64 ford 4000 help please

Noahsswan

New User
We are having issues with a 64 ford 4000 I will try to be as complete as I can
My dad has a 1964 ford 4000 gas 4 cyl and as he was bush hogging with it it just died on him he said it was like some one shut the key off the and would not start back up
After playing with it a lot this is what we did
We replaced the oem carb with a bran new zenith carb and replaced the distributitor all new assembled gap was set to .025
plugs wires and new 6 volt coil still 6 volt system
We timed it by the book and would not start strong spark getting fuel Ext
Now if we advance it a lot not sure degree it will start up and run and you can fine tune it by moveing distributor adv or retard and get it to run smooth as silk
But her lays the issue its ideling 700-900 rpm and carb won't bring it down to 450 if I rememeb correctly
I assume it's because it's so advanced
Now my question is
Why does it have to be advanced so far to start if timed to spec by book and why does carb adj have no effect
Please help
I will try my best to answer any and all questions
 
Welcome Noahsswan!

Lets look at one thing at a time.

First the carb. The refusal to idle down sounds like one of 2 possible problems.

There could be a vacuum leak. You can check for vacuum leak by getting a can of flammable carb cleaner (not chlorinated brake cleaner). With the straw on the valve, direct the cleaner around the gasket areas, carb flange, anywhere there could be a leak and listen for the engine sound to change.

The other possibility, there is a problem with the carb itself. The aftermarket carbs come with universal linkage. Possibly the throttle plate is flipped around to the wrong side of the throttle bore. Take the carb off, look at the throttle plate. Be sure when it is against the idle stop, the upper edge of the plate is on the same side as the idle circuit feed hole, the tiny hole just above where the throttle plate meets the bore.

Also make sure the throttle plate will close completely tight in the bore with the idle stop screw backed out. If not, loosen the screws and center the plate. Caution! The screws may be bradded on the back side. Don't twist them off. If there is a problem, decide carefully what to do so not to void the warranty. Sending it back is an option. If the plate is right, there is no vacuum leak, and the idle mixture screw still makes no difference, there is trash in the idle circuit, or a problem with the carb. I believe the Zenith idle mixture is out for lean, in for rich. It regulated air bleed, not fuel flow.

If you can get a vacuum gauge, take a look at the idle vacuum. There are good Youtube videos on how to diagnose with a vacuum gauge. It is a very handy tool.

As for the timing, I don't know what to say really. Might go back through the static timing procedure, double check all your marks and procedure. But if you find a sweet spot that it starts and runs and doesn't clatter or kick back against the starter, leave it there. That is a low compression engine, not extremely critical on the timing. Also take a look at the direction the centrifugal advance moves the spark timing. Again, aftermarket parts, it could be assembled backward. You should be able to spring it forward in the direction the distributor turns.

Let us know what you find...
 
Thanks for the welcome

As far as checking for leak we have sprayed to check for leaks
With no change as far as seeing if the throttle plate is backwards I have not I will check that the first second I get
Thank you for the input
 

WRT the timing situation. Does it have the little spring clip under the rotor? If you take ahold of the top of the distributor shaft can you move it back and forth at all?
 
The old one yes
The new one it all tight no movement and spring clip is there
The excessive play is why we changed it
 
And I was off on the year it's a 1963

Do these have a timing chain or are they gear to gear
And what would the chance of it "jumping a tooth"
 
Timing gears, no chain.

Extremely unlikely the cam is out of time.

But if you want to check, pull the valve cover, set the crank at TDC. Watch the #1 and #4 rockers. While rocking the crank slightly back and forth, you will see which set of rockers is in the overlap position, when the ex is closing and the in is opening. Split the difference when both are closed. The crank should be at TDC.
 
that was my last option to what may be wrong
after thinking there is a short heavy duty looking spring that is connected to the hand throttle and not sure where other end goes i wanna say with the research i have done it may possibly be the gov spring but i don't think that will cause the tractor to have to be advanced as high up as it is its almost as high as it will go just to start
 
Your trouble with the timing reminds me of one of these I ran into years ago--tore it down to check gear keys-found the cam gear [aluminum] had a steel hub that had turned loose, floating around.
 
Sounds like you took the "shotgun" approach to fixing the problem. You changed out both the carb and distributor without first determining whether you had a fuel or ignition problem. Now you don't know what new problems you introduced when you swapped out those parts.

First off, set the timing where it's supposed to be and leave it there.

A common mistake with these engines is to install the plug wires in reverse order. They'll actually run if the wires are backwards, but not well.
 
Here's where I'm at
Under compression check I got
124.5
125
124.5
125
Went ahead and
Replaced head gasket for grins (it can in a kit I bought)
Adj valve lash
Replaced intake exhaust manifold and gaskets
New wire harness is on the way
Replaced thermostat and gasket
And new plugs
Still not right
Extreamly advanced
And hard to start hot or cold
At one point when I was messing with it it seemed to start while hot if i retard the timing so I ask the carb to make it right still starting good not as smooth running but starting good a few tweeks of the carb and il be up town
Stopped to grab a bite to eat then when to mess with it again and wouldn't you know it back in the same boat
 

Noahsswan, it sounds like you are suffering from the very common what I will call the "Newbie Major Problem Syndrome". This syndrome manifests itself every few weeks here at YT and is recognized by the new poster describing what is to him a very unusual problem. The poster describes how he has tried to solve the problem by replacing major components one after another because he is certain that his problem just has to be a major and very unusual problem and can't be just a simple adjustment. Have you tried setting your governor linkage by following the procedure in your owner's manual?
 

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