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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

welded rods

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JDguy1

03-27-2013 18:31:23
208.38.95.230



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What are you guys thoughts opinions on welded rods? Do you just butt the two ends weld it and call it good? or do you box them in? Any pics?




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on a budget

03-31-2013 12:05:43
166.182.3.55



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
A few months ago I brought up the subject of welded rods on this sight and was told what an idot I am and that it would never work. However, In 1995 i built myself a 521 inch 88 oliver with welded rods and after countless passes and four owners later the rods havent caused any problems. 25 years ago we didnt know what custom rods were. Custom rods are the best thing since sliced bread, They are strong and much less work is required to get them to clear the cam and block. You can choose a common bearing, and all you need is a credit card to get the ball rolling! Its kind of like buying a new car, if your pockets are deep you can drive a cadilac. If child support, helth ins, auto ins, and the cost of living is bitting you in the butt then you may have to drive a used toyota. Did I mention I have a chevy luv in my fleet??!!

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LKirby

03-30-2013 13:02:11
66.87.25.227



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
The F-30 Earl mentioned is ours... It was Merfeld built and poor quality welded rods. Welded rods are fine done correctly. The ones Jim Hutson put together are very nice!



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jd b puller

03-29-2013 17:43:09
65.190.129.111



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  


If the only tool in your toolbox is a hammer, everything starts to look like a nail.
Gary builds $20k engines and Dave buys them, of course they suggest billet rods (No offense intended at either of you), once you're in that deep there's no reason to cut corners.
Some people don't want to or can't spend that much. Welded rods work (most of the time). I have heard of 1 billet failing, but don't know the details. 3 of the sets of billets I've done were for people who failed welded rods in the last year.
Here's a Welded rod from 7-8 years ago from my first build. Rod wasn't the problem and as you can see, it didn't break or fail at the weld. Apparently, it's a bad idea to weld a piece of aluminum to an airplane piston. When it separates, it makes a bit of a mess. Note to self, use forged pistons designed for the job, not cobbling something together.

This post was edited by jd b puller at 17:45:51 03/29/13.

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Dave Thompson jr

03-29-2013 19:28:57
64.184.126.173



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 Re: welded rods in reply to jd b puller, 03-29-2013 17:43:09  
Gary Baker builds some of the best engines. I am not running one of his engines Paul built it. and it has ran the last 5 years with only changing rod and main bearings on the crankshaft. They dont and wont use welded rods. They build a good product and it is worth spending the money. As far as spending 20k on a good engine I did and more. If you want something dependable use good parts and there are a lot less problems.

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Travis M

03-29-2013 18:19:31
166.182.80.154



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 Re: welded rods in reply to jd b puller, 03-29-2013 17:43:09  
Some might say welding two pieces of connecting rod together is cobbling something together



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gojdpuller

03-29-2013 07:42:22
198.228.228.158



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
I had my dad weld a set for me he welded one as practice to see what rod to use this is a B rod butt welded he said to try and break it so we layed it against a wood block and pounded on it with a 8lb maul it bent like a horse shoe then flipped it around and after about 5 hits it broke



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Travis M

03-28-2013 22:04:10
99.59.14.208



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
I sold a tractor to gary with welded rods in it which he can tell you what happened to it. No more welded rods for us



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Dave Thompson jr

03-28-2013 17:42:24
64.184.126.173



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
I agree with what Gary Baker said. Buy a good set of billet rods and do it correct. With the stroke people are putting in engines and the rpms I would only use the best. I find it hard to believe that Josh Blackburn is using welded rods in his engines. I know the guy who taught him to make stroker cranks wouldnt have used welded rods.



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dboll

03-29-2013 19:40:14
209.23.168.220



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Dave Thompson jr, 03-28-2013 17:42:24  
There's a difference in welders skills and the end result. Not saying they are the best idea, among other things they are heavier but I have a set of welded and boxed Paulsen rods that you could put in your 20K engine and never wreck them. On the other hand turn key engines are not my thing, I'd just as soon build my own and if I had 20K plus to spend on a tractor it would go towards a 3594 or a Magnum.

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Josh Blackburn

03-29-2013 10:28:49
70.194.5.43



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Dave Thompson jr, 03-28-2013 17:42:24  
Yes billet in theory are best. I"ve heard of more billets shearing off at caps then welded breaking. Billets for big deeres are built to lightly in my opinion. I won"t mention names or companies but I have had pics sent to me bragging about how much lighter his rods are then others. Lighter and weaker. And the better built have had problems. When I"m done with most welded rods for the big deeres you wouldn"t even know they were welded. Very strong. As far as Jim not running welded rods that"s untrue. I know for a fact he has and they are still running. Like I said when done right and not scabbed together they hold. We have no billets in any of our tractors. Broke cranks, cams and more and never a rod.

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Unstylish

03-29-2013 07:25:53
198.228.228.147



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Dave Thompson jr, 03-28-2013 17:42:24  
Well Dave there is a right way and a wrong way to do things. Billet rods are relatively new, Dave . It was all guys had years ago. It just depends on how good of a welder you are. The guy Josh bought his stuff from was the best welder I've ever seen. I know you might find it hard to believe, but maybe you need to look at things a little differently..



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Gary Baker

03-28-2013 15:30:34
70.199.100.246



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
Why would you even think of using welded rods. Good chance of breaking and injuring you or somewone else. Billet rods are cheaper in the long run.



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JDguy1

03-28-2013 09:30:00
198.228.228.155



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
Its a smaller G using 4020 and G rod, would you box around the weld or box the whole rod?



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Mopar-Harris

03-28-2013 06:56:16
68.171.23.177



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
Oopppsss did not rrealize I was not signed in.

CAP Bros Motorsports has a variation that is stronger than butt welding and lighter than boxing.
Email or call

Pete Petznick

Capbrosms@gmail.com

816.308.8878



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Pete Petznick

03-28-2013 06:53:59
68.171.23.177



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
CAP Bros Motorsports has a variation that is stronger than butt welding and lighter than boxing.

Email or call
Pete Petznick
Capbrosms@gmail.com
816.308.8878



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Josh Blackburn

03-28-2013 04:41:23
174.239.34.44



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
Depends on your engine. We have put some good size g's together welded boxed rods. One 840 cube with 12 to 1 compression. All of our personal big deeres are welded rods. I built a good size B for a gentlemen in NY and it has welded rods not boxed from top to bottom, he turns it at around 22-2300 rpm or better. There's some vids on YouTube. http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=78qAAhvcFFs&feature=plcp. That being said I have had succes with welded Rods. If done correctly they will hold. I've seen non boxed Rods in a 883 cube g. So far they have held but I wouldn't want to be on the seat. What engine are you trying to build? SiZe and rpm are a factor.

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Josh Blackburn

03-28-2013 05:07:21
174.239.34.44



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Josh Blackburn, 03-28-2013 04:41:23  
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Uok7XZ4zJdw&feature=relmfu



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Earl-IL

03-27-2013 19:08:52
50.81.209.158



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
I saw a butt weld rod break on a F30 at idle and it wiped out the block manifold & carb.Many times & stood beside that tractor to adjust the carb. I thank God I wasn't there that day. Boxed rod only!!!!!!



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JDTH

03-28-2013 06:23:27
23.25.152.37



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Earl-IL, 03-27-2013 19:08:52  
I"ve had welded rods in tractors for over 10 years. The success of the welded rod depends on who & the process the rods are welded. I also have seen welded rods break, ironically, the rod broke slightly (about an inch) up form the welded area. The tractor was just idling at the time. Billet rods are a great direction to go, but not necessary in all builds. Just my opinion.



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VicS

03-27-2013 19:00:48
70.195.0.237



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 Re: welded rods in reply to JDguy1, 03-27-2013 18:31:23  
I have some in our Allis Mazda big end and big block Ford small end. Just butted together. Kieth Merfield welded them. I had them straightened, balanced and cryogenic (put them in a freezer with liquid Nitrogen in a oven and heated them to 350 I think)Did the entire engine with it apart. That was 10 yrs ago. No problems, but I do think about it, and go real easy on the motor. Vic



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Ray Tellin

03-27-2013 21:04:12
166.181.80.168



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 Re: welded rods in reply to VicS, 03-27-2013 19:00:48  
Do you remember how much you had in them compared to a billet set?



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VicS

03-28-2013 11:06:07
70.195.2.143



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Ray Tellin, 03-27-2013 21:04:12  
At the time Billet were $1000 Keith Made the rods and stroked the crank to 5.75 for that. It cost $300 to freeze it. Friend at the speed shop balanced and checked for straight and length for free. Keith had already done that they were fine.



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2-banger

03-29-2013 16:00:11
70.192.15.224



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 Re: welded rods in reply to VicS, 03-28-2013 11:06:07  
Kieth did a set of rods for someone i know and they looked awful...joshs rods are pretty nice..my 60 has had joshs welded rods in it for 3 yrs no issues



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baldwin racing

03-28-2013 08:46:12
50.75.104.34



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 Re: welded rods in reply to Ray Tellin, 03-27-2013 21:04:12  
my rods would cost me $375 to get done if i supply them and they just get welded.....vs billet ones $1,200



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