Anyone Running E-85 In Their Puller?

1206SWMO

Well-known Member
I just bought a U MM puller that runs on 110-112 octane racing fuel thats pretty expensive...Is anyone running E-85 in their puller?? Its only $1.40 per gallon...

The first picture is the former owner pulling in central Oklahoma..The second picture is it sitting in my yard the day that it was delivered.....
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Might try avgas if you ar near a small airport. I can't tell any difference between it and the $10 per gallon stuff. Last I bought was about 4.50. Is 100 octane lean :115 rich
 
I mix 112 race gas with regular gas that works good in a engine that's not super high compression. A 50/50 mix does ok.
 
There are a number of guys running E-85 northwest of Minneapolis Mn. Takes around 1/3 to 1/2 more fuel but have been getting close to same HP. I can hook you up with one of them if you want to chat.
 

At a price of $1.49 per gallon you would be talking about E85 as purchased at the local gas station. The pump is typically labeled as 100 octane (?). Ethanol requires rejetting since more fuel is used for a given amount of air as compared to gasoline.

Assuming your carburetor can be jetted to meter E85 - you cannot know what you are getting from the local pump. E85 is up to 85% ethanol but can be closer to 55% ethanol. You would need to check the specfic gravity and then jet to that. Even so at 55% ethanol the octane could be lacking.

There is E85 available from race fuel suppliers which is blended to a tight specification....maybe 105 + octane. That would be a better choice IMO, if one were to use E85.
 
It takes about 40% more fuel,depending on mix and quality,gas carb will not work unless idle circuit is drilled,massaged and opened,high idle jet is usually no problem.Makes a little more torque.Playing with fire,no pun intended,when going cheap on a puller fuel,under full load pulled down those pistons will not be Happy.
 
What is the compression ratio? You may not need that much octane. If the compression is reasonable, the high octane fuel will make less power than pump gas.
 
Summer fuel will be close to 85%, winter closer to e-70, my allis has over 250 cranking comp, runs o-k on winter or summer blend,I like MSD or like ign. sys, maybe a little less timing, you need to do some serious carb work.
 

Yes, this is exactly right. There is less energy-per-gallon with E85 than with 93 octane. However, there is also less energy-per-gallon with 93 than with non-ethanol 87 octane. You can verify this here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gasoline_gallon_equivalent
Also really good information here (if you keep in mind it's written for high compression, high RPM, high performance race engines)
http://www.racegas.com/article/10


You really want to run the lowest octane you can without detonation. Anything higher is going to be less energy.
 

Ray Castner (JDBPuller AKA Extreme) was using E-85 10 years ago and his JD "B" Pullers are Killers...But, you might want to check with him about how long to leave it IN the tank..!!

His "Carb-O-Matic" was a real break-through, for tuning while Pulling too...

Ron.
 
Yes, I have. It will not last long once it is pumped from a sealed container, so you can't leave it in your tank from week to week. "Pump" E85 varies widely in quality and I would only recommend using product from a race fuel manufacturer for consistency. You will most likely have to enlarge idle and main circuit jets to flow enough E85 to run properly (It took me an afternoon of trial and error to get it right). It does not like cold temperatures, I had issues below 45 degrees. I would highly recommend a high energy ignition system for best performance. That said, it builds a lot of torque. Keep in mind that ethanol is 35% oxygen by weight. An engine is an air pump, the only part of air that burns is oxygen. The more oxygen you can get into a cylinder (and ignite), the more power you will make. I do not know what the upper compression limit is for E85 but it works fine even in low compression engines. Good luck!
 
Thanks for all the replies....With 4230 heads the compression ratio might be 9 or 10 to 1 at the most..Running E-85 might be something that I look in to in the future since my renters raise corn on my farm..I know that some of the drag racers and stock car racers are running E-85 with good results...

I realize that the octane level can vary widely on E-85...I've seen figures that it averages from 95 to 105 with a high of 110 and a low of 70..Theres not much consistency...
 
ron, just how many killer "B"s are there? Never seen one @ Tunica, nor anywhere in Ga, SC, or Ray's home state of NC. Have seen some of his unimpressive "A"s tho.
 
Hi!! I do not know what bore and stroke you are running under those 4230 heads; but; here is something to think about. According to the MM head chart; running the 336 (4 5/8x5) or 403 (4 5/8x6); the compression is from 6.8 to 8.2 : 1 with compression pressures of 135-190#. Of course if you are running a large c.i. engine ; this point is mute. If this is near your engine size; using the high octane fuel is only wasting money. I would try running 93 octane with a little booster and see how it runs. I have run MM engines with compression in the low 200 range on this with good results. Easier to find, and do not have to drill out carb jets and start experimenting. Octane will NOT create horsepower. Octane will prevent pre-detonation, valve rattle or detonation knock that allows timing to be set where the engine runs at peak. If an engine produces X hp on 87 octsne; and does not rattle; It will still only produce X hp on high octsne fuel. If you have access to a dyno; that is the best way to check them out. Just hate to see someone spending a pile of money on fuel if not needed.
 
I get a kick out of all you guys saying that someone should cheat themselves with a little less octane cause it doesn't make sense to spend extra cents. LOL WTF.Rattle happens when you pull down at the end of a pull,kill or build excessive heat,many times that rattle is not audible..Do not error on the less side - error on the safe side,we pay thousands for a big engine,thousands for a hauler,hundreds to get there and to pull,go ahead and play with less and see how much that costs by being cheap on fuel,love you smart guys. A little extra octane is a safety measure for that hard pulling track to win on that we did not realize had such great traction.Each to his own,most do not pull enough to make over a few dollars difference on pulling fuel cost,what do you buy a yr. ??????? ten gallons !!!! Rooms,driving and doing to Tunica costs well over a thousand bucks,I think 20 extra bucks for good fuel is ok !!!!!!!!
 
Sorry: I took this question as how to reduce fuel expenses without compromising performance. I know what has worked for me and have done the dyno runout. I still see no reason to spend $10 a gallon for fuel if there is no benefit. Just throwing out another option for him to consider. It is ultimately the owners decision.
 
ive ran 50/50 of e85 and 93 octane pump gas on engines ranging from 200-275psi of compression with no issues. ive noted cooler engine temps, easy starting, but you will have to play with the timing and carb jetting. good luck.
 
Its 4.75 by 6.....With 4230 heads it might only be 8-9 to 1 compression depending on how much was taken off the heads...I need to run a compression check on it..
 
I'm not going to Tunica and will seldom be over 100 miles from home....Hooking 3 classes at each pull I'll burn over 10 gallons a year....I dont have easy access to racing fuel....I don't want to fudge but I'm looking at different options....I could be wrong but I don't see this tractor ever powering out in the 5500-6500 classes at 3.5 mph on the sled that I'll be pulling..
 
I guess some of us are just a little more passionate about pulling.some are asking tech questions that need factual replies,not personal choices that may or may not suit the situation at hand.So big spender you will burn,--what ten point two gallons,get a life,20 bucks one way or another is not worth a risk that can be eliminated.why use a fuel that varies so much you never know what the heck you have,it is very hard to even find quality high priced race fuel.frugal people are cool,but the new guy might want to spend his money on good gas,good whiskey and fun,not scored cylinders and ruined pistons that were good yesterday.If you can afford to have a puller,a hauler and entry fees,food,drink and time,--YOU CAN AFFORD THE RIGHT FUEL - END OF DISCUSSION !!!!!!
 
Nice looking Moline. We have nobody running E-85 in this area. Most modified antique puller are using racing fuel or aviation fuel. The farm stock using mostly 93 octane with additives.
 
One of mine is 4.75 x 6 with 4231 heads. Shows 100 plus hp on dyno running 100LL avgas. No problem. ( it is a bit over 100; not just 2 or 3)
 
been running it in my allis wc for 10 years or so need to drill out main jet is all i did ,runs pretty good for a little 226 ,need to set timing also for what ever fuel you will be running never had any water problems just hard to start in winter, cant believe all the people who bash it seems to work for me
 
Right: that setup should never fade in those weight classes in low gear. I have run 354 engines in 7500# with no problems. Hope you find a mixture that works for you. I figure being "frugal " as someone called it , is my view of not wasting money. I have been pulling 30 plus years and can be competitive without seeing how much money I can spend. If I had to spend the "big bucks " to play: I would have to quit. A $15 trophy don't excite me that much.
 
All your answers have been good. But! It is going to be up to what your engine needs. If the last owner was running 110 after testing different mixtures then thats what it is going to take. Compression ratio is what will determine that. My engine ran 87 octane at 7.5 to 1. I bumped it up to 10.6 to 1 and had to go up to 102 octane. I tested this engine on mixes from 93 to 110 octane to find my peak performance. Anything over 102 I started losing hp and on 110 I lost 4 hp. So people that run 110 thinking more is better are shooting themselves in the foot. Now running E85 is a great idea if your engine likes it on the DYNO. This is how it worked for me, your resorts may very.(lol)
 
I've pulled off and on since 1967...If you have 4231 heads you are running more compression than me.....I'll check our small local airport to see if they will sell me avgas thats 100 octane....The U that I bought has pulled a 8500 class but 6500 or 7000 is the biggest they run around here..
 
Lee460,no one can measure four hp at a track on any given day with different air,humidity,temp,pressure,and a little extra octane is insurance,-- insurance,you all don't read a reply or understand it's contents completely.Good Day,--
 
535353m. Don't misunderstand me I agree with you 100%. I just thought he needs to know for sure what he has & what it needs before he thinks about cutting it back. I know I was afraid I was going to fry a piston before I got my engine dialed in. Sorry Lee
 
Well we all make choices and that is why we pull,fun,no pure set science of how to do it with success.However with more octane,more timing usually makes more power,torque not peak hp is what does the work.When I hook,I plan on pulling a long ways,winning or doing darn good,in order to do that I plan for a hard pull,using all the ingredients of the total recipe,traction,right weight location,driving as well as I can,having the hitch work well,tires biting as well as they can,most of the time my engine works very hard to accomplish that,not running at high idle but pulled down to or below peak torque,on a HARD pull is when you NEED the extra safety of sufficient octane.As some on here stated,they don't figure on pulling the engine down,well that is not in my thought process,cuz in order to win,I plan on HOOKING HARD EVERY TIME. YA ALL HAVE A SAFE AND BLESSED HOLIDAY. I have pulled in over a dozen states,and not all places have hard biting "POWER" tracks,makes for interesting bar stories.PS.I don't drink!!!!! Much.
 
535353m Again I agree with everything you said. Very well written. PS I don't drink anymore or less. Happy Holidays. Lee
 

I would not know and maybe you should ask him...

I CAN vouch for one of his US"B" JD from London Ohio that pulls at Plain City during the "Steam Show" and it has WON 3 years in a row, against IH "M" and "H" tractors and they go home shaking their Heads..
That is in the 3,250# range..(Approx)..

No idea why they have not been there...

Ron..
 
20mule team,driver is way too physically small to control a tractor bucking and lurching.Experience makes no difference when a drama filled incident happens in a millisecond,old isn't the factor either,but size,strength and being wise,able and ready for disaster.Grandpa or Granddad won't be so proud standing at an open grave.My personal opinion,but am sure many will agree,insurance is hard and expensive enough with out an an unnecessary incident.
 
I ran E85 for several years and had problems with consistency. The winter verses summer blend had different levels of ethanol which made tuning difficult. If you mix your own e85, then you can make it consistently. I was only using 10 gallons a year so it wasn't worth the hassle. Also, you MUST drain the fuel out of it. I ate up a carb because i did not drain it out completely. There are enough variables in pulling, just run turbo-blue.
 
Around me, I don't know anyone that uses E-85. When deciding on the octane level, I usually determine that by the compression ratio. For instance, one pulling tractor I have has to run 105-octane or higher (jet fuel) in it or it won't run and perform perfect motor wise. If compression level is too low, as the older pullers use to tell me, "Your just blowing it out of your exhaust and keeping the mosquitoes away from the spectators".
 

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