Alternatives to straight 30?

It appears no one has any suggestions for my TO-20 oil loss problems... so I guess I've no choice but to fill her up again, and keep trying to hunt down the cause. One thing I failed to mention is my pressure has always read low. Well at least since I replaced all of the gauges! The old O.P. gauge didn't work, so I don't know.

At least I buy the oil by the case.
But still... I hate the waste.

But I heard someone say he and many others have moved away from straight 30 weight... to some multi-viscosity stuff. I think perhaps some 15W40? (And I believe some diesel oil was mentioned... but of course my girl is a gasser! Hmm. I like the sound of that!)

Anyway, can anyone clue me into the thinking there?

My owner's manual calls for straight 30... and it's hard to think of deviating from that... but it was written nearly 70 years ago! So I'm willing to at least listen.

Hopefully before I go and buy another case!

(That's case, NOT Case!
I'm not there yet with my IH!)

Thanks for any suggestions!

The 10w-40 or 15w-40 diesel oil is a favorite replacement for the straight 30. A couple of reasons, the multi grade flows better when cold, and some of the diesel oils still have the zinc additive that works well with flat tappet lifters. All of the gas oils have removed the zinc (tree huger action) because most modern engines have gone to roller cams.

It also works well in the transmission. It's just a little thinner, makes the hydraulics work better in cold weather.

I went back and read the old post. Everything makes sense except the oil blowing out the intake... Unless someone has rerouted the crankcase breather to the air filter, that is something I have never seen happen.

It will burn more 15-40 than it will straight 30. Use some 50wt.
Is there a stuck intake valve or the valve lash too tight ?

Both Quaker State and Castrol sell 30 wt oil. Your starter will not like 50 weight on a cold morning. Too heavy.

Get out of the big oil aisle at Walmart and go to a good auto parts store.

I read your article below. There are a lot of unknowns about the tractor. As you stated there were a few minor leaks and it sounds like you fixed the major
one. Have you ever done a compression check on engine ? What do the spark plugs look like they can tell you whats going on inside a engine. As for oil 10w30 or
15w40 will do the same as 30w oil. If you live in a cold climate and don't do any real heavy work with tractor use 10w30. 15w40 gets very thick when
temperatures get into teens and colder.

get the coolant temp up to 195 and work it to dislodge the gunk from around the piston rings.
Is the oil drainback in the cylinder head plugged ?
50wt ain't gonna hurt nuthin. How does anybody think the detroit two strokes ran? The SF-2 rated Detroit Oil low ash spec will also reduce ash deposits and fouling.

Wow.
Thank you all!!
Every single reply was very helpful!

I'll study each one again and reply where appropriate.

You got me curious is there a difference between say Valvoline 10/40 at Wall-Mart and Valvoline 10/40 at a Auto parts store. I just used Valvoline as an example. Wall-Mart carries most major brands. I happen to buy Valvoline for my cars, truck and gas tractors and Rotunda 15/40 for the diesel tractor.

Thanks!
That makes sense.

Except as you said of the blowout!
Never seen that either. And what makes it stranger is that it wasn't doing it before I worked on it! So no boneheads to blame other than myself. Nor do I have any enemies smart enough to play that kind of trick on me. But I know it's not voodoo, so there has to be a reason. So I plan to do as others advised, refill her and do more pressure checks.

I don't yet know how (other than the gauge) to gauge the cc pressure. There seems to be some tiny (seized) valve on the side of the crankcase. But since the reservoir/pan's low and oil's coming out high... something's pumping it up there.

I've been trying to avoid considering it... (not wanting it to be the case...)
but the ONLY thing that makes any sense is an internally cracked head!!

So don't be shy with any other possibilities... or worry if they sound silly!

The sticking point is that it didn't seem to be... NO, it was NOT doing it before!?! And I know I didn't crack anything by changing the oil! No over-heating, or heavy loading. Just basic idle-test running.

I've not changed the plugs, but already bought them a while back. That'll be a good opportunity to pressure check each cyl.

But to me, it sounded good running before and after. I don't notice a difference. But I'm no expert!

Thanks!
I'll keep that in mind.

As for the valves, I don't know.
But that's another/better possibility than a cracked head.

Trying to run it with the cover off was another thought. But that wouldn't be simple... and I'm not sure that's even a good idea to try. I guess it wouldn't be that bad... may just have to pull the tank.

Is trying that something you'd suggest?

My thinking is it might tell me for sure if I gotta have it rebuilt.
Because I may be too used to modern cars/trucks not running well and sounding like crap when the slightest things go wrong... whereas this 120 engine seems almost unstoppable!

I don't want to be the one to hurt it... but I 'AM' impressed!!

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind. She's more of a 'want' than a 'need' so I rarely'd have to use her when the weather is too adverse/cold. But that's good to know.

I buy my 30W by the case from Napa. I've had good results from buying their name-brand fluids in the past, and their stuff seems to give me a good performance at a good price across my fleet. But I'd love to hear what others think, and I'll take a look at what Walmart has to offer.

Thanks!
I've added a bit more info in some other replies and (for everyone's sake) I'll try not to repeat too much. I tend to get 'wordy'.

But I haven't had any ignition problems or noticed any abnormal fouling.

And when the oil streams out...
it looks 'as GOLD as new'!!

So due to that (and the lack of smoke) I don't think any of this involves the combustion chambers.

But I'll soon be pilling/replacing her plugs, and will have a chance to give that another look.

Thanks again!

I have gotten the temp up... but the drain back is a good point. Something could be plugged... perhaps by crap dislodged when I changed the oil. (It's possible her previous owner wasn't as aynal as I am about oil changes) I've noticed with some of my other antique vehicles that that sometimes happens (but more so with transmissions)! I think that may be related to the sudden presence of detergents in the additive package.

Have you (or anyone else) tried using that Seafoam product in tractors? It's supposed to act as a cleaner stabilizer protectant.

But I don't have the nerve to risk being the 1st to try it. Especially not in my Fergie!

Although I can't see how it could hurt.

No all i'm saying is For me I can rarely find any straight weights at Walmart. Auto parts stores tend to have them.

The company that I drove for had 5-9500 series GMC tractors powered with Detroit two strokes and ran nothing but Rotella T 15w40. Actually every truck in
fleet used 15w40 .

Are you 100% positive that it's oil coming out the carb? Any way it is gas you see dripping?

For it to be loosing oil out the intake, it would have to have several serious problems, like a stuck open or broken intake valve, and the same cylinder have a broken piston, or stuck, burned out rings. If that were the case it would be running terrible, the other cylinders would be sucking in oil, smoking!

If it does turn out to be gas, which is a common problem with updraft carbs, that needs to be fixed. It should be running way rich if it's dripping while it's running, loading up, black smoke. If it only drips when the engine is off, it needs the float adjusted, or has trash in the needle/seat, or the float is sunk. The carb is simple, field serviceable, don't be afraid of it.

It's not a cracked head. I've never seen one of those engines so carboned that it couldn't drain down. The oil that passes through the head is metered in, only a tiny amount gets up there, just enough to oil the rockers. Symptoms of a head cracked into an oil galley are oil in the radiator, or external oil leak. Very rare for that to happen, it is more likely a head gasket. Typically a head cracks across an exhaust valve seat, not common for that model. When that happens it will loose coolant, steam out the exhaust, overheat. Still, when those symptoms appear, it's usually a head gasket.

The company That I drove for had 5-9500 series GMC tractors powered with Detroit two strokes and ran nothing but Rotella T 15w40. Actually every truck in
fleet used 15w40 .

I have '52 TO30 that I use Rotella 15W-40 in with no problems starting in Colorado winters with a 6 volt system. The zinc in the diesel oil
is supposed to lubricate better as others said before. On occasion I have used Marvel mystery oil in the oil and it appears to keep the
engine pretty clean. You will hear all sorts of pros and cons on the different oils and additives. My TO30 is doing OK with my selection so
I'll stick to it. As for your oil problems have you checked the timing? It sounds like the intake valve is not closing at the right time and
the piston is moving up forcing air and oil through the intake. When you put the distributor back in it might be a little off as you have to
compensate for the turn when the gears mesh back together. You might have some luck posting your problem with the Harry Ferguson group. They
are my go to fellows. John(UK) is a great contact if you can get a hold of him. He used to build the Ferguson tractors and is a wealth of
information. I had situation a few years ago where my tractor was blowing air out of the air filter canister which blew oil everywhere.
After banging my head on the wall for days I found that my plug wires were in the right firing order. After that when I do repairs I don't
assume anything is right so I check and recheck. Fortunately the Ferguson is a pretty tough tractor and can put up with my mistakes.

Ah!
I see.
Sorry for the mis-read.
You are absolutely right!
Thanks!

2 DR SPORTSTER:
Ah!
I see.
Sorry for the mis-read.
You are absolutely right!
Thanks!

(sorry for the duplication! The system says editing&deletion are disabled!?!)

2 Steve@Advance:

Re: "Any way it is gas you see dripping?"
No.
That's on the other side. The only gas leaks she has is from when I tried to clean the screen, only to find it missing, then I replaced the sediment bowl assy, then replaced it again!). But that's above the starter on the side opposite the carb. There are no gas leaks anywhere near the carb (or anywhere else. Just at the glass sediment bowl.

Re: "Are you 100% positive that it's oil coming out the carb?"
I'm sorry for not being clear. (Is there a way to post pics? There must be!?!)
The oil is NOT coming through the carb. No where near it. The carb is connected to a hose that's connected to a pipe which is connected to the air-cleaner/anklebone... which has an oil-bath in it. That's where the oil streams out. Here's the seq of events:

1. Oil change.

2. Oil leaks from filter-cover on pan.

3. Fix that. No leaks. I'm happy, refill to full on the dipstick.

4. She starts on the first crank, sounds and idles fine.

5. Rubbing her under-belly for oil, bone-dry/Hands clean/very happy.

6. Notice she's p-ing oil like r-horse out the air-cleaner!?! So I'm like... okay. It obviously has to be air-cleaner-oil. (Didn't think there was that much in there!?)

7. Some time passes as I'm checking the canister-clamp, the yahda-yahda... and the general wt-heck!?! (Oil res still full btw!)

8. With no success, I eventually remove the oil res. STILL SQUIRTING!?!

9. Not being able to imagine where it could be coming from... I shut her down. (And tried a few more brief times.)

10. Seemed to be coming from nowhere! (Bout-ta call G.Busters to ask if ectoplasm was gold!) So I removed the air hose(to the carb), felt for oil, but found no trace of oil inside.

11. Knowing it had to be coming from somewhere, I checked where I'd just put it... and THE DIPSTICK WAS DRY!! Okay, won't start her again till I know the 'in's!

12. No oil in the coolant. No smoke in the exhaust!! No other leaks on the ground.

13. So I'm lost!!!

14. Much later, my crack-head theory came from me thinking oil might be squirting (unseen, perhaps from behind, onto the air-cleaner-canister... and dripping down from the outside.

15. Not wanting to start her up again, till I understand where all our oil went...

I joined this forum.

If I can figure out how, I'll post a pic under the other/original/more-appropriate thread.

In any case,
Thanks Steve!!

Wow!!
Thanks Go4Broke2!!
Great tips!

And Re: " I had situation a few years ago where my tractor was blowing air out of the air filter canister which blew oil everywhere.
After banging my head on the wall for days I found that my plug wires were in the right firing order. After that when I do repairs I don't
assume anything is right so I check and recheck. Fortunately the Ferguson is a pretty tough tractor and can put up with my mistakes."

That sounds like it may be my problem!
(Except for my dry dipstick!?!
But maybe to oil's hiding somewhere else...
like forced into the tranny maybe?)

That would be why they had so many problems with scored rings, sleeves pistons and plugged exhaust ports.

Just wondering if the oil is coming from either a loose fitting or a cracked line going to the oil pressure gauge. Maybe it is spraying on
the air cleaner from behind. I'm not sure where the oil pressure gauge is in relation to the air cleaner, but on the TO-30 they are close.
It's defenitely not going into the tranny or it would be pouring out of the two weep holes where the cotter pins are under the center
section. Let us know what you finally figure out. A lot of fellows start the conversation and then never finish by telling us what they
figured out.

Will do!
It's not the oil gauge line.
I replaced all the gauges, so I know.
Both ends of that are dry.

I sure wish there was a way I could post pics to show you how&where it was streaming out. I tried and tried... but no joy!

Those little Fergies will run pretty darn good and even start good with the plug wires on wrong and you can hear it popping back in the air filter cup. I bought one non running and they had the right firing order just the wrong rotation of dist rotor but once I got starter to engage flywheel it started and run pretty good but you could hear it popping in the oil bath. Just something to check.

I assume it is a Continental Z-120 engine in it. If there is a small tube running to the canister, as well as a rubber hose, then I found something in the archives that might be the answer.

Thanks for that info Randy!
I'm now thinking that's gotta be it.

I checked today and it looks like the firing order is right... BUT... looking at all the pics I have in one original owner's manual I found... and it looks like the distributer may be in the wrong position. And it may even be the wrong one for all I know! I'm not going to even attempt to start it though, until I buy a case of the right oil and I may just order a new cap, condenser, points and wires while I'm at it. The coil seems okay, but I'll probably replace it too.

Reading that manual makes also me believe my valves probably need servicing. But I'll probably hold off till spring. Hopefully I'll have my workshop cleared by then. 'Cause knowing me, once I get the cover off... I'll probably want to do lots of other stuff... like buying one of the kits I found and just having the whole engine rebuilt! (My lift cyl leaks too! As in won't hold up an implement long when she's off.)

After surviving SEVENTY years... I think she deserves it!

Fixing the oil/timing problem aught to be a safe compromise point to get the work done I'd like her to do till then.

To post pictures 1. Click on reply to a persons post, screen will come up to log on to.2. Put your email and password then click log in, screen will come up. 3. Now scroll down and click on upload photo another screen will appear in the small box.
4. OK now click on were it says browse If your pictures are on the desktop you should now see them If not look to the left and click on pictures you should be able to select your picture from there. once you found the picture you want 5. Click on the picture then click open. 6.Now next to were it says browse click upload. It may take a moment to load the picture once you see the picture click continue Note: the picture is in the large message square but is a sequence of letters and numbers to see it 7. scroll up and click preview. 8. Now scroll the page up again your picture should be there if all is ok 9. scroll back down and click submit, Your done Hope this helps
Byron

Thanks!
It is a Z120...
but I've not seen/noticed a small tube going to the canister. But I'll look again. But either way, I'd like to hear about what you found!

Thanks Byron,
I got to #7 several times... and then nothing. I'm assuming at 1st my pics were too big. So I scaled them down to ~150kb but that still didn't work. I did see the pics in the small preview window, but not in the big one. Just a tag that said but nothing else. I prepared and am trying to upload 2 pics. I tried to do that together, then one by one, with no success at all.

One thing that might problem is I'm using Firefox. Perhaps the site's code only likes Windows crap... like Explorer.