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Compression ratio

M

Midnightrider

Member
Can anyone tell me anything about the compression that will be obtained from this kit found on here? I have a WD45 and i need more power to turn 15.5x38s.


[b:46cd42fbfc]Sleeve & Piston Kit - Contains sleeves, pistons, pins, retainers, top chrome & oil control ring set. Overbore from 4" to 4-1\8". For WD45 and D17 with 226 CID 4-cyl gas engines. (Part No: PK121) $345.84[/b:46cd42fbfc]
 
Those kits have a fairly low compression ratio and don't give you much power.

Someone else will chime in here with exact figures for you, but I believe that if you order a kit for a WD 4 1/8" overbore it will give you around 9:1 compression which should wake up your WD45. 240 cubes and 9:1 should make decent power. Again, one of the allis experts should be able to tell you how much power to expect.
 
i would go with a kit that had flattop pistons in it. we pull with a guy that put a wd45 kit with dish top pistons for a wd45 in his 45 and i had a wc with the same motor and everything alike but i had flattop 4 1/8 pistons in mine and i could out pull him everytime. i would go with flattop pistons in a kit.
 
I sold a set of pistons like this for a guy up in NY. He bought the kit you're talking about basically for the sleeves, pins and rings and used my pistons. Somewhere I've got a picture showing how much taller the new pistons were. I'll try to find it or at least what the numbers are. He's around 11:1 and has the throttle lever direct to the carb. (no governor input). It sounds about like wi50's tractor going down the track.
 

Those overhaul kits are very good for Farm-use on regular gas..
The original "Gas" WD-45 Comp is 6.5:1
Basic WD-45 w 1/8" "Kit" is around 7.2:1
The D-17 Kit will fit a WD-45 and will give 7.4:1

I can tell you, anything over 7.5:1 is TOO much for average "Farm use" on regular Gas...
Anything more and tuning becomes Very Critical..

Pullers are using way more compression than these basic kits provide..But, as JDBP said, they are a great source for sleeves, etc...!

Ron..
 
those pk121 sets are less than 7.5 to 1

I had a set here, measured them up and CC's the dish and did the math. I don't rember exactly, but it was between 7 and 7.5 to 1
 
How about these,any ideas on these?

Piston & Sleeve, Single Cylinder , Flat Piston - Overbore from 4in. to 4-18in. For 226 CID Gas engine on: 170, 175, D17, WD45. Includes: 'Flat' Piston, rings, pin, retainers, liner. FOR 1 CYLINDER. (Part No: SK156) $93.71

Piston - Flat top high compression piston 4 18 INCH BORE. For Models: 170, 175, D17 all w gas engines and W25, WC, WD, WD45, WF. (Part No: PA30) $67.74
 

I don't know what you are after but I may have some parts here you may want. Give a call sometime 715-790-1869
 
Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
 
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
Click to expand...

some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
 
The majority of new kits are below the original compression ratio. when increasing compression ratio a engine becomes more efficient. Produces more heat also a 13.1 compression ratio will have a measured heat now less than 1425 degrees f at the exhaust valve so the material of the pistons and exhaust valve need to be considered. Cheap is what it is and setting on the trailer is what it is also. No fun.
 
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11)
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
Click to expand...

some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
Click to expand...
BS all the way
 
a 4.5 crank with standard AC rods won't put a piston out the top....I have a 45 block & crank with LeRoi 8" rods & WD 4.125 PC M&W pistons cut back to put the piston at TDC .275 in the hole with a 1cc crater left in the center & a blue fel-pro gasket .042 thick makes 13.75:1 cr. & 310psi. dry cyl. pressure at cranking speed ...that is with a 4in. AC head.....any closer to the top & you're into diesel cr.....I have pic. & spec. in my log as I built it....Kent
 
forgot to post that you need to check your deck height when you figure cr. ...mine had been milled .030 in the past making it 12.626 instead of factory spec. 12.656....Kent
 

so I posted some true information of what I stuck in my dads "stock" engine and now I'm full of BS.

I really do have one jelous internet stalker.
 
(quoted from post at 18:26:53 04/21/11)
so I posted some true information of what I stuck in my dads "stock" engine and now I'm full of BS.

I really do have one jelous internet stalker.
Click to expand...
funny how kents numbers dont jive with yours either
 


Maybe one of us had a taller or shorter set of pistons? Don't know but I checked mine and know what it was. Seen it and measured it.

I took an old Gleaner E engine apart, put in the M&W's and with a straight edge across the top of the liner (bolted liners down) the straight edge came up when I turned the engine over, I measured the amount and trimmed the necessary amount off to get .010 popup. I used Allis rods, stock crank, stock block and a new set of liners and rings.

I did question it as with the rods, crank and piston comp hite it should have been fine, but I measured the block to be 12.63.... you can search old posts if you'd like, on Unofficial Allis, I posted the question as it seamed to short. Probably a December date on it or so if it'll help your narrow mind.
 
(quoted from post at 18:59:08 04/21/11)

Maybe one of us had a taller or shorter set of pistons? Don't know but I checked mine and know what it was. Seen it and measured it.

I took an old Gleaner E engine apart, put in the M&W's and with a straight edge across the top of the liner (bolted liners down) the straight edge came up when I turned the engine over, I measured the amount and trimmed the necessary amount off to get .010 popup. I used Allis rods, stock crank, stock block and a new set of liners and rings.

I did question it as with the rods, crank and piston comp hite it should have been fine, but I measured the block to be 12.63.... you can search old posts if you'd like, on Unofficial Allis, I posted the question as it seamed to short. Probably a December date on it or so if it'll help your narrow mind.
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S50 Length x diameter x 3.1416 = volume in cubic inches. 82 cc's is 5 cubic inches . So the dish of the piston would need to be the total bore diameter4.125 .387 deep. You have to love mathematical equations and engineering
 
You're confused again. I used M&W pistons as I stated, the original M&W's have approxamatly a 70CC dish in them. They are much taller than Allis pistons but have a much larger dish. That dish is pretty deep to start with, .700 range (again going from memory) I trimmed them out another 12 CC for a total of 82CC. With the displacement of my valves takeing up a few CC and the additional volume from the valve reliefs I cut and figureing a .045 head gasket, .010 popup (or an effective .035 head gasket) I get 11.25 compression.......

I used M&W AP 46 WD pistons which are almost 3" tall (don't rember exactly)compression height, add the 7.5 rod and 2.25 half stroke and you get 12.75. If I rember correctly the M&W's are 2.9 or 2.94 stick in my mind.

Let me lay this out plain and simple

2.25 half stroke length
7.5 center to center rod length
2.9 piston (though it may be slightly more I really think it was 2.94)
add up to 12.65

So I trimmed them .030 (or whatever it was as I stated in the original post) for a .010 popup (which makes my 2.94 number seam legit)

My numbers add up just fine, though I suppose one could juggle things around and get a 11.15 or 11.3 comp, I'll stick with my 11.25 for all practical purposes.

Had I used Allis pistons or some other aftermarket pistons though the numbers would be different.
 
if you go do the math on Kendaks post, you'll realize that it is also legit,

the M&W AP 46 piston as we both used has roughly a .700 dish in it and is 2.9 or 2.94 tall (can't rember and don't care much). He trimmed the pistons to the bottom as he stated for a 1cc dish.

As he stated with a block that was milled to about 12.63 and a piston .275 in the hole

8" Rod
2.25 half crank stroke
2.94 piston
add up to 13.19

take 13.19 and subtract the deck hite of his block to be 12.63 and you get .56 popout of the block, then cut off the approxamatly .700 or more (those M&W dishes are deep) extra meterial from the top of the M&W to get a flat top with the slight dish and his numbers add up just as well as mine do.

I'm quite sure Kendaks math is just fine, as mine is just fine also.

Next time you try to pick on me, get your facts and numbers straight.
 
Correct me if I am wrong, but volume is inches cubed. Your equation actually gives area (inches squared). The correct formula for volume of a cylinder is: pi * radius squared times length. Your formula would work on a 4" bore, but that is it.
 
(quoted from post at 03:54:54 04/22/11) Correct me if I am wrong, but volume is inches cubed. Your equation actually gives area (inches squared). The correct formula for volume of a cylinder is: pi * radius squared times length. Your formula would work on a 4" bore, but that is it.
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cylinder = b h = pi r 2 h it only misses by .100 still means he is not .010 above the deck . ever seen a piston with a 4.125 bore with a 82 cc dish? glad you caught it though for i did it purposely that way . for yet others could see it and ponder it. .700 off a piston top to make the math work equally come on now.
 

maybe instead of "dish" I should use the term "bowl"

If you ever look at a genuine M&W piston, you will see what I am talking about, the bowl is verry large and there is a heart shaped knob in the piston bowl, dish or whatever you wish to call it.

Take and CC an AP 46 or AP 48 M&W piston, and you will find that in stock form it is approxamatly 70CC, cut the little knob out of it and that adds 6-8CC so to get the bowl volume to 82CC it doesn't require that much machining. I simply put the cross slide at an angle and cut a nice taper in the bowl, checked the volume a few times allong the way to get it correct.

Now lets take my approxamate specs for the AP46 M&W piston, for the original application of a WD, it has a 2.9 or 2.94 comp hite, though I just don't rember exactly which one. With the 70CC bowl in it, you can do the math to find that in a WD, 4" crank and 7.5 rod the compression comes out between 7.5 and 8 to 1


2.9+7.5+2.25 comes out to 12.65.......... and I mentioned that my block was just a bit shorter than that, hence a slight trim for the piston.

Now if one looks at other aftermarket pistons than the M&W, they have a nice little dish in them, that is about 30-35CC, but the compression height is less. THose pistons if one does the math on them usually add up to around 7.5 to 1 or slightly less for the applications.
 
(quoted from post at 05:59:22 04/22/11)
maybe instead of "dish" I should use the term "bowl"

If you ever look at a genuine M&W piston, you will see what I am talking about, the bowl is verry large and there is a heart shaped knob in the piston bowl, dish or whatever you wish to call it.

Take and CC an AP 46 or AP 48 M&W piston, and you will find that in stock form it is approxamatly 70CC, cut the little knob out of it and that adds 6-8CC so to get the bowl volume to 82CC it doesn't require that much machining. I simply put the cross slide at an angle and cut a nice taper in the bowl, checked the volume a few times allong the way to get it correct.

Now lets take my approxamate specs for the AP46 M&W piston, for the original application of a WD, it has a 2.9 or 2.94 comp hite, though I just don't rember exactly which one. With the 70CC bowl in it, you can do the math to find that in a WD, 4" crank and 7.5 rod the compression comes out between 7.5 and 8 to 1


2.9+7.5+2.25 comes out to 12.65.......... and I mentioned that my block was just a bit shorter than that, hence a slight trim for the piston.

Now if one looks at other aftermarket pistons than the M&W, they have a nice little dish in them, that is about 30-35CC, but the compression height is less. THose pistons if one does the math on them usually add up to around 7.5 to 1 or slightly less for the applications.
Click to expand...
B 4.125 To Have 82CC must be the total base or bore .375 deep . lets say you have .0625 ledge to make a four inch diameter dish then the depth would need to be even more than .375. also per mand w the turbo dome raised the compression sp-48 piston number to 7.3comp
 
i know a way that you can get the power cause i pull a wd45 setup like this and it will spinout 15.5x38 firestones all day long and has out pulled some big hp oliver 88 and farmall ms in stock classes and it is only 260 cubes. take the 45 crank and offset grind it from 2 3/8 journals to 2 inches. get some buda diesel rods and get a set of wc/wd 4 1/8 sleeves and wc/wd flattop 4 1/8 pistons. i got used sleeves and pistons in mind that i paid $100 for. my cam is also regound and this setup puts the piston 400 thousandths from the top of the block. did a good 3 angle valve job on valves and put a wd45 diesel rearend under it and i can pull up to 6500lbs with it and spin out the 15.5s. i also think that if you just use the flattops and put a diesel rearend under it it will turn the 15.5 tires. i have pulled against a wd45 that has the dish top wd45 pistons in it and mine was a wc with the higher 1st gear and the only difference was mine had flattops and i could out pull him most all the time. i also outpulled him with a stock unstyled wc with the 201 in it many times. the guy that i talked with when i built mine told me to use flattops over dish tops anytime cause it would build compression. it is your money and i didnt have alot of money to spen on mine and i am very happy how it pulls and the power it has. have won alot and beat alot of bigger tractors on red sticky clay tracks. if the tracks down here are good they will bite and you better have some power and mine never ran out of power on any tracks yet. just my 2 cents worth and my experiences with my setup and wd45.
 

The M&W pistons have about a 3.4 or 3.6 diameter dish at the top, and closer to 3" at the bottom. Again, just going from memory but if one looks at them and does some measureing, I'm not far off.

I know I cut a pretty good taper to closly follow the original contour and only clean it up. I had to set the cross slide at one angle and trim the sides and then re set and cut the bottom taper with a 1/4" round nose carbide tool to leave a nice radius in the corner. The bottom of the original dish is also tapered, lower in the center and tapered up twards the outside. It wasn't hard to get 82cc of water in them. I then cut about 6cc worth of valve reliefs in them for a total negative volume of about 88cc. That gave me a final CR of 11.25 to 1 with my head gasket figures and valve volume, plug pockets etc.

Kind of funny how my same information last night was BS and today it's legit........ there's one nice thing about haveing correct information, the math alwayse adds up

I do not know what Kendak used for sure, none of my business. I'm simply giveing what I used and all of it works out just fine.
 

sometime this past winter, there was a post on Unofficial Allis from someone who used the same M&W pistons I did, stock 4.5" crank and stock rods.

In the topic, they stated that the pin bosses broke in the piston, and that the valves hit the top of the piston. I rember thinking that he must have been lucky, maybe has a block on the tall side of spec or a pretty thick head gasket as in my block things were just a little bit to tall, but my block measured up on the short side also, and I'm useing a Fel Pro gasket that's real close to .045. I know Pankey commented on the topic....... more proof that I'm not full of BS and that my numbers above are as legit as any.

He's just trying to cause problems with anything I post, plain and simple
 
(quoted from post at 08:59:49 04/22/11)
sometime this past winter, there was a post on Unofficial Allis from someone who used the same M&W pistons I did, stock 4.5" crank and stock rods.

In the topic, they stated that the pin bosses broke in the piston, and that the valves hit the top of the piston. I rember thinking that he must have been lucky, maybe has a block on the tall side of spec or a pretty thick head gasket as in my block things were just a little bit to tall, but my block measured up on the short side also, and I'm useing a Fel Pro gasket that's real close to .045. I know Pankey commented on the topic....... more proof that I'm not full of BS and that my numbers above are as legit as any.

He's just trying to cause problems with anything I post, plain and simple
Click to expand...
endak told well in his post what he used. Maybe Brad will post also on the boys who ran a piston to the top of the deck busted everything cause the compression was so high it ran for a little while without a ignition.
 
jd plowboy a good post and it is do able . your flat top piston being .400 below the deck has a volume of 5.3 cubic inches or 86cc .
 

and that's why I trimmed things out and decompressed it to 11.25 to 1 for a nice well rounded engine.... go do some math, but a .045 head gasket, total of 88CC piston volume, cylinder head valves and plug pocket add up to just a few CC of positive displacement, roughly 3-5 total. 4.125 bore and a 4.5 stroke with the piston comeing about .010 out of the block....... it all makes out for real close to 11.25 to 1

although at first you say that I'm full of BS and lying, now your story is different.....
 
Regardless,

People have been using 3" MW pistons in 4.5 stroke motors with stock rods for years. I put one together a long time ago with tall MW"s, 70cc dishes with the point milled out, and a little cut off the top. I think it was like .1 under the deck. I really dont remember, but I DO remember that it was bout 13 and no worse than 13.5 to 1.

As far as pistons breaking, I even cut off most of the skirt, till is was about .25 below the bottom of the pin boss. That motor must have umpteen million hooks on it now.

I dont think it would take sh*t to make an MW piston 85 cc"s. Just a little "outside the box" thought. I bet the point in the MW is 6 - 8 cc"s.

Bottom line is, there are several tractors up here running that tall dish piston (untouched STOCK piston) 70 cc"s and stock rods in their 240 motor in the 14-15 to 1 area. Most run pretty well, although I think the effects of compression is overrated.

Howabout this; 240 cube motor, stock head gasket, with the new clevite 35cc dish slugs on Leroi rods and at about .030 - .020 under the deck. totally diesel compression. The piston came up so far,that the valves would hit. The piston had to be cut out in the mill quite a bit. It runs well, too after ALOT of tuning. And as far as the motor running with no ignition, all you have to do (with proper gov and throttle linkage) is pull the throttle back on an allis. That little piece in the gov with force the throttle shut. No air, no fuel, no runny. No BS.

I thought in a fantasy land compression ruled!? Now Im just confused....
 
(quoted from post at 12:01:00 04/22/11) Regardless,

People have been using 3" MW pistons in 4.5 stroke motors with stock rods for years. I put one together a long time ago with tall MW"s, 70cc dishes with the point milled out, and a little cut off the top. I think it was like .1 under the deck. I really dont remember, but I DO remember that it was bout 13 and no worse than 13.5 to 1.

As far as pistons breaking, I even cut off most of the skirt, till is was about .25 below the bottom of the pin boss. That motor must have umpteen million hooks on it now.

I dont think it would take sh*t to make an MW piston 85 cc"s. Just a little "outside the box" thought. I bet the point in the MW is 6 - 8 cc"s.

Bottom line is, there are several tractors up here running that tall dish piston (untouched STOCK piston) 70 cc"s and stock rods in their 240 motor in the 14-15 to 1 area. Most run pretty well, although I think the effects of compression is overrated.

Howabout this; 240 cube motor, stock head gasket, with the new clevite 35cc dish slugs on Leroi rods and at about .030 - .020 under the deck. totally diesel compression. The piston came up so far,that the valves would hit. The piston had to be cut out in the mill quite a bit. It runs well, too after ALOT of tuning. And as far as the motor running with no ignition, all you have to do (with proper gov and throttle linkage) is pull the throttle back on an allis. That little piece in the gov with force the throttle shut. No air, no fuel, no runny. No BS.

I thought in a fantasy land compression ruled!? Now Im just confused....
Click to expand...
COMPRESSION does rule untill you go over 17.1 . Yours are .100 under the deck Bs50 is .010 above deck a big difference . Kents is .275 below deck for 53 cc . plowboys is .400 below the deck for 86cc. a cast piston with a thin top at 15.1 doesnt last long thats why they make forged pistons. diesel one with 15.1 compression from the glow of a hot exhaust valve and she will split open. no bs. no confussion for men maybe a little for kids just starting out.
 
(quoted from post at 12:51:05 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 12:01:00 04/22/11) Regardless,

People have been using 3" MW pistons in 4.5 stroke motors with stock rods for years. I put one together a long time ago with tall MW"s, 70cc dishes with the point milled out, and a little cut off the top. I think it was like .1 under the deck. I really dont remember, but I DO remember that it was bout 13 and no worse than 13.5 to 1.

As far as pistons breaking, I even cut off most of the skirt, till is was about .25 below the bottom of the pin boss. That motor must have umpteen million hooks on it now.

I dont think it would take sh*t to make an MW piston 85 cc"s. Just a little "outside the box" thought. I bet the point in the MW is 6 - 8 cc"s.

Bottom line is, there are several tractors up here running that tall dish piston (untouched STOCK piston) 70 cc"s and stock rods in their 240 motor in the 14-15 to 1 area. Most run pretty well, although I think the effects of compression is overrated.

Howabout this; 240 cube motor, stock head gasket, with the new clevite 35cc dish slugs on Leroi rods and at about .030 - .020 under the deck. totally diesel compression. The piston came up so far,that the valves would hit. The piston had to be cut out in the mill quite a bit. It runs well, too after ALOT of tuning. And as far as the motor running with no ignition, all you have to do (with proper gov and throttle linkage) is pull the throttle back on an allis. That little piece in the gov with force the throttle shut. No air, no fuel, no runny. No BS.

I thought in a fantasy land compression ruled!? Now Im just confused....
Click to expand...
COMPRESSION does rule untill you go over 17.1 . Yours are .100 under the deck Bs50 is .010 above deck a big difference . Kents is .275 below deck for 53 cc . plowboys is .400 below the deck for 86cc. a cast piston with a thin top at 15.1 doesnt last long thats why they make forged pistons. diesel one with 15.1 compression from the glow of a hot exhaust valve and she will split open. no bs. no confussion for men maybe a little for kids just starting out.
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PS Unstylish a 3 inch piston with 70 cc dish plus 7.5 inch rod is 10.5 inches 1/2 of a 4.5 stroke is 2.250= 12.750-12.656 is .094 above the deck subtract.042 crush of a head gasket and its .052 thousandth above the deck smacking the head as well as valves . if it would run with the piston smaking the head and no room for thermal growth the compression ratio would be 17.9.1 probably less than that due to such a deep dish would have the first compression ring considerably lower on the piston than that of a flat top. if the piston was a 2.9 height it would be .048 below the deck without the gasket or .090 with it and would not hit the head or the valves due to the dish depth.
 

so my 2.94 number that sticks in my mind is probably correct, that makes for 12.69 height and I had to trim just a bit.......though I can't recall if it was as little as .010 or as much as .060 but it was somewhere in that area, you can still make out the little arrow on top of the M&W piston. As I stated before I don't rember exactly what the AP46 piston is, 2.9-3" but the 2.94 really seams to be it. My block measured 12.63.

My numbers really do add up, no BS here, just the truth with numbers to back it up.....
 
(quoted from post at 13:38:21 04/22/11)
so my 2.94 number that sticks in my mind is probably correct, that makes for 12.69 height and I had to trim just a bit.......though I can't recall if it was as little as .010 or as much as .060 but it was somewhere in that area, you can still make out the little arrow on top of the M&W piston. As I stated before I don't rember exactly what the AP46 piston is, 2.9-3" but the 2.94 really seams to be it. My block measured 12.63.

My numbers really do add up, no BS here, just the truth with numbers to back it up.....
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a .390 to.400 thousadths deep dish for 70 ccs in the piston is still unbelievable .if so its a bad engineered set of pistons from the get go.
 

why don't you get yourself an M&W and measure it up for sure, the dish is even deeper than those numbers. Unstylish has a few sets around there I know, I traded him some of my junk for some of his junk last fall.

You do not know what you are talking about, you don't have an M&W to measure, my story has not changed, and won't because the numbers and dimensions are legit. Maybe not exact as I'm going from memory but they are pretty dang close. But yet you think I'm full of BS... with legitimate numbers and dimensions form parts that are easy to obtain and measure.

And the Pankey saga continues. Who would have thought that I could explain the same thing a half dozen times. You must be a union man.
 
(quoted from post at 15:16:04 04/22/11)
why don't you get yourself an M&W and measure it up for sure, the dish is even deeper than those numbers. Unstylish has a few sets around there I know, I traded him some of my junk for some of his junk last fall.

You do not know what you are talking about, you don't have an M&W to measure, my story has not changed, and won't because the numbers and dimensions are legit. Maybe not exact as I'm going from memory but they are pretty dang close. But yet you think I'm full of BS... with legitimate numbers and dimensions form parts that are easy to obtain and measure.

And the Pankey saga continues. Who would have thought that I could explain the same thing a half dozen times. You must be a union man.
Click to expand...
Going to but I can only find sp46 or sp48 cant find those ap associated press ones you describe. sp46 m&w came with a 7.2 compression ratio if the dish is 70 ccs cant argue that not certain just sounds to much the compression height cant be above 2.875 unless a error accurs when measured. dang close just dont cut it when prescision measuring for a machinist to be of union skill. just got off the phone with a retired union machinist said he built his first allis engine in 1990 with sp46 pistons milled .300 off them to get them below the deck enough for a 11.5 .1 comp ratio and your still .010 above the block. are you ceratin or just dang close?
 
(quoted from post at 01:22:28 04/23/11)
(quoted from post at 15:16:04 04/22/11)
why don't you get yourself an M&W and measure it up for sure, the dish is even deeper than those numbers. Unstylish has a few sets around there I know, I traded him some of my junk for some of his junk last fall.

You do not know what you are talking about, you don't have an M&W to measure, my story has not changed, and won't because the numbers and dimensions are legit. Maybe not exact as I'm going from memory but they are pretty dang close. But yet you think I'm full of BS... with legitimate numbers and dimensions form parts that are easy to obtain and measure.

And the Pankey saga continues. Who would have thought that I could explain the same thing a half dozen times. You must be a union man.
Click to expand...
Going to but I can only find sp46 or sp48 cant find those ap associated press ones you describe. sp46 m&w came with a 7.2 compression ratio if the dish is 70 ccs cant argue that not certain just sounds to much the compression height cant be above 2.875 unless a error accurs when measured. dang close just dont cut it when prescision measuring for a machinist to be of union skill. just got off the phone with a retired union machinist said he built his first allis engine in 1990 with sp46 pistons milled .300 off them to get them below the deck enough for a 11.5 .1 comp ratio and your still .010 above the block. are you ceratin or just dang close?
Click to expand...

I'm certain. I left mine at, .010 above and trimmed the bowls out...... as I've explaned many times.

My story isn't changeing because it's true.... yours seams to change from "I'm full of BS" and "can't be so", to "I'd better call someone and actually reserch this a bit because it's correct"


Cutting .300 off the top and nothing else would get a fella in the 11 to 12 comp range I'd imagine. One would have to cut a fair bit off the top to drop the comp as the bowl is so large to start with. Rember I took the heart shape lump out of the bowl also...... it's stated above, and that is worth a fair bit, about 6-8cc, which would equate to a bunch from the top of the piston. I said I also trimmed the bowl out..... which would equate to more from the top of the piston.
 
(quoted from post at 17:22:28 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 15:16:04 04/22/11)
why don't you get yourself an M&W and measure it up for sure, the dish is even deeper than those numbers. Unstylish has a few sets around there I know, I traded him some of my junk for some of his junk last fall.

You do not know what you are talking about, you don't have an M&W to measure, my story has not changed, and won't because the numbers and dimensions are legit. Maybe not exact as I'm going from memory but they are pretty dang close. But yet you think I'm full of BS... with legitimate numbers and dimensions form parts that are easy to obtain and measure.

And the Pankey saga continues. Who would have thought that I could explain the same thing a half dozen times. You must be a union man.
Click to expand...
Going to but I can only find sp46 or sp48 cant find those ap associated press ones you describe. sp46 m&w came with a 7.2 compression ratio if the dish is 70 ccs cant argue that not certain just sounds to much the compression height cant be above 2.875 unless a error accurs when measured. dang close just dont cut it when prescision measuring for a machinist to be of union skill. just got off the phone with a retired union machinist said he built his first allis engine in 1990 with sp46 pistons milled .300 off them to get them below the deck enough for a 11.5 .1 comp ratio and your still .010 above the block. are you ceratin or just dang close?
Click to expand...
BS 50 something to ponder about quench is . It speeds up the flame travel making a quick efficient burn but it appears the flame reaches the quench zone too quickly such that piston to head clearance is still pretty tight and the flame is either extinguished or has excessive heat losses to the metal, thereby reducing the total energy release. Essentially there is improved combustion of the main part of the mixture, coupled with low first ring placement from dished or inverted domes and there weight being heavier than a flat top offsets any gains and inefficient combustion of the last percentage of the mixture makes pretty flames from the raw unburned gas occurring from a hot exhaust pipe.
 

so now I'm right............. and you want to find something else to whine about. I like my quench engine much better than flat to flat.

BS50, sounds like ML Skankey is trash talking again...
 
(quoted from post at 19:09:40 04/22/11)
so now I'm right............. and you want to find something else to whine about. I like my quench engine much better than flat to flat.

BS50, sounds like ML Skankey is trash talking again...
Click to expand...
nope your always wrong. I like short light pistons with the biggest bore short rod with the longest stroke ,cams advanced tight so static comp. ratio stays for the dynamic as well. Greater the displacement the bigger the pump!
 
(quoted from post at 19:18:16 04/22/11) someday you might just get an engine to run long enough to go pull
Click to expand...
I Make yearly appearances your is like a comet shows up on the decades isnt that right by your own account.
pejorative obelisk etymology feminism quench - 3 dictionary results
Quench Definition
Find Definitions For Any Word.Get Your Free Dictionary.com Toolbar.
Dictionary.com

quench   /kwɛntʃ/ Show Spelled
[kwench] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)
1. to slake, satisfy, or allay (thirst, desires, passion, etc.).
2. to put out or extinguish (fire, flames, etc.).
3. to cool suddenly by plunging into a liquid, as in tempering steel by immersion in water.
4. to subdue or destroy; overcome; quell: to quench an uprising.
5. Electronics . to terminate (the flow of electrons in a vacuum tube) by application of a voltage
now my question is since the definition of quench is posted above . why would anyone use the shallow area of the heart shape dish on the piston as the quench pad. Most builders try to smooth out piston tops to reduce hot spots. Most cylinder heads quench pad is designed so the water jacket removes the heat absorbed. I would also think a person who uses combo wrenches as measruring devices would not be concerned with exhaust valve to piston clearance either as a retired union machinist was who remove .300 from the pistons . Then again it could have to do with the altitude in ohio but proably not.
 
(quoted from post at 04:46:28 04/23/11)
(quoted from post at 19:18:16 04/22/11) someday you might just get an engine to run long enough to go pull
Click to expand...
I Make yearly appearances your is like a comet shows up on the decades isnt that right by your own account.
pejorative obelisk etymology feminism quench - 3 dictionary results
Quench Definition
Find Definitions For Any Word.Get Your Free Dictionary.com Toolbar.
Dictionary.com

quench   /kwɛntʃ/ Show Spelled
[kwench] Show IPA

–verb (used with object)
1. to slake, satisfy, or allay (thirst, desires, passion, etc.).
2. to put out or extinguish (fire, flames, etc.).
3. to cool suddenly by plunging into a liquid, as in tempering steel by immersion in water.
4. to subdue or destroy; overcome; quell: to quench an uprising.
5. Electronics . to terminate (the flow of electrons in a vacuum tube) by application of a voltage
now my question is since the definition of quench is posted above . why would anyone use the shallow area of the heart shape dish on the piston as the quench pad. Most builders try to smooth out piston tops to reduce hot spots. Most cylinder heads quench pad is designed so the water jacket removes the heat absorbed. I would also think a person who uses combo wrenches as measruring devices would not be concerned with exhaust valve to piston clearance either as a retired union machinist was who remove .300 from the pistons . Then again it could have to do with the altitude in ohio but proably not.
Click to expand...
AUTOMOTIVE DEFINITION SEE ANY SIMILARITIES AS THE ENGISH DEFINITION.
Quench area
Dictionary of Automotive Terms

A zone in the combustion chamber where the piston at top dead center is very close to the cylinder head . Because the piston and cylinder head is cooler than the unburned part of the fuel-air mixture (i.e., end gas ), they pull the heat from the end gas. Because the end gas is now cooler, detonation is quenched or reduced. However, the process does form unburned hydrocarbons .
 

I'm glad that you need to find something to whine about. First there's no way I could be right, then some reserch and calls to a friend and now you just keep alienating yourself on public forum.

What ever happened to running high gear, spinning the tires at 6000 RPM in 3rd, makeing that video for all of us to see? Or selling the tractor to spend time with the kids? Or just haveing to harden the rods?....... and the Pankey saga continues. Simply jelous of what some dumb farm kids did so long agoe..... Why not go razz someone with a good running Olliver or Farmall?

Happy Easter, I'll be back next week.
 
(quoted from post at 15:20:04 04/23/11)
I'm glad that you need to find something to whine about. First there's no way I could be right, then some reserch and calls to a friend and now you just keep alienating yourself on public forum.

What ever happened to running high gear, spinning the tires at 6000 RPM in 3rd, makeing that video for all of us to see? Or selling the tractor to spend time with the kids? Or just haveing to harden the rods?....... and the Pankey saga continues. Simply jelous of what some dumb farm kids did so long agoe..... Why not go razz someone with a good running Olliver or Farmall?

Happy Easter, I'll be back next week.
Click to expand...
BS 50 the sp-46 has been measured and the dish cc . You keep as others wanting to throwing up my rods bending. I push the envelope and found the weakest link . It is my opinion untill you build a 400 inch engine intead of a 260 inch engine you will never push the envelope far enough from so little a motor to find the weak links. two reasons a person doesnt build a big engine one they dont know how two budget doesnt allow it As usual when I get technical you go to some bs as posted above . Its never been a popularity contest for me wither people like me or not in reply to the allienating. So where you pulling next week with your self claimed good running light class second gear tractor. Awaiting to see it on video at dekalb in the N/a 5800 lbs class. I was pulling 5500 when i broke bent the rod and still brought home the second place trophy. yes rods should have been flamed hardened to a 40 rockwell . A transfer of knowledge from Mack who experienced the same with his turbo 262. I have always told every detail good or bad on builds . I was going to quit and coach the boys in wrestle but now I think I will start repairs so I can pull against you when the decade comes around for you to appear its obvious you need some competition a decade from now the twins wrestling will be ended.
 
good thing I posted up some pictures and gave a detailed description of the work, now you may be able to figure out how to build a good cylinder head to feed an engine.


so the ap46 has been measured ya say, I hope you got accurate measuremtnts that you can trust. I'd hate to post any bad information or get caught at it while claiming someone who actually has measured it and done it is full of BS. Funny how my original post describeing what I did was BS........ and there's no way one could have a bowl volume of a certain amount in another, has to be BS. Then your story changes. Anyone else could have done and several surely have done smething verry similar, but you have no issues with them. I wonder why?
 
(quoted from post at 19:18:46 04/23/11) good thing I posted up some pictures and gave a detailed description of the work, now you may be able to figure out how to build a good cylinder head to feed an engine.


so the ap46 has been measured ya say, I hope you got accurate measuremtnts that you can trust. I'd hate to post any bad information or get caught at it while claiming someone who actually has measured it and done it is full of BS. Funny how my original post describeing what I did was BS........ and there's no way one could have a bowl volume of a certain amount in another, has to be BS. Then your story changes. Anyone else could have done and several surely have done smething verry similar, but you have no issues with them. I wonder why?
Click to expand...
S 50 mystery hasn't changed. second gear pulling light on loose track isn't my cup of tea . if its yours that fine . Your pictures of incomplete engine and heads are just incomplete . your claims on airflow are elaborate but a cut up head can flow on a bench but never hold water,oil and compression or valve guides on a running engine. when ask technical question you reply two dumb farm kids a decade ago. cylinder volume and bowl volume are different even though the compression ratio comes out the same. So i ask again why are you using the shallow part of the heart shape dish as your quench pad ? I would think one would want the heat drawn away from the piston top. since the flat side is the tight area and you made deeper valve reliefs in the dish changing the weight in grams to the valve side how do you keep the extra pressure on the shallow side from rocking the piston away from its crank motion? awaiting a answer besides two dumb farm kids. Or is it something you just didn't think all the way through or didn't understand fully. All those questions goes into the engineered designs for a piston when making a non quench engine into a quench engine such as a mopar made before 69.sp 46 has been measured.
 
Can anyone tell me if compression pressure in PSI can be equated to a certain compression ratio? My newly built engine shows a range of from 181 to 190 PSI on a compression check after break in, and I was wondering about what ratio that would be?

If you need them, the particulars are:
Domed pistons, (the ones from Tisco)
3 7/16 bore
4 1/4 stroke
Farmall 300 gas head

Thanks!
 
(quoted from post at 20:26:24 04/24/11) Can anyone tell me if compression pressure in PSI can be equated to a certain compression ratio? My newly built engine shows a range of from 181 to 190 PSI on a compression check after break in, and I was wondering about what ratio that would be?

If you need them, the particulars are:
Domed pistons, (the ones from Tisco)
3 7/16 bore
4 1/4 stroke
Farmall 300 gas head

Thanks!
Click to expand...
t would be just a guess without knowing the compression height of the piston for the static compression ratio . Then the dynamic which is your 181 to 190 psi would need the intake valve closing abdc and rod length to see if it is below the static comp.ratio.
 

when I cut my valve reliefs, it's a wide slot across the top of the piston, there is a small eyebrow or cresent shaped part on the left side and right side that come up to quench to the head........

On those heads, did I not say that I'm in the process of makeing a guide plate? Reading comprehension my man, reading comprehension.

find something else to be an idiot about this week, don't worry about what I'm doing, have done or am working on. And please get some sleep, you get cranky staying awake all night trash texting.
 
Im looking for two of those M and W pistons if anyone has some for sale contact me at 618 314 2163. Two of mine are cracked from being froze up. I cut .130 off the tops of mine and compression figured around 11.5 to 1.
 
(quoted from post at 06:05:23 04/25/11)
when I cut my valve reliefs, it's a wide slot across the top of the piston, there is a small eyebrow or cresent shaped part on the left side and right side that come up to quench to the head........

On those heads, did I not say that I'm in the process of makeing a guide plate? Reading comprehension my man, reading comprehension.

find something else to be an idiot about this week, don't worry about what I'm doing, have done or am working on. And please get some sleep, you get cranky staying awake all night trash texting.
Click to expand...
YPICAL NO ANSWERE ON QUENCH OR ANYTHING ELSE.
 
(quoted from post at 01:11:20 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11)
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
Click to expand...

some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
Click to expand...
BS all the way
Click to expand...

so if it was BS all the way, now others have used identical parts and done something similar, it makes your BS claim pretty weak........ just sayin next time you wish to use personal issues to try and bash someone, have correct information, or you'll just get caught lying again. Have soe respect for others and yourself.......

Now you want me to explain quench? Go look it up on the internet, maybe you can start a topic and use lots of quotes. I'm quite certain that no one will care.

I"m terrably sorry to those of you who have wasted time reading, I've been amuseing myself but it has been fun. Hopefully you've been amused also.

Now back to the real work that pays the bills.
 
(quoted from post at 09:09:40 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 01:11:20 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11)
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
Click to expand...

some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
Click to expand...
BS all the way
Click to expand...

so if it was BS all the way, now others have used identical parts and done something similar, it makes your BS claim pretty weak........ just sayin next time you wish to use personal issues to try and bash someone, have correct information, or you'll just get caught lying again. Have soe respect for others and yourself.......

Now you want me to explain quench? Go look it up on the internet, maybe you can start a topic and use lots of quotes. I'm quite certain that no one will care.

I"m terrably sorry to those of you who have wasted time reading, I've been amuseing myself but it has been fun. Hopefully you've been amused also.

Now back to the real work that pays the bills.[/quot You dont seam to comprehend above deck vs below deck do you or quench for that matter
Click to expand...
 

the whole above deck, head gasket relatioship was explaned earlier, a couple pages agoe

Why did Mike Bock get by saying he used the pistons also.......... but trimmed them? Though he just trimmed more off the top than I did. I did let him know where to find a couple more pistons as he needed a few and during the conversation, he said that his came up out of the block also and they trimmed them down.

I really don't have any more time to explain basic math or any other basic skills. They teach them in grade school if you're interested.
 
(quoted from post at 13:09:20 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 20:26:24 04/24/11) Can anyone tell me if compression pressure in PSI can be equated to a certain compression ratio? My newly built engine shows a range of from 181 to 190 PSI on a compression check after break in, and I was wondering about what ratio that would be?

If you need them, the particulars are:
Domed pistons, (the ones from Tisco)
3 7/16 bore
4 1/4 stroke
Farmall 300 gas head

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It would be just a guess without knowing the compression height of the piston for the static compression ratio . Then the dynamic which is your 181 to 190 psi would need the intake valve closing abdc and rod length to see if it is below the static comp.ratio.
Click to expand...

All those things are stock Farmall H, with the pistons installed at zero deck height, and only the domes sticking up out of the block, the intake valve closes 10 degrees abdc according to the grinder's card.
 
(quoted from post at 10:05:43 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 13:09:20 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 20:26:24 04/24/11) Can anyone tell me if compression pressure in PSI can be equated to a certain compression ratio? My newly built engine shows a range of from 181 to 190 PSI on a compression check after break in, and I was wondering about what ratio that would be?

If you need them, the particulars are:
Domed pistons, (the ones from Tisco)
3 7/16 bore
4 1/4 stroke
Farmall 300 gas head

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It would be just a guess without knowing the compression height of the piston for the static compression ratio . Then the dynamic which is your 181 to 190 psi would need the intake valve closing abdc and rod length to see if it is below the static comp.ratio.
Click to expand...

All those things are stock Farmall H, with the pistons installed at zero deck height, and only the domes sticking up out of the block, the intake valve closes 10 degrees abdc according to the grinder's card.
Click to expand...
Getting real close to being able to figure it . Just need the cc of the combustion chamber and the negative cc,s of the dome. the intake closing and the rod length of 8 inches will knock the dynamic down .2 lower than the static.
 
(quoted from post at 20:15:57 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 10:05:43 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 13:09:20 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 20:26:24 04/24/11) Can anyone tell me if compression pressure in PSI can be equated to a certain compression ratio? My newly built engine shows a range of from 181 to 190 PSI on a compression check after break in, and I was wondering about what ratio that would be?

If you need them, the particulars are:
Domed pistons, (the ones from Tisco)
3 7/16 bore
4 1/4 stroke
Farmall 300 gas head

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It would be just a guess without knowing the compression height of the piston for the static compression ratio . Then the dynamic which is your 181 to 190 psi would need the intake valve closing abdc and rod length to see if it is below the static comp.ratio.
Click to expand...

All those things are stock Farmall H, with the pistons installed at zero deck height, and only the domes sticking up out of the block, the intake valve closes 10 degrees abdc according to the grinder's card.
Click to expand...

Getting real close to being able to figure it . Just need the cc of the combustion chamber and the negative cc,s of the dome. the intake closing and the rod length of 8 inches will knock the dynamic down .2 lower than the static.
Click to expand...

If I had those measurements, I could figure it myself, but I do not, hence the original question, converting PSI readings to an estimate of compression ratio.
 
(quoted from post at 23:37:03 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 20:15:57 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 10:05:43 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 13:09:20 04/25/11)
(quoted from post at 20:26:24 04/24/11) Can anyone tell me if compression pressure in PSI can be equated to a certain compression ratio? My newly built engine shows a range of from 181 to 190 PSI on a compression check after break in, and I was wondering about what ratio that would be?

If you need them, the particulars are:
Domed pistons, (the ones from Tisco)
3 7/16 bore
4 1/4 stroke
Farmall 300 gas head

Thanks!
Click to expand...

It would be just a guess without knowing the compression height of the piston for the static compression ratio . Then the dynamic which is your 181 to 190 psi would need the intake valve closing abdc and rod length to see if it is below the static comp.ratio.
Click to expand...

All those things are stock Farmall H, with the pistons installed at zero deck height, and only the domes sticking up out of the block, the intake valve closes 10 degrees abdc according to the grinder's card.
Click to expand...

Getting real close to being able to figure it . Just need the cc of the combustion chamber and the negative cc,s of the dome. the intake closing and the rod length of 8 inches will knock the dynamic down .2 lower than the static.
Click to expand...

If I had those measurements, I could figure it myself, but I do not, hence the original question, converting PSI readings to an estimate of compression ratio.
Click to expand...
It doesnt look as of anyone who knows is going to tell either but then again if posted as a new post in form of a question might help get some of the farmall in the know guys to answere.
 
In response to the CR for an 1/8" overbore of a WD45/D17. If you can provide me the compression ratio listed in the manual for the standard engine the new compression ratio for the overbore can be calculated based on the original ratio.
 
(quoted from post at 01:11:20 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11)
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
Click to expand...

some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
Click to expand...
BS all the way
Click to expand...

Well fortunatly I blew water out the radiator testing the engine, so when the head was off I took a few pictures of the pistons, looks exactly like what I tried to explain to Pankey for a few days, others have done similar but of course if I do it than it has to be BS........ or just my internet stalker trying to cause issues. You can still see the original arrow cast in the top of the pistons, I had to trim them a bit to get them to a .010 popup.
929.jpg
930.jpg
 
(quoted from post at 18:01:26 05/06/11)
(quoted from post at 01:11:20 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11)
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
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some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
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BS all the way
Click to expand...

Well fortunatly I blew water out the radiator testing the engine, so when the head was off I took a few pictures of the pistons, looks exactly like what I tried to explain to Pankey for a few days, others have done similar but of course if I do it than it has to be BS........ or just my internet stalker trying to cause issues. You can still see the original arrow cast in the top of the pistons, I had to trim them a bit to get them to a .010 popup.
929.jpg
930.jpg
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aybe the way you take pictures but i see the piston flush or slightly below the deck and not .010 above .
 
(quoted from post at 18:30:16 05/06/11)
(quoted from post at 18:01:26 05/06/11)
(quoted from post at 01:11:20 04/22/11)
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11)
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?
Click to expand...

some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
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BS all the way
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Well fortunatly I blew water out the radiator testing the engine, so when the head was off I took a few pictures of the pistons, looks exactly like what I tried to explain to Pankey for a few days, others have done similar but of course if I do it than it has to be BS........ or just my internet stalker trying to cause issues. You can still see the original arrow cast in the top of the pistons, I had to trim them a bit to get them to a .010 popup.
929.jpg
930.jpg
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aybe the way you take pictures but i see the piston flush or slightly below the deck and not .010 above .
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I cant seam to find the quench pad either. can you point it out. Sorry to here your having problems keeping water in it but you know what they say broken is broken.
 
they come out of the block just fine, like I said. You just got caught lying.........and being an idiot. Everything looks and is exactly like my original post, you just made 4 pages of crap about.

Go find someone else, and something else to whine about I've got work to do.
 
(quoted from post at 19:07:04 05/06/11) they come out of the block just fine, like I said. You just got caught lying.........and being an idiot. Everything looks and is exactly like my original post, you just made 4 pages of crap about.

Go find someone else, and something else to whine about I've got work to do.
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BS you are the lying fellow the picture shows that they are not above the deck you left a straight edge and dial caliper laying on the block. I also doubt those pistons will hold 80cc also .You may have missed calculated the compression ratio and that could be the reason you cant keep a head gasket on it but then again the deck doesn't look smooth either.no carbon or even brown tint to show how the fuel is moving across the piston, wonder as to even if it was running either.
 
(quoted from post at 19:32:20 05/06/11)
(quoted from post at 19:07:04 05/06/11) they come out of the block just fine, like I said. You just got caught lying.........and being an idiot. Everything looks and is exactly like my original post, you just made 4 pages of crap about.

Go find someone else, and something else to whine about I've got work to do.
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BS you are the lying fellow the picture shows that they are not above the deck you left a straight edge and dial caliper laying on the block. I also doubt those pistons will hold 80cc also .You may have missed calculated the compression ratio and that could be the reason you cant keep a head gasket on it but then again the deck doesn't look smooth either.no carbon or even brown tint to show how the fuel is moving across the piston, wonder as to even if it was running either.
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picture of one at 15.1.1 cr
09240916201.jpg
 
when I roll the engine over, the straight edge will rise off the top of the block about .010........ piston comes out of the deck, simple math for simple minds I suppose.

Block is simply a low houred Gleaner E engine with new sleves, and old set of trimmed up M&W's. It's just fine, head gasket is just fine, I never said it blew did I?. It runs pretty good for an easy bolt togather project, around 230 PSI on a pretty fresh engine, and that jives pretty good with the cam timeing and static compression ratio.

The caliper, and straight edge was used to measure the depth of the bowl in the piston. Piston bowl is tapered as is the bottom, but some rough measurements for your simple mind to calculate CC is .over .6 deep, 3.5 at top in diameter, closer to 3" at bottom or about 90cc, but like I say it's tapered and impossiable to measure, so one can only accuratly CC it.

Anyone with more than a 3rd grade education can see, anyone with a bit more education than that can do some simple math.



So I've posted descriptions, pictures, etc of the engine. If you can't understand any of it, that's just to bad. I've posted pictures of my cylinder heads for my other engine, decriptions of the work, and what I've used in other threads, again you fail to understand or be willing to actually do any work.

I would love to see some pictures and detailed descriptions from the Pankey machine.......... that must be one heck of a cylinder head, manifold and carb to be able to claim the 5500 RPM, a few cubes shy of 440 and spinning the tires in 3rd gear when the governer breaks or it's quite a line of BS. Maybe the clutch was in? Or maybe it's all just from fantasy land?
 
(quoted from post at 11:38:03 05/07/11) when I roll the engine over, the straight edge will rise off the top of the block about .010........ piston comes out of the deck, simple math for simple minds I suppose.

Block is simply a low houred Gleaner E engine with new sleeves, and old set of trimmed up M&W's. It's just fine, head gasket is just fine, I never said it blew did I?. It runs pretty good for an easy bolt together project, around 230 PSI on a pretty fresh engine, and that jives pretty good with the cam timing and static compression ratio.

The caliper, and straight edge was used to measure the depth of the bowl in the piston. Piston bowl is tapered as is the bottom, but some rough measurements for your simple mind to calculate CC is .over .6 deep, 3.5 at top in diameter, closer to 3" at bottom or about 90cc, but like I say it's tapered and impossible to measure, so one can only accurately CC it.

Anyone with more than a 3rd grade education can see, anyone with a bit more education than that can do some simple math.



So I've posted descriptions, pictures, etc of the engine. If you can't understand any of it, that's just to bad. I've posted pictures of my cylinder heads for my other engine, description of the work, and what I've used in other threads, again you fail to understand or be willing to actually do any work.

I would love to see some pictures and detailed descriptions from the Pankey machine.......... that must be one heck of a cylinder head, manifold and carb to be able to claim the 5500 RPM, a few cubes shy of 440 and spinning the tires in 3rd gear when the governor breaks or it's quite a line of BS. Maybe the clutch was in? Or maybe it's all just from fantasy land?
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BS50 it done what it done and brought the trophy home to. pistons are up in the picture simple observation no math required fantasy land is in wi. if you learned how to build a big engine you would know it would and wouldn't fool with a little engine ever again. But then again you cant keep the water in the little ones or they would be no reason to remove the head if it was just a radiator problem. Everyone build them like that and the head will be trained to jump off when you walk by it or the stud threads will be shallow from all the times the gasket gets replaced if it dont get trained from repetition.
 

let me point out a couple things here,

You claim to have measured a piston

You claim that there is no way it comes out of the block

You claim that there is no way it could hold the 88 cc

THen your story changes that they could come out of the block after a phone call to a friend.......

Now if you actually had one and measured it, you would have found that it holds about 70cc and that there is a big lump in the bowl. You'd also be smart enough to see that there is no lump in the pistons in the picture. How much volume is that lump worth? 6-8CC but that's just a guess. Then you would also be able to see that the sides of the bowl have been trimmed and that the floor of the dish is also trimmed. How much volume was trimmed out? Well enough that with a piece of plexiglas over them and properly CC'd the bowls came out to 82CC, then cut some valve reliefs in for a little more relief. Again my math, story and pictures add up pretty tight.

Reading comprehension and math skills will help you to understand.
 
(quoted from post at 18:59:38 05/07/11)
let me point out a couple things here,

You claim to have measured a piston

You claim that there is no way it comes out of the block

You claim that there is no way it could hold the 88 cc

THen your story changes that they could come out of the block after a phone call to a friend.......

Now if you actually had one and measured it, you would have found that it holds about 70cc and that there is a big lump in the bowl. You'd also be smart enough to see that there is no lump in the pistons in the picture. How much volume is that lump worth? 6-8CC but that's just a guess. Then you would also be able to see that the sides of the bowl have been trimmed and that the floor of the dish is also trimmed. How much volume was trimmed out? Well enough that with a piece of plexiglas over them and properly CC'd the bowls came out to 82CC, then cut some valve reliefs in for a little more relief. Again my math, story and pictures add up pretty tight.

Reading comprehension and math skills will help you to understand.
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YOU NEED TO TALK TO AC they hold more than 70 ccs but if you do the math wich i have and you can reread what i posted in this post above about how deep a area with a diameter of 4 .125 needs in depth to hold a volume of 82ccs. my stuff pretty tight laced your head gasket is blown.
 


so now they hold more than you said they did? But with some machine work, there's no way mine hold even more than that is there.

You just keep digging a hole

BTW, my gasket is just fine...., it just burped some water out under high load but we wanted to check for sure, it really only takes a few minutes to pop the head off and back on, set things and maybe 30-45 mintues total............wait a minute didn't you post above that the engine hadn't been ran? Something about fuel moveing across the piston and no carbon? How could a gasket blow if it hasn't ran?

It's amaxeing what a simple squirt of brakewash and a few rags can clean up isn't it.

Keep on trying........more Pankey saga, though I've got to leave and go take over running one of the plows for the night, it's been fun, but I've got work to get done.
 
(quoted from post at 19:25:31 05/07/11)

so now they hold more than you said they did? But with some machine work, there's no way mine hold even more than that is there.

You just keep digging a hole

BTW, my gasket is just fine...., it just burped some water out under high load but we wanted to check for sure, it really only takes a few minutes to pop the head off and back on, set things and maybe 30-45 mintues total............wait a minute didn't you post above that the engine hadn't been ran? Something about fuel moveing across the piston and no carbon? How could a gasket blow if it hasn't ran?

It's amaxeing what a simple squirt of brakewash and a few rags can clean up isn't it.

Keep on trying........more Pankey saga, though I've got to leave and go take over running one of the plows for the night, it's been fun, but I've got work to get done.
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r water in the cylinder your so full of BS thats why your BS50 t.
 
ya see you've dug yourself in a rut, above you say that there is more than the 70cc volume in the original piston. That would mean that the compression height would then have to be taller in order to maintain the same stock compression..........but you have also said that there is no way that they could come out of the block, so it can't be taller than what I said it was, or you'd be contradicting yourself. You originally said that there is no way the piston could have that large of a bowl in it.

so now you're contradicting yourself.......... hey that's a familular phrase , or maybe you don't rember the trash texting to a friend of mine that you were up to a while back.

It's a simple case of that numbers don't lie and liers make numbers, you are only trying to make up to many things and keep running over yourself doing so and changeing stories. One day it's to short, one day the bowl can't hold that much volume, and now it holds even more than it never could have before. Makes sense if you don't think about it....

Actually get a part and measure it, rather than go on speculation, that way you'll have honest numbers and won't feel the need to call BS when I post something.

I've spent more time explaning the same thing to you twenty times than I did putting the engine togather. No wonder you don't have anything running, to busy makeing up crap and trying to cover your tracks, or trying to razz this person or that person. It's to bad but somebody has to be the village idiot, and you've got the time to fill the spot.
 
(quoted from post at 23:47:38 05/07/11) ya see you've dug yourself in a rut, above you say that there is more than the 70cc volume in the original piston. That would mean that the compression height would then have to be taller in order to maintain the same stock compression..........but you have also said that there is no way that they could come out of the block, so it can't be taller than what I said it was, or you'd be contradicting yourself. You originally said that there is no way the piston could have that large of a bowl in it.

so now you're contradicting yourself.......... hey that's a familular phrase , or maybe you don't rember the trash texting to a friend of mine that you were up to a while back.

It's a simple case of that numbers don't lie and liers make numbers, you are only trying to make up to many things and keep running over yourself doing so and changeing stories. One day it's to short, one day the bowl can't hold that much volume, and now it holds even more than it never could have before. Makes sense if you don't think about it....

Actually get a part and measure it, rather than go on speculation, that way you'll have honest numbers and won't feel the need to call BS when I post something.

I've spent more time explaning the same thing to you twenty times than I did putting the engine togather. No wonder you don't have anything running, to busy makeing up crap and trying to cover your tracks, or trying to razz this person or that person. It's to bad but somebody has to be the village idiot, and you've got the time to fill the spot.
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BS 50 go fix the head gasket . Dont answere the no quench quetsion dont answere any question just keep rambling on like a fellow with a blown head gasket stuck in the rut cause he cant keep pace with the big ci motor builders.
 
(quoted from post at 07:02:38 05/08/11)
(quoted from post at 23:47:38 05/07/11) ya see you've dug yourself in a rut, above you say that there is more than the 70cc volume in the original piston. That would mean that the compression height would then have to be taller in order to maintain the same stock compression..........but you have also said that there is no way that they could come out of the block, so it can't be taller than what I said it was, or you'd be contradicting yourself. You originally said that there is no way the piston could have that large of a bowl in it.

so now you're contradicting yourself.......... hey that's a familular phrase , or maybe you don't rember the trash texting to a friend of mine that you were up to a while back.

It's a simple case of that numbers don't lie and liers make numbers, you are only trying to make up to many things and keep running over yourself doing so and changeing stories. One day it's to short, one day the bowl can't hold that much volume, and now it holds even more than it never could have before. Makes sense if you don't think about it....

Actually get a part and measure it, rather than go on speculation, that way you'll have honest numbers and won't feel the need to call BS when I post something.

I've spent more time explaning the same thing to you twenty times than I did putting the engine togather. No wonder you don't have anything running, to busy makeing up crap and trying to cover your tracks, or trying to razz this person or that person. It's to bad but somebody has to be the village idiot, and you've got the time to fill the spot.
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BS 50 go fix the head gasket . Dont answere the no quench quetsion dont answere any question just keep rambling on like a fellow with a blown head gasket stuck in the rut cause he cant keep pace with the big ci motor builders.
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Lets examine the picture. both pistons are below the deck . If the pistons arent parked at tdc wich i think they are and it would come up .010 above the deck . the ledge is on the spark plug side if anything impeding spark travel . quench its not pushing anything toward the plug . Now keep ushing engineering terms you dont understand o be ahead of the rest of the builders then post pics showing your full of bs .
 

got another question, you said something about kendak's numbers and mine not jiveing, so if you have actually done some measureing you'd beleve both sets of numbers, just got them in different ways was all.

Keep on trying, the thing about the truth is that there is alwayse evidence. The thing about lying like you are is you keep on changeing stories and whining.......

back to work, but I wonder what the next episode of the Pankey saga will be.

BTW, are you to blind to see that the pistons are above the deck, I know .010 is impossiable to see in the pictures, and poor picturres with an old camera. Look at the original arrow cast in the pistons and you can see that some was machined off the top to get the .010 popup.......

keep on digging buddy

Why don't you post your numbers from your measured piston? Why in stock form then we could all figure the CR togather, though in stock form they are just shy of 8 to 1......... though then those numbers wouldn't jive to well with your earlier stories now would it, and you'd catch yourslef makeing up BS......... dang I'm haveing fun and amuseing myself. Got to run for now though.
 

they alwayse say to "keep your powder dry"....... we've got a rain day today and I was planning to work on the tractor just a little bit. I'd sure hate to take a little time and snap a few pictures across the top of the block with that straight edge across the top of the piston and an air gap under the straight edge to block deck......, now it would be impossiable to tell if the air gap is say .005 or .015 in the picture, but it would prove a point now wouldn't it?

So now you can say I'm full of BS but you can't prove it...... I happen to go with pictures, numbers and evidence. That's just the way the world goes round I guess.

I'll snap a few photos and save them, just incase.
 
(quoted from post at 08:25:28 05/09/11)
they alwayse say to "keep your powder dry"....... we've got a rain day today and I was planning to work on the tractor just a little bit. I'd sure hate to take a little time and snap a few pictures across the top of the block with that straight edge across the top of the piston and an air gap under the straight edge to block deck......, now it would be impossiable to tell if the air gap is say .005 or .015 in the picture, but it would prove a point now wouldn't it?

So now you can say I'm full of BS but you can't prove it...... I happen to go with pictures, numbers and evidence. That's just the way the world goes round I guess.

I'll snap a few photos and save them, just incase.
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QUENCH IS BS
 
(quoted from post at 12:39:02 05/09/11)
(quoted from post at 08:25:28 05/09/11)
they alwayse say to "keep your powder dry"....... we've got a rain day today and I was planning to work on the tractor just a little bit. I'd sure hate to take a little time and snap a few pictures across the top of the block with that straight edge across the top of the piston and an air gap under the straight edge to block deck......, now it would be impossiable to tell if the air gap is say .005 or .015 in the picture, but it would prove a point now wouldn't it?

So now you can say I'm full of BS but you can't prove it...... I happen to go with pictures, numbers and evidence. That's just the way the world goes round I guess.

I'll snap a few photos and save them, just incase.
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QUENCH IS BS
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???
 
so if quench is BS, then if the pistons come out of the block .010, and say the compressed head gasket is .045 thick, that gives those old cast pistons .035 clearance from the head. I suppose I could have ran them closer, but those old cast pistons are pretty tall and that leaves a lot of expansion.

It's all just simple math

Figure out what quench is and then let all the rest of us know........ but it's generally figured in the .030 to .040 range.

Quench isn't BS, but Pankey if full of it.
 
(quoted from post at 11:07:08 05/09/11) so if quench is BS, then if the pistons come out of the block .010, and say the compressed head gasket is .045 thick, that gives those old cast pistons .035 clearance from the head. I suppose I could have ran them closer, but those old cast pistons are pretty tall and that leaves a lot of expansion.

It's all just simple math

Figure out what quench is and then let all the rest of us know........ but it's generally figured in the .030 to .040 range.

Quench isn't BS, but Pankey if full of it.
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BUICK AND DEERE the quench for wi 50s valve in head with no combustion chamber in the head using adished piston with a lip around its outside ledge is bs . I agree there is something to quench on a wedge design combustion chamber head.
 

so now the pistons really do come out .010, but earlier you said that is was not possiable, also the piston bowl volume was not possiable. But now it is? I thought you claimed that there was no way it could be so.......

Other engines quench in the piston bowl also, there's plenty of them running up and down the roads every day and in the fields. I'm sure the good people at Deere, Cat, Cummins, GM, etc would love to hear your inputs on how they are also full of BS.

ya got caught lying, you've tried to razz me for months and have personal issues with anything I happen to do or post, so when I simply replied to a question back in the verry beginning of this thread, you stirred the pot and now ya got caught. Rember some pictures I posted of some of my equipment, you started on a rant about some cylinder head totally unrelated to the topic at hand. Seams like a common occurance on the forum, Pankey trying to argue, but like alwayse you can't argue with Pankey, you can just allow him to loose.
 
(quoted from post at 11:12:09 05/09/11)
(quoted from post at 11:07:08 05/09/11) so if quench is BS, then if the pistons come out of the block .010, and say the compressed head gasket is .045 thick, that gives those old cast pistons .035 clearance from the head. I suppose I could have ran them closer, but those old cast pistons are pretty tall and that leaves a lot of expansion.

It's all just simple math

Figure out what quench is and then let all the rest of us know........ but it's generally figured in the .030 to .040 range.

Quench isn't BS, but Pankey if full of it.
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BUICK AND DEERE the quench for wi 50s valve in head with no combustion chamber in the head using adished piston with a lip around its outside ledge is bs . I agree there is something to quench on a wedge design combustion chamber head.
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When Bs 50 figures out how to get the most effective squish action with the least amount of quench action I will listen.
 

once again,
you don't really have anything to go on, you don't have any numbers or evidence, but you do have some empty comments...........

at least now you have seen that your original claims of this not measureing up to that, really are bogus.

I suppose there is better designs to get the quench, but I had an old set of M&W's to work with, did the best I could with them. If I wanted something better, I'd use some custom parts, but I really just set out for a cheap engine to have a little fun with. It's been more fun watching you make yourself an idiot though.

I'd better get to work, weather is nice again and the dozer needs to get pushing. I suppose there's something wrong with the Cummins in it also, there really isn't but if it's mine than there must be.
 
(quoted from post at 12:20:25 05/09/11)
once again,
you don't really have anything to go on, you don't have any numbers or evidence, but you do have some empty comments...........

at least now you have seen that your original claims of this not measureing up to that, really are bogus.

I suppose there is better designs to get the quench, but I had an old set of M&W's to work with, did the best I could with them. If I wanted something better, I'd use some custom parts, but I really just set out for a cheap engine to have a little fun with. It's been more fun watching you make yourself an idiot though.

I'd better get to work, weather is nice again and the dozer needs to get pushing. I suppose there's something wrong with the Cummins in it also, there really isn't but if it's mine than there must be.
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nce again your stuck on one item I posted your entire post was BS . Once again you do not answere why 82 cc chamber dish piston is a performance advantage over a 82 cc chamber utilizing a flat top . You wanted at first to say it was due to quench but you dont want to focus in on that do you ? Cause it show that you are a nitwit The first original post is totally Bs not by one item but the total concept behind all the work done having a advantage over another . first initial reply to your post I know its to complicated for you to review back to page 1.
wi50 wrote:
(quoted from post at 12:31:21 04/21/11) north puller wrote:
(quoted from post at 18:03:33 04/21/11) Wi50, what do you get for compression ratio when you put a set of "high compression, 4 1/8" overbore" pistons for a WD into a WD45? Assuming stock WD45 crank, rods, head, and head gasket?


some guys claim 9 to 1

all I can say is measure the piston compression height, center of pin to top of piston and then one can figure it out for sure rather than trust someone elses math. There's various pistons so I'd rather know for sure than guess.

I took a set of 4 1/8 M&W pistons from a WD and put them in a plain old Gleaner E 4.5" stroke engine. Stock crank, rods, and the taller WD pistons. They come out of the block to far, I trimmed (don't rember for sure) .030 I think off the top to get them to come out of the block .010 above the deck, and with a .045 gasket I get a good quench engine. I also had to trim the bowls out to about 82CC (again I don't rember exactly) and then I cut valve reliefs in them to gain a little more volume. It ended up right at 11.25 to 1 compression with a stock head gasket. I had a cam ground and I did reasonable work on the head and manifold. I took a Moline G type carb, TSX 67 I think and set up the linkage to work correctly with the Allis governer. It's for a 4 mph tractor, and I didn't want to work to hard or spend to much money on the project. Probably won't get out much with it anyway and it needs to run an auger now and then anyway so a few gallons of good gas a year won't hurt to bad.

I've got a set of rods here that I had originally made for the project, I was going to bore a nice set of 4.125 sleves to 4.185 and use some automotive pistons with a set of welded allis rods with chevy top ends and boxed in to build a 9 to 1 or 12 to 1 compression engine but I came up with a set of these M&W's instead. I've got the rods and sleves here if someone wants them for a cheap project.
BS all the way
 

Pankey,
you're not even smart enough to know what you're trying to argue about, and keep changineg your story..

Kind of like the post where you ranted on a picture with my hand in it and went off on polmolive hands for a 40 yr old machinins. ....... I'm not 40, I'm not a machinist and no where has it ever been posted. You just keep makeing tings up, pretty soon no one will beleve anything from the Pankey keyboard. They don't now, oh I'm selling the tractor, no all I have to do is harden the rods, oh wait, I'm not pulling. Maybe if I call BS on WI50's cylinder head, maybe he'll post how he did it.........

You're truely an idiot, and have dug yourself into a good hole this time, first there's a question in the dimensions, and at no way could they be right, go back and read, didn't you claim that there's no way they could come out of thte block. And then no way one could cut that large of a dish in the piston........ then on to something else. Now it's accepted that they are correct when you claimed "no way", now you're on to worrying about something else. I have to wonder if they teach any reading comprehension skills or basic math. Take the $200 you wanted to send me for letting you look at one of my cylinder heads and buy some fuel to go to the local grade school and pay attention in class, you have some things to learn.

I dunno, but my quench engine would keep things stirred up better than a flat to flat engine.............. should be an advantage, at least it does in other engines. At least I've got a couple tractors to pull. And I'm not afraid to explain any details or give any information reguarding any of the parts. It's all honest and truthfull.
 
(quoted from post at 10:58:52 05/10/11)
Pankey,
you're not even smart enough to know what you're trying to argue about, and keep changineg your story..

Kind of like the post where you ranted on a picture with my hand in it and went off on polmolive hands for a 40 yr old machinins. ....... I'm not 40, I'm not a machinist and no where has it ever been posted. You just keep makeing tings up, pretty soon no one will beleve anything from the Pankey keyboard. They don't now, oh I'm selling the tractor, no all I have to do is harden the rods, oh wait, I'm not pulling. Maybe if I call BS on WI50's cylinder head, maybe he'll post how he did it.........

You're truely an idiot, and have dug yourself into a good hole this time, first there's a question in the dimensions, and at no way could they be right, go back and read, didn't you claim that there's no way they could come out of thte block. And then no way one could cut that large of a dish in the piston........ then on to something else. Now it's accepted that they are correct when you claimed "no way", now you're on to worrying about something else. I have to wonder if they teach any reading comprehension skills or basic math. Take the $200 you wanted to send me for letting you look at one of my cylinder heads and buy some fuel to go to the local grade school and pay attention in class, you have some things to learn.

I dunno, but my quench engine would keep things stirred up better than a flat to flat engine.............. should be an advantage, at least it does in other engines. At least I've got a couple tractors to pull. And I'm not afraid to explain any details or give any information reguarding any of the parts. It's all honest and truthfull.
Click to expand...
YOUR RIGHT YOUR ALWAYS RIGHT . nascar its a shame you guys cant offer enough to get him off his dads farm. he could teach you you guys a thing or too
 
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