Another, help with broken bolts thread.

Brian Ski

Member
I know this is a tractor forum, but I am thinking the topic should be close. BTW I have gone back through the threads for many year here to get info. Thanks for all the help offered to others.

My story... I have an 1988 Ford 460 V8. I was told the exhaust manifold bolts are VERY hard to get out. The factory bolts have been in there for almost 30 years. In the process of trying to get the exhaust manifolds off, even with a lot of heat, I broke a couple bolts. I got a couple out and finally torched off the heads of the bolts, and pulled the manifolds. Ok... I sat at 6 6 6. 6 broken (2 were broken before me), 6 removed, and 6 studs sticking out (the ones I torched the heads off the bolts). BTW torching the bolt heads off was a bear. They just would not cut with a torch. I was thinking maybe I was getting low on Acetylene. Or getting tired. Almost empty, refilled this morning.

A buddy stopped by today and with the fun tricks I learned from here and others, (Acetone and ATF mix, Candle wax, heating and cooling) a better score, 7 broken bolts, 11 removed. We had to use a LOT of heat to gt them out.

Ok he said he is fair at blowing out the bolts with a torch. We gave it a try for a while and it would not work, it was starting to melt the casting. Hmmm Well we made a jig to drill out the remaining bolts. First one we tried the bit would barely cut it. He asked is that the same bit? (The one we used to make he drill guide) Yep same one. We are out of ideas. Well I grab a magnet and it does not stick to the bolts. ??? Maybe the factory used stainless bolts. That is why there is so much of a problem.

Ok how to you drill out stainless bolts???

What kind of bolt is this??? The markings are... There is a C with 3 small dot in a triangle under it, stamped in the middle of the head, and on the washer rim, it looks like a U, an 8 and the last is hard to read, it looks like a 6 on an angle.
 
As soon as I read "460 V8", I knew where this was going! BTDT, not fun!

Not sure what the markings mean, but that the bolts are non magnetic, they are stainless.

The numbers on the head could indicate they are metric, but I would think that engine is SAE. Look at the ones you got out to be sure what thread they are.

Using the drill guide was a great idea! Last thing you want to do is drill in crooked and destroy the thread! Problem with trying to drill hard bolts with a hand drill is getting enough pressure to make the drill bit bite. If you can concoct enough ways to pry against the drill, it can be done, but it is labor intensive!

My psychic abilities are envisioning a motor home, correct? Or maybe it's PTSD!!!

Which makes removing the heads the last thing you want to do!

But, when all the laying underneath for days is over, that might be the easiest option. Especially if the gasket surface was damaged by the torch.

When going back together, I would try to buy the bolts from the dealer. If they don't have them look online at some of the performance shops. There have been several design changes on those, lots of different bolt lengths, so be careful what you buy. Be sure to use anti seize or teflon tape on the threads.

The best gasket I have found is a Mr. Gasket copper composition gasket. Again, lots of different designs. I found them online at Jegs. Be sure to retorque when it's hot.

Have fun! I feel your pain!
 
From 20 plus years owning a machine shop I have taken out my fair share of broken bolts. Most folks don't go to the machine shop until they have broken off a drill bit and a few EZ-Out's down in the crooked
hole. At that point a Tap-Burner" or die sink EDM is about the only hope. If you still have any portion of the bolt left after you cut the head off try cleaning it up and welding a new nut to the old bolt
shank. Using an impact wrench will some time get them out. With some heat and the sharp instant shock they may break loose. If it start to move, don't get greedy. work the bolt in and out with the air
wrench. Patience is a virtue here! If it breaks it off, you are no worse off. At that point I would suggest stopping and taking the head to a shop that can line it up[ in a knee mill and use a carbide end
mill to cut the bolt out. The idea is to just "bump the thread. Most times the remaining bolt material can be spun right out. The Acetone and ATF mix, Candle wax mix is excellent!! Also ZEP (available on
Amazon) make a product with Teflon in it to loosen nasty items like this! Good Luck!!
 

New Cobalt drill bits and drill slow never drill fast on stainless lots of constant pressure lots of lube don't let the drill bit get to hot or you will just work harden the bolt. I have drilled thousands of stainless and titanium Bolts and hilocs out on aircraft. Drill in steps 3/32 1/8/ 3/16 1/4 5/16 ect.. the last drill will need to be not just under the size of the bolts smooth shank but under the size of the threads of the bolt I always found it best to start with 3/32 seems to cut best to start out with, but you need a straight shot on the shank of the bolt its a very thin drill bit so you must use care to stay on it straight or you will break it. Otherwise start with a 1/8 or whatever you feel comfortable with. We used what they called BOELUBE 70200-40 BOELUBE MACHINING LUBRICANT - 3.5 OZ. $7.54 I believe its Made by Boeing you can buy it on amazon
Good luck Byron
 

If you decide to weld a nut on it I would take a rivet gun and a flush set and hit it like your trying to drive it in before you put the nut on That a lot of times will loosen the bolt enough to allow it to be removed in one piece.



.
 
(reply to post at 02:56:34 06/10/16)
36783.jpg


Aircraft Aviation Tools 4" & 8" Screw Extractor (Screw Knocker, Old Man) (NEW) Ebay This works in your rivet gun It removes hard to remove screws and bolts It has an adapter for screws to fit apex tips & if you cut down a 3/8 drive socket it removes most stuck bolts as well. sorry for all the posts wish they had edit.
 
(quoted from post at 23:32:34 06/09/16) The numbers on the head could indicate they are metric, but I would think that engine is SAE. Look at the ones you got out to be sure what thread they are.

My psychic abilities are envisioning a motor home, correct? Or maybe it's PTSD!!!

Have fun! I feel your pain!

No, I picked up a sweet 88 F250. This thing is clean. No exhaust when I got it. After I got it home it had a little engine noise. Wrist pin?? Rod?? Eh will deal with it. Well it is time to deal with it. The engine is out and almost torn apart. Just the darn manifold to head bolts are crazy.

I was thinking of putting the head on a drill press. Just the intake to exhaust side is just a couple degrees off from being parallel.

BTW the bolts are 3/8 -16. Interesting every single bolt on that engine was SAE except the bolts that went from the motor mount to an adapter plate on the block.
 
(quoted from post at 09:41:07 06/10/16) From 20 plus years owning a machine shop I have taken out my fair share of broken bolts. Most folks don't go to the machine shop until they have broken off a drill bit and a few EZ-Out's down in the crooked
hole. At that point a Tap-Burner" or die sink EDM is about the only hope. If you still have any portion of the bolt left after you cut the head off try cleaning it up and welding a new nut to the old bolt
shank. Using an impact wrench will some time get them out. With some heat and the sharp instant shock they may break loose.

The ones that are left are all broken out flush or undercut. I know what you mean about broken off eazy outs. I learned that years ago. If a bolt breaks because you over torqued it, an easy out or left handed bit will work, but if it is fused in place the easy out will just strip or snap off.

By hand got 6 out, we got 5 more out with a LOT of heat. but the last 7 are bad.

(quoted from post at 09:43:28 06/10/16)
Did you try a left handed drill bit? They made a believer out of me.

I got a couple but these things are so hard a regular bit is barely scratching them.
 
(quoted from post at 19:38:54 06/10/16)
New Cobalt drill bits and drill slow ..... I have drilled thousands of stainless and titanium Bolts and hilocs out on aircraft. Drill in steps 3/32 1/8/ 3/16 1/4 5/16 ect.. .... We used what they called BOELUBE 70200-40 BOELUBE MACHINING LUBRICANT - 3.5 OZ. $7.54 I believe its Made by Boeing you can buy it on amazon
Good luck Byron

Yep, just picked up a few Cobalt bits this morning. 3/32 is a little small for me, but will try a 1/8. I am thinking if I take a little model clay and make a pond the lube can sit in, it may help me out. I am looking for the boelube next.

Aircraft Aviation Tools 4" & 8" Screw Extractor (Screw Knocker, Old Man) (NEW) Ebay This works in your rivet gun

I have never seen anything like that before. I am guessing you mean air chisel not rivet gun?? or?? I am used to hand rivet guns.

I have drilled thousands of stainless and titanium Bolts and hilocs out on aircraft.

What cha doin Saturday???? Haha

Thanks everyone for the help. Got plenty to do this weekend so maybe I will order the lube.

BTW welding on a nut. I think I have some stainless rod. Maybe it is the stainless, but when these bolts come out, they look brand new. They are not rusted in place, they seem to be swelled.
 
With the heads off, for gosh sake, take them to a machine shop or find a Bridgeport mill. That will drill them right out!
 
(quoted from post at 02:59:14 06/11/16)
(quoted from post at 19:38:54 06/10/16)
New Cobalt drill bits and drill slow ..... I have drilled thousands of stainless and titanium Bolts and hilocs out on aircraft. Drill in steps 3/32 1/8/ 3/16 1/4 5/16 ect.. .... We used what they called BOELUBE 70200-40 BOELUBE MACHINING LUBRICANT - 3.5 OZ. $7.54 I believe its Made by Boeing you can buy it on amazon
Good luck Byron

Yep, just picked up a few Cobalt bits this morning. 3/32 is a little small for me, but will try a 1/8. I am thinking if I take a little model clay and make a pond the lube can sit in, it may help me out. I am looking for the boelube next.

Aircraft Aviation Tools 4" & 8" Screw Extractor (Screw Knocker, Old Man) (NEW) Ebay This works in your rivet gun

I have never seen anything like that before. I am guessing you mean air chisel not rivet gun?? or?? I am used to hand rivet guns.

I have drilled thousands of stainless and titanium Bolts and hilocs out on aircraft.

What cha doin Saturday???? Haha

Thanks everyone for the help. Got plenty to do this weekend so maybe I will order the lube.

BTW welding on a nut. I think I have some stainless rod. Maybe it is the stainless, but when these bolts come out, they look brand new. They are not rusted in place, they seem to be swelled.

Air chisel kind of the same thing but not as controllable Most air chisels have a round trigger rivet guns have a pistol trigger. Air chisel maybe ok with a air regulator. you can find em cheep at pawn shops.
 
(quoted from post at 02:33:50 06/11/16)
(quoted from post at 23:32:34 06/09/16) The numbers on the head could indicate they are metric, but I would think that engine is SAE. Look at the ones you got out to be sure what thread they are.

My psychic abilities are envisioning a motor home, correct? Or maybe it's PTSD!!!

Have fun! I feel your pain!

No, I picked up a sweet 88 F250. This thing is clean. No exhaust when I got it. After I got it home it had a little engine noise. Wrist pin?? Rod?? Eh will deal with it. Well it is time to deal with it. The engine is out and almost torn apart. Just the darn manifold to head bolts are crazy.

I was thinking of putting the head on a drill press. Just the intake to exhaust side is just a couple degrees off from being parallel.

BTW the bolts are 3/8 -16. Interesting every single bolt on that engine was SAE except the bolts that went from the motor mount to an adapter plate on the block.

Drill press would be the best thing if you have the heads off and you HAVE to do it yourself. You can put a lot of constant pressure and control the speed with a drill press. Its not an easy job to hand drill those bolts takes a lot of pressure. It would be easy enough to shim the head straight and level & clamp the head down .Center punch the bolt studs to get the best start and the drill wont walk on ya.
Best of luck what ever you decide
Byron
 

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