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Discussion Forum

Engine Timing help, Please

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WVKid

08-18-2012 08:59:16
71.178.204.47



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Just found the 31 degrees mark on the flywheel. My Rotor cap is pointing straight ahead toward the front of the tractor and not at the #1 plug as it should.

I'm a little lost at this point because my book tells me to temporarlly install the distributor and rotate the breaker cam in normal direction as far as it will go. i NEVER UN INSTALLED THE DISTRIBUTOR? The book never told me to un install the distributor.
Do I loosen the two set screws to rotate the distributor? Do I pick it up a bit to rotate it or will it rotate when the set screws are loose?

Any help please,

WVKid

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JMOR

08-19-2012 11:04:47
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to glennster, 08-18-2012 08:59:16  
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"...and just really need to know how to rotate the distributor. " NO, you actually DO NOT. Why? Because it most likely last ran just as distributor is now, & if you change it, we will have a harder time trying to help you get it right again! Listen to what John in LA told you to do. People are trying to help you, but you need to follow through on the advice. As it sits with the 31 deg timing mark lined with pointer, I am confident that you do not know whether #1 is at TDC on exhaust stroke OR TDC on compression stroke..........you gotta KNOW. John told you "how" to know.

Next: as for the 31 vs 8: The book says to rotated the rotor as far as possible in the normal direction of rotation while setting distr. Well, this rotation forces the mechanical/centrifugal advance to its most advanced state, thus the 31. Many if not most engines are timed at STATIC, where you do not force the mechanical advance, thus static will be the smaller number. Both are correct, it is just in HOW each setting is performed.

Finally, I will answer the question as to how to be able to rotate the distributor, since you seem damned & determined to screw it up.......HOWEVER, I still scream DO NOT DO IT!!!!!

See the bolt peeking out below distr & between coil & distr? That is one of two, more clearly seen in second picture. (photos courtesy of tractorDon)



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WVKid

08-19-2012 11:42:09
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to JMOR, 08-19-2012 11:04:47  
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Got me scared now, LOL

Not going to mess with distributor, going to check and recheck settings and do as John advised. Just about ready to go back to drinking. lol

Thanks,

Earl



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John in La

08-19-2012 06:51:41
67.35.255.89



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to WVKid, 08-18-2012 08:59:16  
If you have the #1 cylinder up on the compression stroke and the flywheel turned to where 8 deg before tdc lines up; remove the cap and see where the rotor is pointing. rotate the dist to where one of the plug wire holes lines up with the rotor and install the #1 spark plug wire in this hole. Wire the other spark plug wires in the rotor rotation using your firing order.



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WVKid

08-19-2012 10:24:09
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to John in La, 08-19-2012 06:51:41  
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Just wondering where you are getting the info. on the 8 degrees setting from? Been told that before but I thinking this is info. N8 and N9's because the NNA calls for 31 degrees BTDC. I have a side mount distributor and just really need to know how to rotate the distributor.

There are two set screw below the distributor oil port. Think I'll loosen those and try to move it.
My book tells me to rotate the distributor but does not tell me how to make it free to move, hoping it's the two set screws below the oil port.

Is there any way to send you a PDF file from my repair manual?

Thanks,

WVKid

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John in La

08-19-2012 11:59:17
67.35.255.89



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to WVKid, 08-19-2012 10:24:09  

The picture will show what bolts need to be loosened to move the dist. That bottom picture that JMOR posted shows both bolts well.
If you want to get right down to it 8 deg btdc is wrong. It is really suppose to be 4 deg btdc at 450 rpm. The advance system in the dist will bring it up to 25 or 30 deg btdc when you get the engine running over 2000 rpm.
I tell people 8 deg to get it started because some of these old tractors will not run well at 4 deg. Once you get it running we can see if you can get the rpm low enough and set it at 4 to see how it runs.

Now I have to agree with JMOR. I am going on the assumption that you have #1 at tdc on the compression stroke. If you do not; or you are not 100% sure if you do; we need to stop right here and make sure. You can make things a lot harder on us by moving the dist when it is correct now.

Take the spark plug out of #1 cylinder. This is the one by the radiator. Stick your finger in the hole and bump the motor over till you feel/hear a puff of air. We are now comming up on compression. Now move the flywheel with a screw driver till you get the timing marks between TDC and 8 deg BTDC. When you get to this point your rotor should be pointing to the hole in the dist cap that you have the #1 wire installed in. If not rather than removing and turning the dist just move the plug wires around. If it is between two wires loosen the two bolts and turn the dist a little to where it points at the a wire hole.

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WVKid

08-19-2012 13:51:08
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to John in La, 08-19-2012 11:59:17  
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Many thanks guys,
I've printed this out and taping it on the side of the Tractor so I can follow the instructions.

Be a few days before I get back with you, heading to God's Country for a couple days, miss them thar Hills of WV. :) There's a Hatfield down theer I need to shoot also,,,,,,, just in the foot though. lol

Thanks for all the help,

WVKid aka Duke of Earl

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JMOR

08-18-2012 20:49:39
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to Rich in Connecticut, 08-18-2012 08:59:16  
As much stuff as you replaced, my guess is that you didn't get the spark plug wires back in the cap, relative to which cylinder they go to just exactly the same as you removed them. Stamped/printed numbers & a picture book of where #1 was when it left the factory does not mean beans , now. Leave the distributor alone.



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JMOR

08-18-2012 12:23:19
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to g6ypk, 08-18-2012 08:59:16  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see 2:1 One revolution of flywheel will move the distributor one-half revolution.



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WVKid

08-18-2012 12:38:27
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to JMOR, 08-18-2012 12:23:19  
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Sooo,, My Rotor is now past the #1 Plug, (pointing straight forward to the front of the tractor) does this mean many turns of the flywheel until I see the rotor pointing at the #1 plug? That's how I get it back into correct timing?

Thanks,

WVKid



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welding man

08-18-2012 12:59:23
76.9.225.76



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to WVKid, 08-18-2012 12:38:27  
A NAA times at 8 deg BTDC. Forget about the 31 Deg for now. Take # 1 spark plug out. Hold your finger over the hole and bump the starter over until it blows out the hole. Check to see where the timing marks are and turn the flywheel until you get it at 8 deg BTDC. Now check to see where the rotor is and post back. DO NOT Pull the dist out yet !!!



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WVKid

08-18-2012 13:46:20
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to welding man, 08-18-2012 12:59:23  
I pulled the #1 plug, got nice compression and turned the flywheel to 8 degrees, the rotor is now pointing between the #3 and #4 plugs.

What does the "B' stand for in BTDC, top dead center? Hate to show how much I don't know. lol



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welding man

08-18-2012 15:22:23
76.9.225.76



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to WVKid, 08-18-2012 13:46:20  
B stands for Before.How long has it been since the tractor has run and what makes you think it is out of time? There is lot of other things that could keep it from running besides being out of time.



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WVKid

08-18-2012 15:43:05
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to welding man, 08-18-2012 15:22:23  
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It's been two years under my garage without running.

90% sure it's the timing. Replaced all the wiring, rebuilt the Carb, the Starter, Generator and lots of other stuff. When I change to heavy cable for the starter and battery the cranking RPM's doubled.
Was cranking the engine for about 2 minutes with no sign of starting when the carbuertor back fired. No smoke or fire just a loud noise. Someone told me that I might have damaged the floats in the carbuertor, checked it out and all is fine, put floats in a pan of water and they do float.

You name it and it's been replaced including radiator, ignition switch, gas tank, fuel bowl and fuel line.
Waiting on new gaskets for the carbuertor and if I can get the timing back I think she will be ok. When I pulled the #1 plug and did that compression test with my finger on the plug hole, it blew my finger away with good compression.

That about covers it to date.......Can I send you a picture, she looks good.

Thanks,

WVKid

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Welding man

08-18-2012 18:16:53
76.9.225.76



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to WVKid, 08-18-2012 15:43:05  
If it back fird, timing may not be off very much, loosen the distributor and turn it in both directions while cranking and see if it will start. Where are you located in WV. I also live in WV.my E-mail is open.



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WVKid

08-18-2012 20:09:25
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to Welding man, 08-18-2012 18:16:53  
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Not sure how to loosen the distributor, there are two set screws below the oil port of the distributor, if I back them out will that let me turn the distributor?

I'm in Stafford VA now, born and raised in the southwest part of WV, (Hatfield/McCoy area) all my people were coal miners. Went to Welch high school, just old and ugly now. lol

Thanks

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JMOR

08-18-2012 11:22:00
72.181.173.171



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to DScott, 08-18-2012 08:59:16  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to seeRotate your flywheel one full revolution and then your rotor will be pointing to happiness for you. :wink:



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WVKid

08-18-2012 11:51:47
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to JMOR, 08-18-2012 11:22:00  
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If I rotate the flywheel, the rotor will be right back where it is now, (in the wrong position) they both move together, right!

Seems like I need to remove the distributor shaft and make the adjustment to have the rotor pointing to the #1 plug while the flywheel remains at TDC 31 degrees. Not sure and not sure how to remove the distributor shaft if that's what needs to be done.

Thanks,

WVKid

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welding man

08-18-2012 09:35:04
76.9.225.76



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to WVKid, 08-18-2012 08:59:16  
If we knew what you were working on would be a big help. I know of no gasoline engine that times on 31 degrees static timing,that may be the fully advanced timing. Are you on #1 cyl coming up to TDC or are you 180 deg out. I think you need to read your book a little closer and start over.Then post some more info and maybe someone can help.



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WVKid

08-18-2012 09:42:26
71.178.204.47



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 Re: Engine Timing help, Please in reply to welding man, 08-18-2012 09:35:04  
Oops!! Sorry,
I'm working on my NNA Jubilee Tractor using a I&T shop manual under "Electrical and Igniton System"

Think I had a senior moment when asking for help. lol



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