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Restoration & Repair Tips Board

My 2N shuts down when leaning left

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Dave Harnish

10-14-2012 18:41:37
173.86.53.162



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I've put up with this extremely frustrating issue for many years now with my otherwise faithful old 'workhorse' 2N, and it's getting worse again.

Whenever running with the tractor leaning to the left, especially facing downhill, she floods out and stalls after about 10 seconds, and is nearly impossible to restart without letting her sit for an hour. When I do finally get her to restart, she sputters and blows black smoke for a little while before getting up to speed.

I've thoroughly cleaned out the tank, bowl and fuel line screens, *replaced* the carb with a new one, checked the float level countless times, re-routed the copper fuel line, all with no change.

My neighbor has a 9N with the same carb and fuel system, and his will run up, down, left or right, on any hill, with no problem.

I've about had it with this. Have never heard of anyone else having this issue, but suspect it's something simple I'm missing. Thought the new carb would solve it, but it didn't.

Any ideas are welcome. I've owned this old girl for some 35 years now, but have begun thinking it's time for a new one. Wish I could afford it.

PS - Have run Mobil One synthetic oil in this 2N for many years, and it's made a HUGE difference when using her in winter.

Thanks! Dave Harnish, New Albany, PA
drs@sosbbs.com
www.DavesRepair.com

John 14:6

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Dave Harnish

10-26-2012 07:56:12
173.86.53.162



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
Guys,

Thanks immensely for all your help on this problem with my dear old 2N ('Beulah'). After nearly 30 years of suffering with this issue, she's *finally* working right again! The people on this forum are amazing!

I can't tell you how exciting it is to drive my old girl anywhere I want to now, without worrying about which way she's leaning. I actually took her down across the side-hill of our hayfield last evening, leaning hard to the left all the way, and she purred like that famous kitten!

I ended up jacking and blocking her right side up about 8" in the barn and checking her over while up on the blocks. Made it a lot easier than dealing with this out in the field, that's for sure!

Even after rebuilding the old carb, as soon as I turned the gas petcock on, fuel overflowed out the air intake, so I knew, finally, that the float was definitely the issue.

Coated the floats with candle soot and carefully reinstalled them, then turned the carb upside down and back upright a few times while leaning it left (had already checked them for leaks).

With no marks from the floats rubbing the bowl, and having checked everything else about a dozen times, I bit the bullet and ordered a Zenith #13876 (Btw, YT had the best price I found anywhere)

I'm really impressed with the Zenith so far; this Ford runs better than it ever did! Smooth acceleration from idle - something I could never get 100% right with either the original or replacement M/S TSX33 - and much smoother running all around.

I should've done this a couple of decades ago! It has always just boggled my little mind that two M/S carbs would have the same issue, but they did - one brand new, right out of the box.

And I appreciate that the Zeniths are still made in the USA. That's rare these days.

Anyway, Thanks again, you guys, I *really* appreciate all your amazingly generous help. Guess my wife's right, I don't get out enough, but I'm so excited to have my tractor back, I'm looking for any excuse to use it today!

If I can ever be of any help to any of you, please get in touch.

God bless you all,

Dave Harnish
New Albany, PA
www.DavesRepair.com

Acts 4:12

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Kly

10-20-2012 20:10:28
204.77.178.135



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
I have a friend with a 51 8n. it stops running when he turns to the right on a side hill.



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jackinok

10-17-2012 13:39:10
162.58.82.136



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
check for SIDE PLAY on your float.if it gets enough side play, or if the float simply sits too close to the side of carb, it will hang when tractor leans to one side.if it hangs and float is up it wont allow fuel in and you simply run out of gas in bowl.once its empty if you move tractor, tap carb or whatever it drops and tractor runs again.to check,, remove drain plug from bottom of carb,install a hose barb with about six inches of clear tubing tied up so you can see level of fuel in bowl. if it drops when you lean left,youve found your problem. one other thing and MOST LIKELY,,,, worn out front axle pin/bushing!!!! lean it left and downhill,axle comes up and hits dist cap.when it does it moves and stops firing. you get it on the level rotor turns, recenters cap ,and presto bingo your running again! been there done that also. its not at ALL uncommon on these. look at the bottom right hand nipple on yur dist cap if its broken axle has hit it and youve likely found your problem! try simply moving cap. if it moves on dist base, locating pins are gone,most likely from axle hitting it.

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8N'r--WI

10-17-2012 09:02:07
12.104.244.6



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
Dave--I have seen this mentioned in 2 of the posts below, and as simple as it sounds, could it simply be you are running with low fuel in the tank...?

It happened twice to me, with an 8N, mowing where the tractor was leaning slightly to the left. Tractor just sputtered and stopped..

I had to go on reserve tank to get it started both times.

Just a thought.

Tim



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Dave Harnish

10-17-2012 13:23:28
173.86.53.162



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to 8N'r--WI, 10-17-2012 09:02:07  
Hi Tim, and all,

Thanks for all the suggestions, I appreciate the help immensely! You guys are a tremendous encouragement to me on this, and I'm more determined than ever to find and fix the problem now.

I've run into that low fuel issue before Tim, yes, and try to make sure it's nearly full now. None of the land up here on our old mountain farm is flat, so running side-hill is the norm. ;-)

(Re: those leaning left shutting down - AMEN! I've given up on this country, I'm sorry to say. Unless God intervenes (and we've ejected Him from our society, so why would He?), the USA as we've always known it is done.)

Anyway, enough of that. I tried moving the wiring around with it running today, pushing, pulling tilting the harness tube to the left, etc, and it never skipped a beat. The battery has a homemade strap on it and does move around just a little, but not enough to let the neg. terminal make any contact to ground.

I'm planning on draining the tank again (it's been a few years), making sure the standpipe screen and tank interior are clean. Will also try replacing the gas line, making sure there are no high spots that could collect vapor.

It currently has a slight loop up over the harness tube. Not sure it's causing any trouble, but I'll run the new line under the pipe to eliminate that and see what happens. Thinking I tried that before years ago, but with the 10 minute memory I have now, I'm not so sure.

I'll be sure to let all of you know what caused this when we eventually figure it out.

Again, thanks so much for all the help, you guys are amazing!

God bless,

Dave Harnish
New Albany, PA drs@sosbbs.com

John 14:6

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John B.

10-17-2012 06:30:06
38.114.64.214



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
Is your battery secured in place or is it allowed to slip around maybe grounding out the system when leaning left???



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John B.

10-17-2012 06:29:08
38.114.64.214



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
I still lean toward an electrical issue. When running above an idle and if the ignition is shut down manually or by a problem the engine will continue to suck in raw fuel and it'll stay there until it is started back up causing the black smoke. The faster the engine was running when it died the more unburnt fuel you're going to have in there to clean out next time it starts. Do you have an electric/mechanical fuel pump installed on this or is it still gravity feed?

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ericlb

10-17-2012 04:32:45
12.189.32.54



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
the fact that it only happens when the tractor leans left and downhill is almost certainly a fuel issue, the needle and seat or a internal crack ect [ your new carb isnt one of those "black colored ones is it] those arnt worth a hoot new, i have one and it caused a whole new set of problems right out of the box, i pulled it back off after 2 weeks and now run the original one] black colored smoke is unburned fuel, so somehow when the tractor is downhill and leaning, its getting additional fuel, so much that its flooding out

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Stephen Newell

10-17-2012 04:02:16
66.53.83.183



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
It sounds like either it is an electrical short or the float in the carb is out of adjustment. It may be letting too much fuel in the bowl.



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jammison

10-16-2012 20:00:11
72.181.173.171



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Tramway guy, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeIf only! If everything in America that leaned left would shut down!!! OH! What a better place!! :D



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Wascator

10-16-2012 17:39:42
70.195.202.78



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
I ponder out loud here: is there any source of heat around the tank: leakin g exhaust manifold, et al? Perhaps a hot spot on the tank gest dunked with fuel, pressurizing the tank and leading to flooding.
Vapor lock: is the fuel line in the way of heat?
Tractor should run fine on a slope (lean), up to a point, of course. Look at the gas tank, vent, cap, fuel line, all very carefully. Compare your tractor with a known good tractor of the same model and see what is different. You gotta be a detective here, consider everything; forget preconceived ideas, etc. and prove every part good.
Root-cause analysis training: I am giving you the free version...

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John B.

10-16-2012 17:15:58
38.114.64.214



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
Sounds like you have a wire rubbing and shorting out when it leans to the left. That's characteristic of electrical problems. They get worse with time and go long periods of time without giving trouble. Besides if you've taken the carb apart more than 3 times that's not the problem. Just an old rule of thumb mechanics have. More than three times then you're looking in the wrong place.



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glennster

10-16-2012 13:37:43
75.57.134.154



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
dave, im not a ford expert by any means, but, it sounds like the fuel system is building pressure and blowing fuel thru the needle and seat. check your fuel cap and see if the vent hole is plugged. when it starts to sputter, loosen the fuel cap and see if there is any pressure in the tank, and if that helps. my minnie moline when it got hot would do that, took a while to track that down.



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36 coupe

10-16-2012 05:23:52
66.186.169.176



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
Make sure the tank screen has not been replaced with a stand pipe and make sure you are not running on the reserve.



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soundguy

10-15-2012 05:04:07
184.247.75.101



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-14-2012 18:41:37  
i'm not a fan of the copper line.. but that's another issue.

assuming good fuel flow to the carb.. i still think you have a floatt / needle / valve seat issue.



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Dave Harnish

10-15-2012 07:17:15
173.86.53.162



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to soundguy, 10-15-2012 05:04:07  
Thanks! I'm planning on taking the carb apart again to clean it out and replace the needle valve again, bc this has been getting worse the last few months.

BTW, what don't you like about copper fuel line? Too soft? Maybe that's contributing to this somehow, too. My neighbor's 9N line is steel, and he's never had this problem.

He's left his tractor sit outside for months at a time, too, while this one's always been barn-kept.

Thanks again, Dave H.

Acts 4:12

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soundguy

10-15-2012 08:07:42
173.105.162.228



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 Re: My 2N shuts down when leaning left in reply to Dave Harnish, 10-15-2012 07:17:15  
copper can crack and work harden.

I have used copper on diesel lines or in short piece of patch.. but I'd be wary of using it for a full line. gas can explode and burn fast.. diesel is merely flamable.. :)

check the float.. may be hanging up or have apinhole.. or a bit of debris in the seat.. or the seat may be loose..



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