PTO output shaft and 3 point hitch stopped working

1994 - 96, TAFE 35DI, 347 hrs.
I was bush hogging my neighbors field, grass not to thick, in 3rd gear low and the cutter stopped working. I just got the fuel pump back on the tractor, (thanks thepumpguysc), and was using it for the first time. I have owned the tractor for about 8 years and never changed the hydraulic fluid. Im pretty sure it had the same fluid it came from the factory with. The user manual says change every 400 hrs and I assumed the previous owners changed at the first 50. I asked...nope. The hours on the pto output shaft is estimated at about 50hrs. The previous owners used the 3 point to move round bales for horses but never engaged the PTO. I removed the access panel with the engagement lever and everthing inside looks clean except for the small dips in the bottom of the case. I removed the triangle shaped panel on bottom of case, right under the filter, and it had about 1/8th deep sludge in it. It is recessed i think to catch stuff like that. The drained fluid was dark. It always looked clear on the stick. The filter is dark brown and there is the expected amount of tiny slivers of metal on the magnetized drain plug. Everything inside looks good and clean except for the small dips on the bottom of the case. I ordered a new filter and will flush the case good but,
1 - Can anyone suggest what else I can check while I have access panels off and before I fill with fluid?
2 - here is an access panel about 3in high on same side as engagement lever, with what looks like an screw behind it, inside the case. Does anyone know what this does?
3 - I've read there are 2 maybe 3 drain plugs on a MF 135, (closest in design to tafe), do I need to find and drain all of them?
I'm going to try and post pictures. If they don't post, I will try again tomorrow on a desk top puter.
 
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Have a helper turn the PTO shaft both engaged and then disengaged to out put shaft of HYD. Pump (on 1 3/8 drive spline) while you look inside the HYD Cavity with a light. See if and what all is turning?

Bob..
 
(quoted from post at 09:48:16 10/30/17) Have a helper turn the PTO shaft both engaged and then disengaged to out put shaft of HYD. Pump (on 1 3/8 drive spline) while you look inside the HYD Cavity with a light. See if and what all is turning?

Bob..

Thank you for the reply Bob,
I will get my wife to turn the output shaft by hand while I look inside at everything. I will focus on the coupling you show in your pics and look at everything else that turns.
 
Mr Bob,
The manual I have doesnt go into detail on the hydraulics but, it says that the PTO is "live". It also states that it is "engine driven". This may sound like a dumb question but, does that mean that the PTO output shaft is not ran off of the hydraulic pump? In other words, as long as the drive coupling to the pump is intact, (on the engine/trans side), the shaft that goes through the pump is turning the output shaft should turn? My tractor doesnt have to 2 gears your pics show at the rear of the trans box, on the upper and lower shaft.
 
I should have said the output shaft turns when engaged by on/off lever, as long as shaft is turning from pump.
Edit feature broken, sorry for extra post
 
Thank you for the reply Mr Bob,
I will take the photos tonight that you requested and post them in the morning.
I had my wife turn the PTO shaft and watched and felt inside the case. Disengaged, nothing but the shaft she turned from the back, turned. Engaged, the shaft going through the hydraulic pump turned and I put my hand on the drive coupling and it was turning. I could actually hear everything else moving from that point forward, (towards from of tractor),. Not in a bad way, just like gears meshing.
In your opinion, do I also need to drain the fluid from the transmission gear box, while im at it. I assume it fills from the hydraulic gear box when I fill it. I cant find a fill cap for the transmission.
Thank you so much for your help
 
Quote:
I will take the photos tonight that you requested and post them in the morning.

I had my wife turn the PTO shaft and watched and felt inside the case. Disengaged, nothing but the shaft she turned from the back, turned. Engaged, the shaft going through the hydraulic pump turned and I put my hand on the drive coupling and it was turning. I could actually hear everything else moving from that point forward, (towards from of tractor),. Not in a bad way, just like gears meshing.

In your opinion, do I also need to drain the fluid from the transmission gear box, while im at it. I assume it fills from the hydraulic gear box when I fill it. I cant find a fill cap for the transmission.
Thank you so much for your help

Yes drain the OIL from the Transmission:

Pictures are of my MF FE 35 X:

It sounds like you have a component that has failed forwards of the HYDRAULC PUMP drive COUPLING:

With he ENGINE not running, and the PTO engaged you should not be able to turn the PTO shaft. On my MF FE 35 X the PTO when engaged,is direct drive train to the Engine (yes RPM is reduced through gearing)

EG, shaft, Clutch, Gearing..

Bob..
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(quoted from post at 05:19:17 10/31/17)
Was the shear pin on the rotary cutter replaced with a harder bolt or is there a slip clutch that is rusted right ?

Thank you for the reply,
The rotary cutter is a deere and has a slip clutch. It is not rusted,
I adjust it about 1 a year and check all the bolt before each use.
 

Thank you mr Bob,
I will post the pics you asked for in the morning.
When my PTO is engaged, (when it worked), it turned the same speed weather I was is 1st low or 1st high. the only thing that would make it go faster or slower is the RMP. It is engaged with a 2 stage clutch. I let the clutch out a little and the PYO engages, (with selector in on position), and let in out the rest of the way and the tractor moves.
 
MF FE 35 X components that MY be similar to your Tractor;

Pictures are in case you have to inspect Transmission:




Bob..
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Thank you so much for your help Mr Bob,
Thank you also for the transmission diagrams for tractor. I am posting the pic you asked for and pics of the trans manual for my tractor. Maybe you can tell me where to start removing stuff to check.
If anyone needs or wants a TAFE 35DI, 45DI shop manual, I have it in PDF and will share it.
Also is a pic of an access panel on the bottom of the bell housing. Can I remove that to inspect the pressure plates?
 
Quote:Also is a pic of an access panel on the bottom of the bell housing. Can I remove that to inspect the pressure plates?

Here is a picture of a MF FE 35 X...yes you can remove the inspection plate:

Bob....
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With Transmission in NEUTRAL (both range selector as well as main gear shift),Engine fuel shut OFF, crank engine over with starter. Verify that HYDRAULIC PUMP as well as PTO shaft are NOT TURNING..you may have to apply a length of wood eg,2" X 4" several inches long on the 1 3/8 " PTO drive splines to cause a little resistance to the rotation.

Do not place your HANDS inside HYDRAULIC PUMP area while engine is turning on starter!

If there is no sign of HYDRAULIC pump, PTO shaft rotating, if it was my tractor I would remove the top of the Transmission cover and start looking for some faulty component with in the Transmission:

I would drain the oil from the transmission as the OIL in the Transmission, hydraulics, and rear differential are all common on a MF FE 35 x:

Bob...
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Thank you Mr Bob. I tried upload pictures this morning they wouldn't go through. I will try again this afternoon when I get in. I will check the shaft and pump this friday, the way you suggested. When my wife turns the PTO output shaft, I can hear and see the pump working. I put my hand on the coupling coming from the trans to the pump and it is turning. I can also feel the splines on the trans side of the coupling turning with it. My manual doesn't tell how to lift the trans cover but I will follow your instructions.
Thank you for helping me
 
Once you feel the problem is most likely in the Transmission you shall probably remove the Top of the transmission and View for a problem:

Bob..
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Mr Bob, I cant thank you enough for helping me. There really isnt anything on the net about TAFE tractors and I hope anybody in the future will see this thread and use the information. I will drain the trans oil and, take the inspection cover off in the morning. I will get my wife to turn the output shaft while I inspect the pressure plate area for any movement. I there is none there, I will lift the transmission cove and inspect it. I dont have any instructions on lifting the trans cover. Can you please tell me if there is anything I need to watch for or anything special I need to do to get it off and up? I know I need to lift the hood, undo the steering linkage, (each side). Should the gear shift levers be in neutral? Should I look for anything to fall out when lifting, ETC. I build my own car engines, gunsmith, antique clock repair so I have no doubt I can fix my tractor with the right help and IF I can get parts if needed.
Thank you again for your help
 
I hope you can see these pictures.
For anyone interested, this the transmission of a TAFE 35DI and 45DI, 8 speed. Sorry about the reference page in lanscape view but, its the only way to poast it so yall might read it.
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Just out of curiosity Mr Bob, do you know what the little piece of metal sticking out of the bottom of the transmission is? Its in the picture showing the access panel, between it and the drain plug.
 
Quote:
Just out of curiosity Mr. Bob, do you know what the little piece of metal sticking out of the bottom of the transmission is? Its in the picture showing the access panel, between it and the drain plug.

The loose fitting cotter pin is to keep DIRT and Corruption from entering the CLUTCH area. The hole is to let the operator know if any significant amount of oil is leaking from either the REAR engine oil seal, or oil from the input shaft of the Transmission.


Bob.....Cold today, 0 Deg F
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Thank you Mr Bob,
0 degrees today? WOW!!! It's 80 here today in SC but that's typical for us in the deep South. At least this time of year we have very low humid.
Is there anything special I should do before lifting the trans cover after unconnecting the steering linkage? Should I be in neutral, both levers, is anything going to fall out etc?
 
I would have both Shifting levers in Neutral,3 point control lever in the down position and rear wheels chocked/ blocked. Battery disconnected. Try to lift cover and associated attaching parts vertical. Once cover has moved vertical from transmission Case approximately 3/8">1/2",look / view the space between the Trans. cover and the Trans. case to verify nothing is attached, eg, SPRINGS.

Bob...
 
Thank you Mr Bob,
I will be doing it in the morning.
I dont have internet at my house and just enough cell service, (with a booster) to post. I will post what I can about the progress and pictures on Monday.
Thank you again
 
Good morning Mr Bob
I hope the weather is a little warmer where you are today. I remover the inspection plate and laying on it is 6 rivet heads. I'm assuming my problem is the pressure plate is shot. In a way, that's a good thing because I hope I won't have to get into the transmission but, I will have to break the tractor in half to replace it.
 
Good morning Mr. balsabones

You are a true Detective......when I split the Engine from the Transmission (MF FE 35 x, Ferguson TEA-20,Foird 8-N) I had to be careful. All components forward of the Transmission bell housing shall try to pivot either "CW" or "CCW" on the CENTER PIN of the FRONT axel.

Jacks, overhead hoist, blocks of wood ect,etc,all work.

Pictures from the Internet:

Try to keep the front and rear section of your Tractor on the same plane......makes for re assembly much easier.

Bob..
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Thank you for the compliment. My name is Michael btw. I'm in McCormick SC, about 5 miles from the Savannah river and 20 miles from Augusta Ga. I have already leveled up the tractor. I'm working on hard pack clay and an overhead lift is not an option. My nearest neighbor is about 2 miles and no one around here has anything like that. I could build something out of oak, (I have my own sawmill and trees), but I need the tractor to haul the trees out. I have 4 floor jacks and enough 2X10 oak boards to make something to roll the jack holding the front end away. I will find a way to stabilize the pivoting front end,, If I weld something up to clamp it together or something else.
 
Hello Mr Bob, I got my tractor seperated. It looks like i will need an entire clutch assembly. When I pulled it apart, the splined hub of the pressure plate fell off of the shaft. Looking at the pressure plate mounted to the flywheel, the crank shaft is at the top. I'm surprised I was able to drive it home. I created a redneck way of slitting the tractor. I cut some square tubing stock and ran it through the front end under the front axle. It is solid. I jacked the trans up on a piece of 1" thick lexon. It the stuff the divides bathroom stalls. The jack felt like it was floating on it. Now I have to price a whole clutch kit. I saw some that had a 12" clutch instead of the 10" mine had. The description said it is a replacement for it. Do you or anyone else know about this or heard of It?
Thank you for your help Mr Bob. You don't know how it much it has helped.
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Sorry to flood the topic with posts but, I hope it will help someone. The hub in the first picture above is from the pressure plate. It sheerd off under load or something is broken in the trans mission. I have to get my wife to help me to find out. Also, in the manual, it says to remove the 3, 1/4 X 1 1/2 slave bolts after installation of pressure plate assembly. On my pressure plate, the 3 slave bolts were still in and one of them had backed out about 1/4 of an inch. Does anyone know if leaving them in is typical? Can anyone tell me how disassemble the unit, to get the false flywheel, PTO friction disc, PTO pressure plate and Belleville spring disc out?
 
Good morning Michael ........
Always a great felling when a challenge is methodically followed through to discover the failed component.
Consider having a helper turn the PTO out put shaft (splined end) both ?CW? and ?CCW? ever so little (hold the input drive / clutch end of the PTO) to verify how much backlash there is in the PTO drive train? Then lift up and down by hand as well as from side to side the input drive / clutch end of the PTO to verify any amount of excessive clearance?

I would consider ?what was the cause for the failed drive components??

(1) Faulty components?

(a ) Center drive HUB of clutch disc assembled OFF center of friction disc by manufacturer?

(b) Were the RIVETS that held the drive HUB to the friction disc. Magnetic? or Non Magnetic?

(c ) Is the PILOT bearing in the center of the Crankshaft Faulty?Allowing excessive side movement of input shafts to transmission?

(d ) Is throw out bearing Faulty? Causing undo stress on Clutch releasing fingers as well as heat?

(2) Faulty Installation of Components?

(a) Was friction disc. damaged on installation? Splines did not align so force was used to assemble Engine to Transmission? Eg. Puller bolts were used to draw Engine to mate with transmission?

(b) Clutch components were not adjusted properly on last Installation ,causing slippage and heat to failed components? Set clutch assembly as per service manual instructions.

(3 ) Sudden load or loads over time added under full engine power to PTO drive causing a spike in Torsional Load?

(a ) There should be a Clutch,Shear Pin or some device to act as a sacrificial part.

(b) I can not believe that the Hydraulic Relief Valve set to HIGH would cause a Clutch failure,however,I have seen owners using rear mounted FORKS on their Three point hitch lifting 2000 + lb. bales that were frozen to the ground treating the tractor beyond the design limits. ( I have included a picture of a failed drive disc)

(4) I?m sure there are several other conditions that would result in a Failed drive disc.

I spent time on the INTERNET (Google) and found that the PART NUMBERS for a ?TAFE Clutch Kit 3599463M92, 3599462M92 25DI; 35DI; 45DI? and a Massey Ferguson Clutch Kit 3599463M92, 3599462M92 seem to be the SAME Components?

NEW Clutch Kit for TAFE Tractor 25DI 35DI 45DI 3599463M92 3599462M92
Part Numbers: ... TAFE Tractor 25DI 35DI 45DI 3599463M92 3599462M92 Part Number: C2012-7000T MPN: 2012-7000 Part Notes Kit contains 12" 10 spline rigid drive disc 3599462M92, 12" 25 spline double pressure plate ...



More info off the nnalert:

TAFE Parts

Brand New Aftermarket

For ALL EMERGENCY JOBS - CALL 1 877 298 3210 FIRST before ordering. Standard Shipping is for 48 US States Only and Urban areas in Canada. Call for rates for Alaska, Hawaii and outlying Canadian Locations.We have tractor parts in stock in the U.S.A. and Canada and we will also ship these parts internationally. NB. Canadian Customers. There CAN be a handling time of 5-10 days before stock is available in Canada.

Description

2012-7000 TAFE Parts Clutch Kit 25DI; 35DI; 45DI
Technical Specs
Kit contains 12" 10 spline rigid drive disc 3599462M92, 12" 25 spline double pressure plate 3599463M92, pilot bearing C5NN7600A and release bearing C0NN7580A, includes pilot tool.
Replaces
3599462M92 ,3599463M92 KIT1 KIT2
Fits
25DI; 35DI; 45DI


I believe you would receive more info if you started a new thread / topic in the ?YT? section called ....?.Lesser Known Classics?
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Thank you for the diagram pictures Mr Bob. They will help a lot. Someone did make a huge mistake. The drive disc for the PTO has very little wear on it but the splined hub sheared off of it. With the slave bolts in, the springs of the drive hub, wasn't putting all their pressure on the false flywheel. My wife turned the PTO output shaft on the rear and it turns in the bell housing. I think the rivets were stressed when I loaned my tractor to my son a couple of weeks ago. He told me that every time he engaged the PTO, it would grind really bad. He didn't know I had a 2 stage clutch. After asking him, he also said he didn't pick up the cutter when engaging the PTO after a break. I will look into the clutch assembly you found on the internet. Thank you for taking the time to do that.
Michael
 
Hi all, I have finally got to the point to getting my tractor back together. I have a dew questions yall may be able to help me with. First, I have installed a new pto assembly. I ordered the whole thing in a kit. My question is, once Im ready to join the 2 halves of the tractor, why cant I leave the slave bolts in the clutch assembly and remove them after I have joined the 2 halves of the tractor? I can use the alignment tool to get the discs close to center but not take the slave bolts out all the way, so that the discs can move just a little bit when trying to align the halves. I believe there is enough room to remove them through the inspection hole. Has anyone tried this?
Next question, how can I wash out the transmission and pto areas. There is some but not a lot of a sludge substance in the bottom and I cant get to it to wipe it out. Also, there is no way to wipe out the trans without removing the top with gearshift.
Any and all help is appreciated.
I have a TAFE 25 -45 shop manual in pdf if anyone wants a copy. Let me know and I will burn a disc for you or email it.
 
I'm considering buying a '94 Tafe 45DI - I'm trying it out for a week before I buy. It's got 866 hours on it and appears to be in really good shape. I would love to have a copy of the shop manual you mentioned if you don't mind emailing it to me. wa4zgi at mikehagans dot com.
Also - I'm seeing a little bit of oil on the shop floor under the tractor right about where the engine meets the transmission. It's leaking in the neighborhood of 8-10 drops per day. It looks like they overfilled the crankcase at the last oil change, so I'm hoping it's just too high an oil level and not a rear seal leak.

I'd appreciate any suggestions...

Mike
WA4ZGI
 

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