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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions

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BL Puller

09-16-2013 10:30:21
216.176.66.18



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I was looking at tractors for sale on this site. Does anyone know if an Oliver 88 has a Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine in it, is legal for farm stock rules OEM replacement like a 310 Waukesha would be?

Or would it fall into a Open class ?

thanks in advance




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Gordey

09-19-2013 20:43:00
209.121.225.211



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
The 320 never came from the factory in any Oliver, only came in a Massey 1100.



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A.P.

09-20-2013 01:37:26
108.84.206.169



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to Gordey, 09-19-2013 20:43:00  
The GK195, at 320 C.I. is the same engine as the engine (302 C.I.) used in Super 99 and 950 gas tractors with the sleeves removed to increase the bore. It is technically a version of the GK195. The engine used in a Massey 1100 is a later model of the GK195 Waukesha, but it is not a technically a GK195. It has it's own model designation that I believe starts, if I recall correctly, as F320...



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M.Genrich

09-18-2013 10:32:38
166.182.3.9



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
Not that anyone cares but my thought is in the stock classes you should at least have a stock block, but I also feel natpa has done a pretty fair job of setting there rules. Around here stock means pretty much stock. D17 in a wc, 450 in an M, classic or improved class would be ok. A twelve port set up or a 195gk would be legal in the open classes, but a 195 in a 77 wouldent fly nor would a red diamond in 460, they aren't even the same lenth.If you want to push the rules that far why not put a 585 in a u Moline, or a 426 hemi in a wards? It comes down to this, What is antique tractor pulling?? By the way, I pull an Oliver!

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smokeshow

09-18-2013 10:56:51
12.44.210.21



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to M.Genrich, 09-18-2013 10:32:38  
I've seen many of 310 gassers in 77,770s in NATPA. Even in the 2TC, rules must not be to strict. If the only thing they check is a plug wire out the side shield.



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don't happen, sorry

09-18-2013 11:14:08
66.226.104.81



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to smokeshow, 09-18-2013 10:56:51  
come to an NATPA pull and point out when you see a 310 gas in a 77/770 that made it thru tech and is pulling. natpa pullers would catch it themselves also...don't hate---appreciate.



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smokeshow

09-18-2013 13:45:03
12.44.210.21



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to don't happen, sorry, 09-18-2013 11:14:08  
I dont pull with NATPA and have nothing agaist them but I do go and watch when they come to town. I'm not going to rat anyone out because I could care less what they run for an engine.



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A.P.

09-18-2013 15:22:15
65.183.164.82



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to smokeshow, 09-18-2013 13:45:03  
I suspect you are thinking of the USAP tractors (given your location in southern Indiana). These are legitimate swaps for USAP tractors, not NATPA tractors.



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RICHB

09-17-2013 14:13:06
208.105.96.178



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
From a legallity stand point...What are opinions on dropping a 88/super/880 engine in a 77 chassis? drops right in with hardly any mods..a chimp can do it....Is that much different than dropping a 195gk in a 88? (yes I know they fit in a 77)No gripe from me...I say run it.I would sooner take a 195gk over a 310 any day...In drop in form..not sure on a modified set up...Then I think I would think reverse crossflow set up for ultimate power.

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north puller

09-17-2013 07:13:02
207.219.69.151



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
The question of would it be legal has turned into should it be legal, and i will offer my 2 cents, after all, it's as worthless as anyone's.

If a person is allowed to build a 400 cubic inch engine from an 88 block, and run it in the stock class, then why can't a person install a 310 engine and run it in the stock class? The 310 engine swap would be more affordable for the average person.

Same goes for any engine swaps for farmall/Oliver/mini/Massey/Ford/etc.

Unless you are prepared to test for displacement, compression, and horse power, then having a stock block rule only benefits those with the money to modify their stock block to higher power levels.

It may not be perfect, but speed limits seem to be the accepted standard of controlling power.

If we all can admit that their is no power limit in the rules, and we don't want one, then why not allow any bolt in block?

If a club wants a power limit, a dyno is the only way. Having a stock block rule will not limit horse power, but having a horse power limit will keep out bigger blocks.

If the rule says no 310/320 block, then that's the rule. However, if the intent of the rule is to limit power, then it is kind of pointless. There are many ways around that. If the intent of the rule is to only allow big power to those who have money, then the rule should be re-examined.

That's my 2 cents. Hope you got your money's worth.

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MH55

09-17-2013 07:38:43
24.39.238.234



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to north puller, 09-17-2013 07:13:02  
Except that the guys with money will use the better block and heads and still spend the money. Making the "stock" 310 even more useless than the 400ci 88 motor when matched against an 400ci 12 port head 310...



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high octane

09-18-2013 08:13:31
37.228.111.141



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to MH55, 09-17-2013 07:38:43  
MH55, most around here take their olivers pretty seriously. ive never seen a 77,88 with a good 310 not do well in 3-4mph type classes. i cannot see a 400ci 88 build, be stronger than a 400ci 310. Id bet the 400ci 310 would have 15-20 hp more due the 12 port head vs a 400ci 88 with a decent 9 port head even with a murphys manifold. they may look simular, but the 310 is no 88. i have no problem pulling against a 77,88 with a 310, providing were all "honest" n know its there to begin with. i also say, it should be legal to put a 88 motor in a 77 n keep the 310-320 in the 88s so everyone has a low budget engine swap option.

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MH55

09-18-2013 21:51:08
67.242.164.65



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to high octane, 09-18-2013 08:13:31  
My point was that a 400ci 310 WOULD be better than a 400ci early block and that if 310's were legal in a certain class most "serious" pullers would have the 310 punched out as well as running the 12 port head. My statement was in response to northpuller's assertion that allowing 310's would be no different than allowing 400ci 88's.

Most Oliver pullers in my neck of the woods are pretty damn serious as well. And I'm sure they would love to have a 12 port head as well...

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high octane

09-17-2013 07:25:38
37.228.111.140



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to north puller, 09-17-2013 07:13:02  
put the 88s 9 port head on the 310 vs the 12 port head, run 88 intake n carb be more fair that allowing a 12 port headed 310.



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steve il

09-16-2013 19:55:17
50.103.147.133



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
not wanting to start an argument, but 88 with a 310 or 320 is no different than a 560 with a RD501 or a u Moline with 800 jugs. my 2 cents worth.



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Bryant Garland

09-16-2013 18:40:59
166.216.194.186



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
Does it really matter if its the stock engine, or a Big block Chev. Remember most pulls are governed by a speed limit, and Some clubs just don't see the light yet....
USAP have the best rules by a long shot...



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Justwondering

09-16-2013 15:56:10
174.255.48.98



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
USAP rules say must have stock ag engine. 310 and 195 gk are not stock. How and why are these allowed?



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A.P.

09-17-2013 02:17:49
108.84.206.169



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to Justwondering, 09-16-2013 15:56:10  
The 310 and GK195 were stock in other Oliver models. It's acceptable under USAP rules.



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LCB

09-16-2013 15:33:57
69.35.208.126



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
Casey is a little different then anyplace else. You can run it except there farm stock which SUPOSDED to be complete stock include motor drawbar no hang on weights 16in drawbar. If you want to go anywhere else they wont have a class for you. So change your motor fix it up to go pull and have fun no matter where you go except NATPA. Most every thing around here is basic USAP rules with some speed limit rules that are different. Hope this helps if it don't call 618 664 2732 and ask for Leroy and I will try and help.

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VicS

09-16-2013 17:09:47
70.195.64.227



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to LCB, 09-16-2013 15:33:57  
LCB is right. No body checks your engine. You can just go 4 mph anyway. Some places 3 mph. I have pulled against Olivers with 292 Chevys in them. Why make it expensive to be competitive. Vic



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Travis M

09-16-2013 11:28:24
99.74.3.33



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
Where are you pulling and with what organization.



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BL Puller

09-16-2013 11:56:59
216.176.66.18



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to Travis M, 09-16-2013 11:28:24  
South Central IL
multiple places

Casey/Shumway/ Sigel/stewardson



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LCB

09-16-2013 10:46:29
69.35.208.126



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
Around southern Il the are legal and very common I think they think that is what they come out with they all run them..



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49oliver88

09-16-2013 10:40:34
76.1.61.75



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to BL Puller, 09-16-2013 10:30:21  
Where is it that a 310 is oem replacement on an 88? And most places 310 and 320 are deemed illegal they are longer than the 88 block so its not a replacement motor



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A.P.

09-17-2013 02:23:36
108.84.206.169



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to 49oliver88, 09-16-2013 10:40:34  
Block length and bore spacing are the same. The deck height on the 310 and GK195 are a bit higher than the 88 series block. Some places the swap isn't within the rules, other places it is. It all depends where you are, who you plan to pull with and what their rules are.



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88-1175

09-16-2013 21:24:14
67.171.105.117



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to 49oliver88, 09-16-2013 10:40:34  
the 320 head will bolt directly onto an 88 block,a 310 can be made too also,9 of the 14 head bolts line up,same c to c bore spacing,your info is wrong



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smokeshow

09-16-2013 13:57:05
12.44.210.21



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to 49oliver88, 09-16-2013 10:40:34  
The 310/320 bolts in 77/88 frame without any mods minus radiator hoses and input shaft. Per USAP rules they are allowed in farm stock.



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778899m

09-16-2013 14:13:08
162.72.76.235



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to smokeshow, 09-16-2013 13:57:05  
NOT LEGAL IN NATPA.



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rip it

09-16-2013 14:57:03
68.118.89.38



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to 778899m, 09-16-2013 14:13:08  
NATPA is crap .Run what you brung ..........



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dboll

09-16-2013 19:15:01
209.23.168.201



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to rip it, 09-16-2013 14:57:03  
well rip it would you please host some winter pulls in the upper midwest, I would come pull. NATPA isn't perfect but they are at least providing a place to compete on a national level, Lincoln is the closest for me and it's still 250 miles away, I would go to more if distance and livestock were not a factor.



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778899m

09-16-2013 18:43:30
162.72.76.235



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 Re: Oliver 88 Gk 195 320ci Waukesha engine questions in reply to rip it, 09-16-2013 14:57:03  
someone will always one up ya,FOR SURE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!



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