Farmall M vs 560 ?

I have recently posted some IH questions here on this site, and have been very fortunate to receive some very good information about the topics.

With that said my next question would be, What are the major differences between the Farmall M and a 560 in the transmission and rear end.

Strengths, weaknesses, ratios and any other points of interest would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.
 
the longer tractor wins in the heavier classes , given equal power and set up men . just my .02
 
The fast classes will soon be a all 460-560 show. They have just started to develop the RD engine, combined with the torque-amphlifier, no contest.
 
so all of your clubs run stock engines? why the constant bashing of rd engines? why the constant whinning? im always hearing this argument n get sick of it, where were u when wackashaws entered,or dt466, or combine motors or so on and so on. all clubs offer stock pulling, all clubs have rules n if ,like u say they make a class for the non ag engines then fine itl be their rule, but id say all ag classes alta run stock weight
 
a stronge m will run with a rd at lower spd limits, ive seen it all summer, same for a olli ,but a wackashaw is same problem as a rd, not really a antique engine, if everyone bashing a rd would say only able to run a engine pre 1959 it be same as 20 yrs ago ,oh but then ud be sayn it aint fair a guy can build a 30k plus m engine so a rd with big cubes n a lower spd class all light is behind the eight ball but yea a real beaste in fast or open. jm2cnts
 
The RD engines, except for the 501, date back to at least 1950...for those who say it's "modern." IH stayed with it a long time, but its origin is fairly ancient.
 
Oh my. Let me try to straighten things out a bit. I'm try to find out about transmission and mostly rear end issues.

Just to clear up things also, this tractor will be an antique V-8. I will be doing a lot of what I call "standard practices" to improve the strength of the components. The HP. applied will be aprox. 750 to 850.

My apology for not being a little more clear.
 
Red Diamond (RD) engines date back to 1940-41.

They are the factory replacement engines for the

FBB engine series. The FBB came in W40/WK40 tractors

so RD's are an ag engine. IIRC the RD501 was

introduced in 1954,1975 being the last year of

RD production.
 
560 transmission/rear end has more parts available

for what you have in mind. If possible a 656 rear

is better still. Pulloff.com is a good place

to start asking questions, 750-850 hp is entry level

over there. lol. Good luck and have fun.
 
it would be closer if it was a 400 or 450 vs 560 chassis....then a M....the 400/450 are 4 inches longer than a M plus have ta's just like a 560....either way you will have to buy a heavy duty ta that can take it if you know what I mean and a heavy duty clutch the rear end weather 560 or m 400/450 send out rear gears and get a good limited slip to make it pull better. gears and stuff in rear are strong in both tractors.....hope this helps im not getting into the other motor stuff they did enough of that in other posts I know your going v8.....

kelly
 
560 rears with all improved parts installed in the transmission and rear are the strongest.
They put in a stronger differential with tapered bearings to support it. Different bull pinion gears with bigger support bearing. Bull gears also with a different tooth angle. Then they started offering a roller inner axle bearing and a roller bearing to support the rear of the transmission main shaft. Also after a serial number break the rear main shaft bearing housing along with the transmission housing was changed from 3 bolt to 4 bolt support like a 660. 400 and 450 rears are much like a 560 so some parts interchange. Between SMTA to 450 W and F models and all the 560 models and the 660 several different transmission gear speeds and ring and pinion combinations can be used. F-560 has a deeper reduction R&P than the SMTA to F-450. Also standard first was deeper on a F-560. High speed 1&R on a F-560 was the same as SMTA to 450. 3rd and 4th gears also have more than one choice. Like someone said if using a T/A and depending on if shifting more than once a pull, at least the T/A clutch needs beefed up and the rest in top condition. Don't know about some of the beefed up T/A units, get conflicting reports.
from the rear of engine back a SMTA to 560 is the same. If I remember correct that's 5 inches longer than a M for the same distance.
 
If you want to pull open speed you need a 6 cylinder because you can get more cubes with less stork so you can turn more RPMS. I agree with what somebody else said if you put the speed limit on then you can run with them with most any brand. That was proven at Princeton thanksgiving week end. Open glass no speed limit Oliver 560 with RDs and MM dominate.
 
I was aware of the rd ag being a true antique but the real point was why bash the rd n not the others. Jmho if guy bashing wants some other ideas just ask, lots of ideas about rules to make things fair but none will fix all
 
Go with the 560 since you are putting a V-8 in it. The rear end will stand it but I"m not sure about the gearing for a high rpm V-8. Stay away from the 656 the bellhousing is sized for an 11" clutch.
 
Antique Tractor Pulling is out of control...PERIOD!! The sport was meant to be a low cost alternative to NTPA, but not anymore. Personally, I think there never should have been a tire size allowed bigger than a 15.5-38 & never should have allowed non replacement engines. Rules have been bent & grey areas have been colored & I'm afraid it has done nothing to help the sport. When it costs $20K plus to build a top notch antiquer, I see more & more people migrate towards hot farm tractors... & I can't blame them.
 
I agree 100 percent Cody. Only thing is when guys take the stock block and dump lots of money into it to try to stay "legal" that's where the RD motors are helping with the cost. I am talking about antique pulling of course, not open speed classes.
 
I agree somewhat Cody, the only problem is that here in western Iowa we have a limited pro class, 466, 3x4 turbo, and these guys are spending 50K on motors!!!
 
Doug,
nice talking to you last night...sorry I was busy working at the time....lol keep in touch
hop what info I gave you will help?
Kelly
 

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