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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

building a farmall m for pulling ????

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alex t

10-18-2012 16:50:21
98.132.231.144



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hello i have recently purchased a 1948 farmall m and i would like to make it into a decent pulling tractor to be competitive for the farmstock classes. The motor in the tractor burns oil and is worn. i purchased a bare farmall 400 block that i want to build into a 281 for this m. I have the cam, crankshaft, govener, rods,etc to build the motor but my problem is i do not have a head from a farmall 400. I have a 8060 head off of another 1948 farmall m that is good and a 8574 head off of a super mta but will either of these heads work if i have 4 1/8 fire crater pistons from hy-capacity in this 400 block or will the pistons hit the head ? any advice at all would be greatly apriciated!

thanks, alex

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mm585

10-20-2012 20:13:52
166.182.3.239



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
Alex, Im not sure where some of the horsepower figures are coming from, and I wish I could find a set of magic pistons that make 100 hp like dennys sells, but for what its worth here is what I have found to be true. Super M, 8060 head milled down to the point I had to braze and redrill the triangle water holes, 4 1/8 m&w pistons, johnson manifold, msd box, and an m&w governor. bigger venturi and nozzle in the carb. 58 hp at 540 on an old 100 horse m&w dyno on pump gas. I pulled this tractor back in the early 80's with nine bolt dual hubs and 18.4-34 firestone tires that were around 20%. stock drawbar and ten psi air press. we pulled it up to 10500 and beat several 4020 and 806 out of the field gas tractors. It was alot of fun on a little money. It wouldent be competitive in my area anymore. I miss those days!!!

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jimmy pine

10-20-2012 15:36:31
24.105.194.198



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
i have a 42 m. i tore it all apart and did a cam from crane cams, stock pistons just new rings and a 450 gas head. idk how much horse power im putting up but i can pull on a tsled 6500 lbs in 3rd and 2nd gear and run out of traction before power



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clampdaddy

10-19-2012 21:39:40
50.8.151.226



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
Wow, lots of good info guys. I grew up farming on green tractors but have a tired engine that came out of my McCormick 0-6 that my uncle is pulling and I've been thinking about souping it up for when I run across a deal on an M. Any heat issues when running one minus the sleeves?



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alex t

10-19-2012 09:30:01
98.132.231.144



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
i would like to be in that 60 70 hp range without spending big $$$$ on a stroker kit or lp head or boring the block. is this possible ? or is it worth it to just bore and invest in an lp head now then in the future?



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north puller

10-19-2012 11:05:09
68.171.231.83



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-19-2012 09:30:01  
Don't quote me on the price, but Murphy's, Extreme, and Baker have all told me around the $800 range for a custom piston set.

At that price, you can bore the block and buy the large head gasket, and not be out much more money than a 281 piston and sleeve kit.

Just make the compression ratio work with the head you have.

A bore anywhere from 4.280" to 4.375" with 10 - 12 for compression, even with the SM gas head should put you anywhere from 65 - 75 hp.

The largest bore and a 450LP head would creap up on 80hp.

Add a cam, and you should be able to do pistons, gaskets, cam job, block bore, and all for $1500 - $2000.

If you are going with the largest bore (4.375"), go with the BEST machine shop you can find. If a bore is off center, the sleeve can break through or seperate from the deck.

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mm585

10-19-2012 08:25:50
166.182.3.37



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
I hear you bp4455. This is what the stock class has come to. If you dont have a hundred horse M your not competitive. We had to switch to DIV.5 because we didnt have enouff ponys to run DIV.2!!



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drop it

10-19-2012 19:43:53
69.41.12.207



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to mm585, 10-19-2012 08:25:50  
you don't have enough power for any division!! you try to speak professional and it is really funny!!!!!! hahahahahaha



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mm585

10-20-2012 18:35:13
166.182.3.169



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to drop it, 10-19-2012 19:43:53  
Hey drop it....Kiss my a$$! When you know me, have been to my shop and seen our work you can talk all the smack you want, Untill then back off!



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north puller

10-19-2012 09:11:25
68.171.231.82



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to mm585, 10-19-2012 08:25:50  
Enough to run, or enough to win?

Yea, a 100hp tractor may idle down the track in 3rd gear, and open her up at the end and do a 5mph burnout.

55-60hp should be enough to run 3mph in 1st gear.

45 is enough to go down the track in 1st.

Along with speed limits and tire limits, should a rule say that you can't touch the throttle after it is set for the speed?

This isn't kindergarden. There will be winners and losers.

Isn't it all the more fun the odd time that your 60hp tractor beats a 100hp tractor, even if you didn't get 1st?

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The tractor vet

10-18-2012 21:58:41
75.24.0.62



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
All good idea's BUT Think about this . a plain old 450 gas head and a set of high alt. pistons not many know of theses and i know of only one place to get them . BUT let me tell ya ya want pony power they will get you there . for the stock class . They are alot better then the fire curator or sept heads . I have one S/MTA with these in it and it will put the best running 706 i have to shame . and darn near equal my 806 . This tractor was done many years ago and out performed many 560's . What the old man that did the work the first time after this tractor burnt under a corn picker was to BUILD it and what they used was the 450 gas head a 450 intake and exhaust manifold a recurved dist. a 450 carb and at the time a 450 cam . It ran for forty years before she got tired . and it ran better then my S/MTA and mine runs good . When i pulled her down i found pistons that i had never seen before and the customer wanted it to run like it use to . so i went on the hunt and i know lots of people . ONE OLD guy that i know deals in I H parts and i asked Clyde about these pistons and he told me that they are above 8500 ft. high alt. pistons and yes he can still get them as i just talked to him last week and he is still alive at 91 . Vernon's S/MTA will do 92 .4 Hp at rated PTo and peak at just shy of 100 Hp. . No he does not pull it he farms with it and grinds feed with it . i have seen it pulling 4x16 oliver plows at 8-10 inches deep running high third and not even really opening the gov. I have seen it blow the gear box out of a I H forage chopper in second gear in good corn . If it had a 1000 rpm pto i am sure it would run the 782 new holland chopper .

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jd 70 puller

10-20-2012 08:04:36
69.129.13.198



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to The tractor vet, 10-18-2012 21:58:41  
HI tractor vet please shoot me an emial with clydes phone # or part # and name of pistons and company for those pistons. Thanks



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north puller

10-19-2012 08:27:44
68.171.231.80



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to The tractor vet, 10-18-2012 21:58:41  
92hp?? From a 281???

That's .327 hp per inch! With numbers like that, Baker and Marlatt will be out of business in no time!

What you want for a set of those pistons? I'll take 20 sets if you guarantee the power.



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LarryM

10-18-2012 20:20:46
76.208.70.247



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
If you are intent on using it for daily use then I would recommend a reground cam, a C-281 gas head, a C-281 gas manifold (three rib), and the right carb setup. Also making the head flow and port matching the manifold make a big difference. If you have not bought your pistons then I would have your block checked to see if you can bore it to 4.375 and run a custom piston on the block. If this helps I have a used C-281 with 4.125" comformatic pistons that has 67 hp at 540. I plan to put a reground cam in it this winter and see what I can get for horsepower. Then if I want more I will decide whether to stroke it or try an LP head. It all comes down to how many ponies you want and what you wallet says you can spend. Right now my cost per horsepower is less than 4 dollars and that includes the carb modifications.

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alex t

10-18-2012 20:13:28
98.132.231.144



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
i would like have the lp head but ive done some research on them and found they go for big $$$$.. so it would be cheaper if one the two heads ive got will work and i will do some polishing a porting on them and ive also got a lp manifold i will bolt on.



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m manley

10-18-2012 19:39:51
216.18.254.106



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
ditch the 400 head idea look for a propane head bore your engine without sleeves to 4-3/8 you will like it better?



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lmbky

10-18-2012 18:53:08
76.182.159.233



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
id buy a faarmstock ready to hook ,be cheaper and then when ur ready to move up spend spend spend. i found this out the hard way jmho



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OldMoIron

10-18-2012 17:29:34
71.1.126.144



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 16:50:21  
farmstock as div 1 or 2. Classic farm stock pulling requires stock engine for that tractor. Might want to know what the club or rules allow.



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alex t

10-18-2012 19:30:18
98.132.231.144



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to OldMoIron, 10-18-2012 17:29:34  
not sure of our rules in our club, but i no not everyone is "stock" anymore. but im only going to use the tractor for a few pulls in the summer,a few tractor rides, and do a little work with it around the yard



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jd b puller

10-19-2012 14:37:53
65.190.135.248



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 19:30:18  
Stock typically means it looks stock on the outside. Tire rules, RPM, and hitch height.

I've seen some places limit compression.



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baldwin racing

10-19-2012 01:09:38
74.79.154.169



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to alex t, 10-18-2012 19:30:18  
alex,

have the 400 block checked bore it to 4 3/8 and run no sleeves..this is no dif. than a chevy 350 running will not hurt block to run around oil is lubing cylinders.....prefer lp head you can buy them for 750-800 bare (reman) but if not run the gas 450 head. have large valves put in it and shave it....port match intake,bore carb,and move up to 7 inch stroker or talk to a murphy's,baker,or ray @ extreme and buy a motor kit...send them your stock stuff and they send you stuff already done....crank,piston,cam and so on

kelly

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bp4455

10-19-2012 08:13:50
70.194.7.82



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to baldwin racing, 10-19-2012 01:09:38  
you realize he wants a near stock tractor right?



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baldwin racing

10-19-2012 13:52:36
74.79.154.169



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 Re: building a farmall m for pulling ???? in reply to bp4455, 10-19-2012 08:13:50  
sorry did not read that....lol nevermind dont listen to me.....



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