Are these bad starter pinion gear teeth?

homer14

Member
Starter grinding and whining noise started last week. Got to it today. Took starter off, flywheel ring gear looks fine and turns with flywheel (not loose).

Starter armature shaft is not corroded, was kind of dirty but not too bad. Cleaned that.

Took the starter drive pinion gear off. Looking at it the teeth seem to be worn off. Shouldn't they be symmetrical if looking directly at them evenly? I attached a picture to try to show what i am seeing.

If you guys agree, assuming i need to grab a new starter drive and thats it?

-Homer
mvphoto13847.jpg
 

also, i noticed part 52-11350C and part 52-11350C-PD. YT sells the first one and if i understand correctly it may need some tweaks to mounting holes or something while the other doesnt?

the PD is the newer model and i should get that elsewhere, that if if people agree the teeth on it are my problem (see pic)
 
From the picture, I don't see any wear. Nothing that would cause a problem anyway.

What kind of grinding are you having? As in the starter spins, grinding the flywheel and the engine not turning? Or is it still working, just noisy?

Recheck the bushing in the end of the starter nose, the lock ring and thrust washer that holds the drive gear on the shaft, and the plunger linkage.

Can't really see what type drive that is, but assuming it has a one way clutch, the clutch should have a noticeable drag turning one way, and impossible to turn the other way. If it spins freely, it's worn out.

Also inspect the ring gear all the way around. The gear will wear more where the engine always stops coming up on compression, so it won't wear evenly all the way around. The teeth will wear from the front, rounding over until the starter gear can no longer mesh with them. Another problem with certain models, the gear will migrate back on the flywheel. Be sure it is seated against the stop all the way around the flywheel.
 
(quoted from post at 21:03:29 12/13/14) From the picture, I don't see any wear. Nothing that would cause a problem anyway.

What kind of grinding are you having? As in the starter spins, grinding the flywheel and the engine not turning? Or is it still working, just noisy?

Recheck the bushing in the end of the starter nose, the lock ring and thrust washer that holds the drive gear on the shaft, and the plunger linkage.

Can't really see what type drive that is, but assuming it has a one way clutch, the clutch should have a noticeable drag turning one way, and impossible to turn the other way. If it spins freely, it's worn out.

Also inspect the ring gear all the way around. The gear will wear more where the engine always stops coming up on compression, so it won't wear evenly all the way around. The teeth will wear from the front, rounding over until the starter gear can no longer mesh with them. Another problem with certain models, the gear will migrate back on the flywheel. Be sure it is seated against the stop all the way around the flywheel.

grinding = starter spins but flywheel not getting engaged so motor doesnt turn, only the starter. battery is full, even jumped with a 12v just to be sure, same result.

being amateur, i twisted the middle part out to the point where it wont go back in until i either put it in and start it, or use the bench grinder wire brush trick. but ive attached more pics..

if the clutch you mention is the near end part with the little teeth allowing it to only turn one way or clicking rolling off the teeth the other way, then yes i can confirm i have drag going in the direction that the teeth lock and cannot turn it the other way.

ill inspect the ring gear 100% around tomorrow in the light. i did inspect it some where it sat right where i took the starter out and it looked ok, even turned it some but not full 360. the ring gear is not slipping or loose looking or anything, it seems to be turning the flywheel or whatever ok.

ill check that the gear is against whatever it is supposed to be as you said (perhaps pushing it toward the read of the tractor?) will let me see if there is play?

i could make a youtube video of me playing with this drive component if it helped anyone.

the only part i see any wear is on the teeth at the very end. each tooth is worn slight different so i can tell its wear. but its just the last 1/8th inch or so. so if more than 1/8th an inch grab the ring gear then im sure youre right and there is no issue there...

hmmm.


mvphoto13866.jpg


mvphoto13867.jpg


mvphoto13868.jpg


mvphoto13869.jpg
 
The teeth look good. if the ratchet clutch is
working. I think the problem is either the teeth
on the flywheel or the drive is not kicking out
for some reason.

I wouldn't buy any drive that requires making the
starter hole larger.

I bought an original style drive for my 9n years
back and it's still working fine.
 
I can see what type starter drive you have now. There is no clutch on that type, only the ratchet drive, and that rarely causes trouble. From the 4th picture, the engagement looks good. The teeth also look good, so I doubt there is a flywheel gear problem.

Looks more like the drive is not spinning out to engage the flywheel. You noticed the drive will spiral out and lock. Once it's out and locked, it won't retract until the engine starts and spins it fast enough to release the lock. So, if it failed to start, and you pulled the starter, the drive would still be spun out and locked.

A couple of things can cause the drive to not spiral out.

Cold, hard grease on the spiral, dirt, grit, worn and binding spiral threads. The drive looks to be in excellent condition and clean. If it was nasty and binding, and you cleaned it up, it may work now.

Another cause is a low battery, bad connection, or bad starter, not having enough sudden acceleration to spiral the gear out.

Now that everything is cleaned up, might try putting it back on and try it. If it still doesn't engage check the voltage between the starter terminal and the starter case. Be sure it's up around 4 1/2 to 5 v for a 6 v system, or 9 to 10 v for a 12 v system.

If the voltage is low, check all the connections back to the battery. If it's high, and the starter sounds sluggish, could be a bad internal connection.
 
Steve...

Is he missing a thin bushing INSIDE the pinion gear?

Or doesn't that style of drive use one?
 
I had a similar problem, replaced the ring gear, still did it. Took off the inspection plate under the torque tube and had friend hit the starter. The ring gear was turning on the flywheel.
 
When you check your ring gear on the flywheel be
sure to turn it both directions or put a mark on
the ring gear and flywheel and turn it manaully or
with the starter and see if the marks still line
up. Have your started checked out for amperage
draw at your local parts store.
 
Iooks to me the "ratchet teeth" next to the drum are worn causing it to sIip under the pressure (best view is in the second pic)
 
Those teeth look practically new. I can see the tool marks on the bevels and even some on the tooth faces. If the engine doesn't turn when the starter grinds I'd say it was the ratchet. May not be seating all the way back when the starter releases. I don't see any evidence that the gear is slipping.
 
I spun the ring gear/flywheel in both directions after putting chalk marks in a couple of spots. when the marks came back around they were in the same spots and lined up. so i think this means the ring gear is still connected well to the flywheel?

do i need to load the drive gear before reinstalling it or will the starting of it after being placed back in the tractor take care of that? im happy to load it but ill have to go get a bench grinder wire brush component to do that trick.

nothing looks dirty really. the only oily dirt looking stuff i saw was on the armature shaft itself which is gone now.

those ratchet gear teeth look ok to everyone? they seem bent looking but they do connect tight when i turn it by hand.
 
I spun the ring gear/flywheel in both directions after putting chalk marks in a couple of spots. when the marks came back around they were in the same spots and lined up. so i think this means the ring gear is still connected well to the flywheel?

do i need to load the drive gear before reinstalling it or will the starting of it after being placed back in the tractor take care of that? im happy to load it but ill have to go get a bench grinder wire brush component to do that trick.

nothing looks dirty really. the only oily dirt looking stuff i saw was on the armature shaft itself which is gone now.

those ratchet gear teeth look ok to everyone? they seem bent looking but they do connect tight when i turn it by hand.
 
thanks everyone for helping!

i decided before i put in a new starter drive to try it out one last time now that it has been cleaned. i put it back together slapped it in the tractor and it started right up.

i did not re-load the starter drive, i let the tractor's startup do it for me.

not sure why it failed, maybe attribute it to the oily stuff i saw on the armature shaft?

-Homer
 

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