? It wouldn't take much for them to be too tight and be loosing some compression.
 
If it fires, right up and runs smooth right away with ether. . . it likely has low fuel delivery at cranking speed. That
comes from injection-pump wear or just cranking too slow. Does start right up after shut down when hot?

Usually if the problem is low compression, once it starts with the ether, it will skip and smoke for awhile.

Have you tried adding an additional battery with jumper-cables to make it crank faster to see if that improves starting?
 

Ether is for dire emergencies , not for regular use.
Is there a block heater?
I'll ask a question that has never been answered here in 15+ years but will indicate if there is a battery, cable , starter and slow cranking rpm problem. " What is the voltage measured while cranking between the main battery cable stud on the starter and the starter body" ?
As previously stated, check the valve lash and injection pump timing.
Are you holding the clutch down while cranking?
Which make and model of a 4000 ?
 
You can ADVANCE it, NO MORE than 2* [1 line]
Rotate it OPPOSITE the arrow on the name plate.
IF it doesn't help, move it back.
 
operators manuals for a couple of my Cat diesels recommends a small shot of either (2 sec max)to help starting when cold out, but says never to use ether if you have glow plugs
One dozer has an ether injection system built in with a push button to operate it.
 
John Deere put automatic ether-injection systems on some machines. Automatically injects ether when it gets below a
certain temp. Having it certainly did not void warranty considering it was a Deere option, factory installed. It is what
is called "moderation" I guess. My point being not just used in emergencies. Normal to use in extreme cold in DI engines
when no electric is available to run a block heater. That are an expensive propane-fired, or diesel-fired block heater.
 
(quoted from post at 13:38:55 12/06/17) John Deere put automatic ether-injection systems on some machines. Automatically injects ether when it gets below a
certain temp. Having it certainly did not void warranty considering it was a Deere option, factory installed. It is what
is called "moderation" I guess. My point being not just used in emergencies. Normal to use in extreme cold in DI engines
when no electric is available to run a block heater. That are an expensive propane-fired, or diesel-fired block heater.
Click to expand...

A controlled metered factory installed ether system is not frustated Bubba hand bombing a can of ether. While in a hurry trying to start a balky diesel that should have had the block heater plugged in.
 
I second the starter just went through it with a 4500. Send your starter out to a good shop they will tell you what the condition is.
 
(quoted from post at 10:38:55 12/06/17) John Deere put automatic ether-injection systems on some machines. Automatically injects ether when it gets below a
certain temp. Having it certainly did not void warranty considering it was a Deere option, factory installed. It is what
is called "moderation" I guess. My point being not just used in emergencies. Normal to use in extreme cold in DI engines
when no electric is available to run a block heater. That are an expensive propane-fired, or diesel-fired block heater.
Click to expand...

Many Fords came factory equipped with ether injection as did my 2003 4900i International with C-15 Cat.
 
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