Need Help! 1955 Ford 660 won't start

tractordisaster · Apr 22, 2017

Hi, I have a 1955 Ford 660 that won't start. The guy we bought it from had partially rewired/rebuilt it using some automotive parts, and bypassing the push button starter.

It ran when we bought it, but going through some brush pulled some wires loose and now it won't run. I have rewired it, and replaced the solenoid,alternator (now one wire), carburetor, ignition coil (now internally resisted), ammeter, and temperature gauge. I believe it is a 12V system and is negatively grounded, but I'm not really sure of anything anymore.

I've had a mechanic and an electrical engineer helping me, with no luck. We had gotten to the point where we at least had engine cranking, but now I get no reaction when pushing the starter switch. Please help if you can, I'm extremely frustrated. Thanks.

old · Apr 22, 2017

Tractor wiring is so simple I can almost do it in my sleep but I have also been wiring them up for decades. From your pictures you look like you have a night mare of a wiring system. Wiring a 1 wire alternator and start system is easy. You have a simple wire form the ignition switch to the coil. The other wire form the ignition switch goes to the amp gauge if you have one and the other wire form the amp gauge goes to the battery. The wire from the alternator goes to the amp gauge. Now the start circuit is also simple with the wire form the starter button to the small stud on the solenoid. If you have the correct solenoid that is. If you have one made for a car/truck it will not work on a tractor

rrlund · Apr 22, 2017

"I get no reaction when pushing the starter switch"

Do they have a neutral safety switch or a clutch safety switch on them? If nothing happens when you push the button,I'd start there.

rvirgil_KS · Apr 22, 2017

Where do the 2 wires on the small post of the solenoid go? There should only be one wire on that post

Left post on coil appears to have one wire going to side of distributor. Where does other wire go? With an alternator and negative ground, the - post should have only one wire and it goes to side post on distributor. + post on coil, if using a direct 12 volt no resistor required coil, should have a wire going to the on off switch. Only 2 wires on coil.

Is there a B or BAT stamped near one of the large posts on the solenoid? If so the battery connects to that post and other post to starter. Small post goes to start button by gear shift. If nothing stamped by either post you may have wrong solenoid.

old · Apr 22, 2017

The 600 series fords have a neutral safety switch in the transmission cover. No clutch safety.

tractordisaster · Apr 22, 2017

[i:31c24fd696]Where do the 2 wires on the small post of the solenoid go? There should only be one wire on that post...[/i:31c24fd696]one wire goes from the push button starter switch to the solenoid. The second wire goes to the terminal block, on the same post as the wire to the coil.

[i:31c24fd696]Left post on coil appears to have one wire going to side of distributor. Where does other wire go? With an alternator and negative ground, the - post should have only one wire and it goes to side post on distributor. + post on coil, if using a direct 12 volt no resistor required coil, should have a wire going to the on off switch. Only 2 wires on coil.[/i:31c24fd696] One post on the coil goes to the distributor, the other comes from the terminal block. (same post as the wire from the solenoid)

[i:31c24fd696]Is there a B or BAT stamped near one of the large posts on the solenoid? If so the battery connects to that post and other post to starter. Small post goes to start button by gear shift. If nothing stamped by either post you may have wrong solenoid.
[/i:31c24fd696] The solenoid is a tractor solenoid. The previous owner had utin an automotive one, so we had to replace it.

pinball · Apr 22, 2017

I have found a voltage meter is very helpful when solving voltage problems. Check your ground cable . it should have 12 volts if the key is turned on.

tractordisaster · Apr 22, 2017

[i:1ceaa8d338]Tractor wiring is so simple I can almost do it in my sleep but I have also been wiring them up for decades. From your pictures you look like you have a night mare of a wiring system. Wiring a 1 wire alternator and start system is easy. You have a simple wire form the ignition switch to the coil. The other wire form the ignition switch goes to the amp gauge if you have one and the other wire form the amp gauge goes to the battery. The wire from the alternator goes to the amp gauge. Now the start circuit is also simple with the wire form the starter button to the small stud on the solenoid. If you have the correct solenoid that is. If you have one made for a car/truck it will not work on a tractor
[/i:1ceaa8d338]
Thanks. I have no mechanical background, so I appreciate your patience.I have seen several different wiring diagrams, none of them have worked. There is a terminal block with two posts. Most of the wires are attached there, but none of these responses mention that. Is that one of those things everyone (but me) knows about?

The solenoid is a tractor part, not an automotive one. I do have an amp gauge.

tractordisaster · Apr 22, 2017

Thanks, I do have a voltmeter. I will check that.

rvirgil_KS · Apr 23, 2017

"The solenoid is a tractor solenoid"
"...one wire goes from the push button starter switch to the solenoid. The second wire goes to the terminal block, on the same post as the wire to the coil".

If it is a "tractor solenoid" it should receive power internally from the big battery connection post, and activate by grounding the small post through the switch by the gear shift. There should only be the one wire going to start button on small post.

Battery post on solenoid that powers the solenoid should be marked BAT on the case by the big post.

"One post on the coil goes to the distributor, the other comes from the terminal block. (same post as the wire from the solenoid)"

I assume the red wire on right post of coil comes from terminal block. That terminal should connect to output of the ignition switch.

Black wire on left coil post goes to side of the distributor. Where does the other gray or brown wire go? There should not be a second wire on this post if it is a direct 12 volt coil

rvirgil_KS · Apr 23, 2017

When I read "ground cable" I assume it means the cable going from one of the battery posts to tractor frame. "Ground" is the circuit return, and also the zero reference point of the system. Ground will be 0 volts regardless if the key switch is on or off.

rrlund · Apr 23, 2017

I got thinking about this while I was laying in bed last night. I remembered that when I changed the solenoid on my Oliver 1550 four or five years ago,I couldn't get that one to work at all. I got it at the auto parts store and it looked identical to the original. It wouldn't work when wired like the original though. I wish I could tell you what you're doing wrong,but I had to use a test light and jumper wire to figure mine out. I finally got it,but it was frustrating. If I remember right,one wire ended up getting taped off and tucked back up in the harness because it wasn't even necessary when I got it done.

tractordisaster · Apr 23, 2017

(quoted from post at 07:11:07 04/23/17) I got thinking about this while I was laying in bed last night. I remembered that when I changed the solenoid on my Oliver 1550 four or five years ago,I couldn't get that one to work at all. I got it at the auto parts store and it looked identical to the original. It wouldn't work when wired like the original though. I wish I could tell you what you're doing wrong,but I had to use a test light and jumper wire to figure mine out. I finally got it,but it was frustrating. If I remember right,one wire ended up getting taped off and tucked back up in the harness because it wasn't even necessary when I got it done.

Thanks! Yes, it is a tractor solenoid. It does look identical to an automotive one, we tried that first, not knowing the difference mattered. This one was purchased from a tractor parts site.

tractordisaster · Apr 23, 2017

So reading all of these answers makes me wonder what the purpose of the terminal block is, and if it is safe to bypass it??

tractordisaster · Apr 23, 2017

If it is a "tractor solenoid" it should receive power internally from the big battery connection post, and activate by grounding the small post through the switch by the gear shift. There should only be the one wire going to start button on small post.

Battery post on solenoid that powers the solenoid should be marked BAT on the case by the big post.

"One post on the coil goes to the distributor, the other comes from the terminal block. (same post as the wire from the solenoid)"

I assume the red wire on right post of coil comes from terminal block. That terminal should connect to output of the ignition switch. [i:390d0d6a90]Is that directly, or through the terminal block on the same post?[/i:390d0d6a90]

Black wire on left coil post goes to side of the distributor. Where does the other gray or brown wire go? There should not be a second wire on this post if it is a direct 12 volt coil. [i:390d0d6a90] I'm going out now to check for sure, but I think there is only one wire on each side of the coil. The thick grey wire on top goes to the distributor cap.[/i:390d0d6a90]

[i:390d0d6a90]Thank you for your responses, I'm feeling a little more optimistic...[/i:390d0d6a90][/i]

old · Apr 23, 2017

Here are a couple of things to try to see if things are working right. Be 1000% sure it is out of gear. Then run a heavy jumper from the ignition side of the battery to the starter. That will prove that the starter is good since the engine should spin over when you do that.
You can also run a hot wire from the battery ignition side to the coil at the same time and if you do that it should turn over and maybe start if it is getting fuel.
Those things will help you figure out where the problem is

rvirgil_KS · Apr 23, 2017

Terminal block is a convenient connection point for several wires. One of the 2 switch wires connect to each side of the block. Hot battery goes to one side. When the switch is turned on you have switched output at other terminal.

The switch is your bypass

tractordisaster · Apr 23, 2017

(quoted from post at 13:43:41 04/23/17) Terminal block is a convenient connection point for several wires. One of the 2 switch wires connect to each side of the block. Hot battery goes to one side. When the switch is turned on you have switched output at other terminal.

The switch is your bypass

So being connected to the same post on the terminal block is the same as being directly connected, yes? Do i basically run everything through there? I have the smaller wire on the battery side of the solenoid, the yellow wire from the ignition switch, and the red one from the coil on the same side.

Right now the alternator is wired directly to the ammeter, but that doesn't seem right. If it should be on the terminal block, Should it go on the same post as the switch, coil, etc...or the other one?
Also, the second wire from the ignition switch is directly attached to the ammeter now, it needs to be moved to the other terminal block posts, right?

How do I know which side is which when it comes to the ammeter, and what should be attached to which side?

Sorry, when I said I didn't know anything, I wasn't kidding!

rvirgil_KS · Apr 23, 2017

There should be:
Wire from output of alternator to one side of ammeter. Other side of ammeter to battery cable connection on starter solenoid.

Wire from alternator side of ammeter to one side of terminal block. This terminal should also have wire going to ignition switch and light switch.

Other side of terminal block should have other wire from ignition switch, and wire to + side of coil. - side of coil to side of distributor. No other wires on + or - post of coil

Wire from small post on solenoid to starter button by gear shift. No other wire on this small post

With light/ignition switch on and engine not running, ammeter should show slightly to negative. If it shows positive reverse wires on ammeter posts

tractordisaster · Apr 23, 2017

. [i:bff42138ff]Hey, guess what! So I did that, and now the engine cranks. Still doesn't start, but that's progress, right?

I think there may be automotive spark plugs in it, do all parts have to be specifically tractor parts?[/i:bff42138ff]

tractordisaster · Apr 23, 2017

See below. The engine is now cranking, but still not turning over. The ammeter needle quivers, but doesn't point to anything but zero.

An unrelated question, where does the probe for the water temperature gauge go?

Thanks.

old · Apr 23, 2017

Cranking and turning over is one in the same. Turning over is not the same as starting. That all said hot wire it. Run a wire form the ignition side of the battery to the ignition side of the coil. If it starts and runs then you need to trace where power gets lost going to the coil from the ignition switch

Josh Tallent · Apr 26, 2017

The probe for the water temperature gauge screws into a hole in the right side of the cylinder head (as you're sitting on the tractor) at the rear of the engine (closest to the operator; behind number 4 spark plug).

Once you replace the probe, make sure your coolant is at the proper level (just covering the tops of the tubes in the radiator).

Just judging by the sheet metal (which granted may not be original to the tractor), that's not a 660 -- looks like a 661 Workmaster, which I think would have been built somewhere between late 1957 and 1962. The model and serial number are stamped on the flat casting right below the air cleaner on the left side of the tractor. Google "John Smith" and "Ford"; the first hit you get should be Smith's Old Ford Tractors. Click on the "tractor ID/history" link and scroll down to find serial numbers and build dates for your machine.

tractordisaster · Apr 28, 2017

(quoted from post at 19:23:17 04/26/17) The probe for the water temperature gauge screws into a hole in the right side of the cylinder head (as you're sitting on the tractor) at the rear of the engine (closest to the operator; behind number 4 spark plug).

[i:2a1280e8f1]Once you replace the probe, make sure your coolant is at the proper level (just covering the tops of the tubes in the radiator).

Just judging by the sheet metal (which granted may not be original to the tractor), that's not a 660 -- looks like a 661 Workmaster, which I think would have been built somewhere between late 1957 and 1962. The model and serial number are stamped on the flat casting right below the air cleaner on the left side of the tractor. Google "John Smith" and "Ford"; the first hit you get should be Smith's Old Ford Tractors. Click on the "tractor ID/history" link and scroll down to find serial numbers and build dates for your machine.

[/i:2a1280e8f1]

I was afraid that's where it went....that hole is plugged with something, probably the old probe.

Good call on the metal, though. The guy who did all of the rewiring evidently also replaced the original hood with one from a 1957 601. That's what I thought we had for several years, until I tried to start working on it.

Josh Tallent · Apr 30, 2017

Hmm, yeah, might be the remains of the old probe. I replaced the head gasket in my 860 over the winter; when I went to remove the temperature probe, the capillary tube just broke off from the probe, leaving the probe itself stuck in the head. Fortunately I was able to grab the little guy with a plier and pull it out. I think you could also tap it with a small punch, just enough to deform the metal and break it loose, then remove with a plier. Good luck!

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