Red diamond

Jddude

New User
Does anyone know for sure if they ever put a red diamond in a tractor... If so is there any documentation of this being done
 
The RD engine like the 450 and 501 were NEVER used in an ag tractor. It was a truck engine and as an industrial engine used for irrigation pumps. 2 clubs I pull with do not allow the RD engine in Div 2. The one allows them in a 6 mph full cut tire class.
 
They are the right engine for a w40. The 450 was used a lot in them. I don't know if there was a serial number break when they started putting them in or not.
 
lot's of opinions,not so much in facts.people put them in w-40s,does it make it like WD 40 ?????????? good for many things.it is an outlaw engine !!!!!
 
Red Diamond engines were never used in a tractor. The WK40 W40 tractors never came with a RD engine! The 501 is a taller deck engine than what came in the W40. They will bolt in though. I hope this helps
 
The W40/WA40/WK40 tractors were built between 1935-1940. Six prototypes were built in 1934.
These tractors used the FBB six cylinder(279/298 ci) engine
found in IH trucks from 1933 on. Red Diamond
engines started production in 1940 with 361,401
and 450 cubic inch versions. These RD's are the
replacement engine for the earlier six cylinder
engines. Similar to M/SuperM, 400 and 450 engines
succession. The later RD's are the 406/450 and 501
engines.
WD40's are powered by a four cylinder 462 cubic inch diesel engine. PA40 and PA50 stationary power plants use the same engines as W40 series tractors.
 
The 450 is a shorter engine. Get your spec books out and check. Either way there to many 501 running in southern Il Ky IN And Oh to stop them now. NATPA is only hurting them selves by not letting them run. No I don't have one but whish I did. Leroy Brave so I am not hiding my name.
 
It's my understanding that there are also a lot of 460 & 560 models running 414, 436, 466 diesels in the area described. Does that mean they should be able to run NATPA as well? What about the turbo versions? Once the dust starts flying where do you stop it? How far is too far? Just some food for thought.
 
Yes there are some 466 in 560 but as of for now where I go they only let them pull open no turbo. I understand that Ky is coming out with 6000 turbo class but don't for sure but hope to find out the 28th.
 
My name is Allen Pruehs in SE Michigan. I've been pulling on and off for more years than I want to admit to and I've seen good & bad classes, organizations and rule sets come and go.
 
Leroy Brave get your specs straight! The deck height is the ONLY difference between a 450-501. 501 has more stroke than a 450. These engines were used in IH trucks. Why not put a big block 454, 460, 440? Same thing to me. Gary
 
they never put 730 or 830 5 main blocks in a 400 and they definitely didn't use a diesel manifold on a gas tractor
 
Leroy the Light Hot Farm (6000 Diesel Turbo) class will be at Russellville, but that class should be held out of the conversation as an antique class though it will be in competition at Scottsville Ky and Temple Hill, Ky some this year.

Its a pre-1980 class designed to bridge the gap between the Open Antiques and the traditional "hot" classes.
 
310 block is a taller deck height than an 88 so by that logic the 501 should be ok in the wk 40 now.
 
That is what I said. But you can put the 501 crank in a 450. Gary I know you are a NATPA man and you have your rules and have been slowly changing to get more pullers which I think is good. You have to go with the times are die but you need to make more changes for my tractors to pull in which is OK. If you don't like the rules don't go so for the time being this is what I am doing.
 
a.p. thanks for being a man and putting your name on here. I like you stated pulling in the plow pull days when stock meant stock so have been at it for quite some time and enjoyed every minute of it. I thought we might cross paths some day but proably not we are to far apart. Also who ever mention the 466 with out blower will not keep up with the gas 501.
 
By any logic, a Super 99 head which bolts directly to the 88 block without modification should also be legal, but it isn't (apparently). I guess we both need to get used to the disappointment or build something legal.

BTW - Jody Barber has a 560 that wins in division 5 without using a RD engine. It may take bit of work to get there, but it can be done.

If it's how to get there the cheapest, I've seen a couple of nice running 88's equipped with 3208 Cat's that I would like to try against the RD501's.
 
Just my two cents worth. I feel if its the same number of cylinders in the same configuration and mounts in the stock frame rails without altering the wheel base it should be good to go. I think VicS put it the best at one time he said he would pull against 5 KB hemi's if they held the 5mph pace!! They would be limited to an open type class though.
 
The 310 block is taller than an 88 I have built both. The bearing book I have is a clevite and they list all sizes and how many brgs an engine has. If the rd is the same # of cyl same length and same deck height it should be considerd an acceptable replacement block and natpa does. I have no Idea how that could be considerd the same as putting in a big block chevy or dodge by anyone.
 
Very true...The 40's only came from the factory with the 298 which wasnt a real good engine....Out in Kansas I see lots of 40 series IH's with RD 450's in them..They were put in by farmers many years ago and used in the field...Keeping the gas tank filled would have kept a guy busy....One friend in Kansas has 3 WK-40's with RD450's.

A few years ago I bought a WK-40 with the original 298 but with it I got a RD372..
 
it's not really the same at all. The 310 is a seven main bearing block using a twelve port head. The 88 engine (and Super 99 gas engine for that matter) is a four main bearing engine using a nine port (three intake, six exhaust) head.

Since the Case engine doesn't change the number of main bearings(five) in the block or the number of ports in the head its more like swapping parts between 88,880, 1600 & 1650 gas engines.
 
What does using a diesel manifold have to do with using a block with more deck hieght than the stock block had. an rd motor in a w 40 or 560 doesn't even compare to using a 730/830 block in a 400.
 
I haven't been to a NATPA pull in years, but the results page at www.natpa.com shows a w-40 pulling in Div. 4. I'm pretty sure it has a rd engine in it. So I'd say they are ok. They shouldn't be, but it looks like they are
 
(quoted from post at 05:47:54 03/16/15) Does anyone know for sure if they ever put a red diamond in a tractor... If so is there any documentation of this being done
it never happened, the wk40's had the model FBB 298 cid truck engine installed in these tractors. the red diamond was never used and is a much better newer engine, red diamond was not even out when these tractors where biult. also the red diamond does not bolt right in with out fabrication.
 
If they pull division 4 or 5 why not let them use the RD motors? It's no secret that the one with the most money invested should have the best power but you still have to put it on the ground.
 
How about we not worry so much about what the other guy has under the hood of his tractor. I have seen plenty of tractors win with half the horsepower of their best competitor. How many of you know one person who has bought or built the best of the best and wins every time they hook the chain. Sounds to me like that's what the big motor haters are afraid of and that ain't gonna happen.
 
you people post on here, so you must have a computer. You need to learn how to look information up!!! There were NEVER any RD motors put in tractors at the factory!!
 
(quoted from post at 16:58:19 03/18/15) my brg book list a 400 as three mains

There are two different CASE 400 tractors. One is the Big 400 with a 251 C.I. block and five mains. The other is a 400b 3 main block. it is a smaller tractor. The big 400 went on to become the 700 / 800, which went on to become the 730 / 830.

The blocks between the big 400 and the 830 are identical in deck height and the stroke is the same all the way to the 770 / 870 engines. Only the bore size changed.
 

We sell tractor parts! We have the parts you need to repair your tractor - the right parts. Our low prices and years of research make us your best choice when you need parts. Shop Online Today.

Back
Top