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Restoration & Repair Tips Board

IH utility 300 motor stuck??

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Stevewatr

03-22-2012 20:10:01
72.72.120.155



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Bought a IH utility 300 on the cheap, Owner parked it after the power steering failed a second time. He said it was running last spring. Left outside all winter, but we had a very mild, almost snow free winter, the engine was covered with a tarp, no vertical exhaust for water to get into, but when I tried to crank the starter, it appears locked up tight, fan blade barely wigggles about 1/8". Pulled all spark plugs, only one had signs of slight rust. Squirted Marvel mystery oil in all cylinders, let sit, tried again over couple days, no luck. Put a large pipe wrench on a shaft that comes out the front to drive the loaders remote hydraulic pump, put a cheater pipe on that, applied lots of force, still locked. Filled up all cylinders with clean diesel fuel, tried starter every day over the next week, no luck. Noticed diesel fuel now dripping from under rear area where engine bolts up to clutch area. Yesterday manually raise the loaded, aired up the tires, and tried towing it. I moves okay in neutral, also moves okay in gear with clutch depressed, so we tried rolling it, then popping clutch.....no luck. I was going to pull the head, but wanted to run this by more experienced people first. It just seems strange to me that sitting for one year would have seized things up this bad. Can anybody think of somthing else that might lock it up?? Rolls with clutch in, so I assume that rules out tranny. I do not think it has a TA, because there is no vertical lever to engage it. It does have a linkage that appears to be disconnected, or missing parts located just rear of where the clutch pedal linkage attaches. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

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linemechanic1

04-01-2012 17:14:41
69.86.135.178



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? Try starter bar. in reply to Stevewatr, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
Recently had a very, very similar problem with my 350U. The saga is somewhere in these forums. We're talking two months of pouring various mixtures into the spark plug holes.Mostly TRIZOL mixed with ATF. Decided to pull pan to take a look and found same problem with clearance but I blamed it on the frame for the loader/backhoe contraption. What I DID find was that if I raised the front of the thing with a 12 ton jack under the front cross member, the one just under the hyd pump, the wishbone cleared so that I could pull the pan. The front cyl wall was dry and other 3 were wet from all the juice. Of the many helpful ideas that I got on these forums the 'starter bar' was the savior here. Used a 6 inch long 5/8" bolt, filed down the end to the diameter of the bushing in the from of an unused bull nose from same model starter. Opened up 5/8" hole in old starter backing plate and slid some collars on the bolt for alignment. Then slid on an old bendix with starter gear(Minus springs) and welded gear and collars together in the forward (engaged position). Did NOT weld it to bolt. Drilled through collars and made indentations in 5/8"bolt for set screws. Installed 5/8" bolt through backing plate, then the now-one-piece collar/bendix thing. Then set screws. Then the whole thing into the bullnose (front of old starter. I bolted it up the same way I had the starter several thousand times and used a 15/16" socket on a 3/4" drive ratchet and began rocking it gently. After 5 minutes it was spinning freely with the ratchet. Reinstalled the 6 V starter and with a 12 V battery it spins the engine like a top spewing penetrating stuff out the spark plug holes all over the woods. Can't wait to put it back together but it's a hundred miles from where I work here in NY so it's a weekend project.
IN SHORT: Everything you need to know resides on these blogs from people who have thousands of hours (years?) of experience. Hats off to all-Jim

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Stevewatr

04-01-2012 17:53:06
72.72.120.133



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? Try starter bar. in reply to linemechanic1, 04-01-2012 17:14:41  
Thanks for the ideas, but I'm way past the stuck engine now. My problem was less with the cylinders, and more to do with the exhaust valves being stuck. After pulling the head, it spins fine. Latest bad news, pulled one rod cap today only to see the journal on the crank is scored, as is the rod bearing.



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Stevewatr

03-31-2012 15:43:12
68.239.8.49



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
Well the head is off at the machine shop, awaiting it's turn in the jet cleaner, and bake oven. I oredered new intake valves, all new springs, and new guides. Decided to pull the pistons to better inspect them, and ran into a few snags.

First, I have been assuming thus tractor is a 300 utility, and thought it had a C169 motor. turns out it is a C175 motor. It is stamped right onto the block. So then I questioned if it might not be a 350 utility, then I found info that suggests they may have used C175 in the 300 near the end of the run. I had already ordered the valves, guides, and springs before realixing my error. :oops:Was mad at first, but then found the C169 and 175 share the same head:D

Problem now is to figure out exactly what piston/cylinder this motor uses. I found on the IH site they list only one number for the C175, but when crossing to a Clevite/Mahle number, they list 2 differant ones based on serial #.

The tops of the pistons I have are the "firecrater" style, but I think the differance might be in the wrist pin diameter.

Went to pull the oil pan, and get this, it won't clear the large support arm that comes from the front axle towards the rear.:censored:

Do I actually have to remove the front axle assembly to get the oil pan off:confused:

Here is another weird thing. What I can see for serial numbers does not coincide with what the online parts manual says I should be seeing.

The manual states all 300u engine serial numbers start with 9501 with a c169 prefix, and 350u engine numbers start with a 501, and a c175 prefix. My engine serial number appears to be 3615?2, the ? looks like either a 5 or a 6. This number is stamped into the block in a flat area just above where it is embossed C-175. Also below where the firing order is embossed, there are numbers seperated by little screw heads *3*17*0*.

The tractor serial # on a tag on the clutch housing is also not making much sense to me.
The parts manual says the chassis serial numbers for both the 300 and 350 should start with 501, but mine appears to be 18267, then a long space followed by a letter R. The suffix codes in the manual say the R would designate a tractor with Torque amplifier attachment, and if mine has a TA, great, but why is it missing the lever?

I'll post part 5 of the video soon.

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El Toro

04-01-2012 08:30:13
108.3.225.57



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-31-2012 15:43:12  
You should pull the engine and have the crankshaft measured for wear. Would be a good time have new cam bearings installed. They won't grind the crankshaft undersize unless it needs it. If it's worn slightly and needs .002" undersize bearings they will just polish the shaft. Buy your new bearings from them. Hal



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Stevewatr

04-01-2012 18:06:56
72.72.120.133



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to El Toro, 04-01-2012 08:30:13  
Well Hal, pulled the pan today, removed the rod cap for cylinder #2, and the journal is scored! So now I am looking at pullling the crank, meaning pulling the block, so I'm on my way to a full rebuild of this motor, on a tractor that I know has a steering gear issue, and I've never seen run..........I think I need my head examined!



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El Toro

04-02-2012 12:29:56
108.3.225.57



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 04-01-2012 18:06:56  
Sometimes it's better to let them go for scrap.
When you need tires and a complete engine rebuild
I would think twice before buying one stuck. I did alright in 1975 when I bought a Farmall A that was stuck. I gave $100.00 for the tractor and moldboard plow. It needed tires, rims, steering wheel, seat, wiring and a complete engine rebuild. Hal



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Stevewatr

04-02-2012 12:48:05
68.239.18.47



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to El Toro, 04-02-2012 12:29:56  
You may be right about that, but I own it now, and am finding some very reasonable prices on the engine parts (so far). I already have new valve guides, and intake valves ordered, and I? can get a set of 4 sleeve assemblies with new pistons/rings and not get beaten up too bad. I gave $400 for the tractor, with a loader, a drawbar to fit the fast hitch, 2 arms that slide in the fast hitch to convert to arms like on a 3 point. Also came with a pretty new looking top link, and extra loader valve, and an unidentified box scraper. The upper arms on the box are bent, but I might be able to straighten them in my shop press.

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J.Wondergem

03-24-2012 06:03:34
166.249.98.169



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Dean Brazo, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

This is why you shouldn't pull them. Might want to check the push rods, and make sure they're not bent. Also check the valve stems and rocker arms.



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Stevewatr

03-25-2012 12:13:30
68.239.23.96



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to J.Wondergem, 03-24-2012 06:03:34  
Push rods look okay, same as rocker arms. I think I dodged a bullet. Lesson learned! Thanks.



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Stevewatr

03-25-2012 07:21:19
72.72.125.181



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
I have started uploading videos of my work on the IH 300. Here is a link, you'll have to cut paste it. Once there, you can subscribe, and be notified as I post more:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-t8UgRqvXc



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El Toro

03-26-2012 04:14:37
108.3.225.57



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-25-2012 07:21:19  
Here's the link you posted. Hal



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Stevewatr

03-27-2012 12:06:38
68.239.24.139



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to El Toro, 03-26-2012 04:14:37  
Thanks, I could not figure out what I was doing wrong.



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AARON ANDERSEN

03-24-2012 21:09:43
69.4.123.195



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
try some brake fluid and pb blaster and some tranny fluid,i put that stuff in a snowmobile that was froze up and under water for 3 days,and i broke loose after a few days.good luck.aaron



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Stevewatr

03-25-2012 12:15:21
68.239.23.96



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to AARON ANDERSEN, 03-24-2012 21:09:43  
Thanks for the reply. I had three stuck exhaust valves that were a big part of the issue. A pry bar on the teeth of the ring gear broke it free initialy.



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charlie M

03-23-2012 18:47:04
74.34.216.81



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
Could be locked against the starter. Pull it out and see if the motor turns over. Mine does that a couple of times per year. Hitting a bad spot on the ring gear at the right time will cause it.



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El Toro

03-23-2012 04:14:53
108.3.225.57



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-22-2012 20:10:01  
Use ATF in the cylinders and let it soak. Don't pull the tractor as you can damage the drive train. Hal



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Stevewatr

03-23-2012 04:45:31
72.72.126.240



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to El Toro, 03-23-2012 04:14:53  
Thanks Hal, Lots of people telling me not to pull it, so I hope i did not bend anything. I'm through soaking untill I get the head off. The diesel fuel sitting in the cylinders for a week, along with the Marvel;s mystery oil should have done somthing if it were going to work. I think with the head off I could use a wood block to bang on the crowns of the pistons. I'll keep the thread updated, and add a link to video I'll be uploading.

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old

03-23-2012 12:50:10
209.86.226.18



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-23-2012 04:45:31  
Diesel fuel and MMO do not work well for unlocking and engine. Was the exhaust ever uncapped so rain water could get into the engine?? If it was you might as well open it up because all the oil etc you can pour in will be a waste of time. Oil floats on water so as I said a waste of time since the oil will never get where it needs to be. If the cylinders where dry wick the stuff you have in out then fill with ATF and let sit a week or 2. Then set a good 12 volt battery in and use short fast taps of the starter to pop it free. BTDT more then 25 times now and 99% of them freed up for me

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d beatty

03-23-2012 05:54:21
24.12.128.253



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to Stevewatr, 03-23-2012 04:45:31  
Steve give the oil time to work. I have had engines set for a month before they started to move and then move it a little each day till free. Don't pull it you could end up doing more than just the engine.



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Stevewatr

03-23-2012 19:38:54
70.22.207.5



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 Re: IH utility 300 motor stuck?? in reply to d beatty, 03-23-2012 05:54:21  
I tried a trick suggested by another person. I removed the starter, and used a pry bar on the ring gear. With a little force, i was able to start it turning, then it got easier. Rotated a quarter turn that way! Got excited and remounted the starter, but it only spun slightly,maybe 15 degrees, then seemed stuck again. Pulled the starter again, and found i could not budge it any further. Pulled the valve cover and found 3 exhaust valves stuck open. Squirted some MMO on them, and gave them a few taps. One popped free, but the other two are stuck good, I can tap them down further, but they just stay that way, so I started pulling the head. Should have it off by tommorow afternoon.

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