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Tractor Pulling Discussion Forum

Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk

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Mopower

07-24-2010 16:10:18
75.219.73.126



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Hey fellas, you brought up a good point with talk of shipping weight and plow ratings. Just pondering the policing of such. We all know (maybe not) which tractors were direct competitors of eachother and what direct replacements were. In shipping many tractors were documented wet, dry, minimally equipped, loaded, with wheels, without wheels, etc. So say a tractor comes in at 4900 shipping weight and it's competition was 5100. Should they both be allowed in 4500? 5000? Again it gets hairy.

It's common knowledge Farmall went from M to Super M to MTA to 400 to 450. Deere went from G to GM to 70 to 720 to 730. Case went from CC to DC to 400 to 700. Moline went from U to UB to UB Special, to 5-star. Massey went from 44 to 44-special to 444. Oliver went from 80 to 88 to Super 88 to 880.

As for plow rating. The general idea is great. Then I realized a 3540# Moline Jet Star was rated to pull 4-14. So was a U. So was a 5-star. So was a G. So

So I guess when it comes down to plow ratings, all is relative. I pulled a 3-16 with a five star in good clay. It was not gonna have any part of it in 2nd gear. 1st was a struggle.

I refer to my 5-star comparison to the Farmall 450.

450/5-Star

Years produced: 56-58/57-61

Hosepower: 55.28/54.96

Load RPM: 1450/1500

Speeds: 10 with t-a / 10 with t-a

Weight: 6877/6656

Engine: 281cu.in./283cu.in.

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superih

07-26-2010 07:38:01
12.68.14.211



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to Mopower, 07-24-2010 16:10:18  
I just finished reading the Div IV thread below, and here is mine and alot of pullers that I pull with and try to run pulls point of view.

If 95% of the tractors that come to a pull are Farmalls, John Deeres and Olivers, you build classes around those tractors, because remember, in the end the pullers are what make the pull. Now you get one or two very large cubic inch tractors that start showing up (Moline, Case, whatever) your classes are going to instantly shrink because the guys that used to pull know that they have a snowballs chance in Hell of winning. So now a class that used to have 10-15 tractors now has two guys pulling against each other, wow what a show!!!!

I also do not see these rules as trying to exclude certain tractors, I see them as trying to include as many PULLERS as possible and that is what pulling is all about, the competition in the class. Life is not supposed to be fair to everyone, but it should be fair to as many as possible.

Now, there will always be pullers that want to be the Big Fish in a Little Pond so they can always win and say "Look at Me". In my opinion if that is what you are after stick to brush pulls, you can "Awe" everyone there. Myself I want the most competion I can find, if I come out on top of 20 or more pullers I know I had a good hook!

My 2 cents worth.

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Mopower

07-28-2010 11:04:49
64.208.152.149



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to superih, 07-26-2010 07:38:01  
I don't expect this to be a popular statement or to get a book deal but....

I have always been told "when you pull with the NATPA, you pull with the best".

The point you make has validity. When bigger engines enter Div4 smaller drop out or move to Div3. 3500# Div4 is a great example considering the arrival of a large H. Now there are 3-5 contestants. I wouldn't hear of limiting this H even to be "fair to as many people as possible". Oliver 77 have fell prey to this years ago because they were tough. Similar situations have followed with domination by M Farmall series in 4500#.

MM and Case are only bigger in cubic potential. It took until now for guys to use it in U series and pull frequently at the national level. Now it is called unfair to too many people.

This year we have a new group of pullers consistently winning, just as the last group of consistent winners came to be. Many guys were tired of being the big fish at their local pulls and wanted to pull with the best. So they tried and won, but it's no longer "fair" for a few old big fish.

Div4 hooks COULD fall, yes, even though I've only seen numbers grow dramatically. I am throwing my own MM into the 4500# mix because I can. I may even win. My engine will not go in a 5-star for fear of rule changes. But I sure as hell want to pull with the toughest ones out there, not necessarily the biggest group.

As they say, if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch. I don't care to be a big fish in a pond of minnows by kicking out all the Pike. Nor do I care how many people I "awe". No big cube tractor's presence ever made my hook shorter than it would have otherwise been.

The NATPA banner reads "pull with the best", not "pull with the most". Numbers are great, but if you rule out the cream of the crop, you'll never know. That gives meaning to that shiny platic trophy.

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Superih

07-28-2010 19:59:50
75.219.93.34



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to Mopower, 07-28-2010 11:04:49  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Point taken, but you would really enjoy pulling against the same couple tractors everytime? I guess thats just a difference in opinion, of course this discussion only applies to Div IV and I only pull Div III where the speed limit is the ultimate equalizer.



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Mopower

07-29-2010 08:11:48
64.208.152.149



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to Superih, 07-28-2010 19:59:50  
Nah, I'd like to see lots of tractors, as well as the very best. For example: If I beat every Baker M and big bore MM, I'd know I did things right... even if there are only a handfull. But if I had my choice I'd love to pull against two dozen machines. It's much more entertaining.

I could fight every biker in the Roadrunner Bar and have quite a show, but if I knocked out Mike Tyson, I'd be much more pleased with my ability.

Div4 rules should be more strict than Div3 because of the speed limit. I wouldn't restrict Div4 any more, but I would open up Div3. I don't care how big someone is at 3.5mph. Baker 436 engines beat bigger ones in Div3 all the time. (Even Tom's old 421 hung in there well at Oakley's open class. Couldn't believe it.)

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Captainhookerus

07-25-2010 16:16:56
75.163.73.194



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to Mopower, 07-24-2010 16:10:18  
Ethan why are you fooling around tying to apply Div 1 & II rules to Div 4. There are no protected tractors in Div 1 & 2, stay in one division or the other but don"t try to combine



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Mopower

07-25-2010 16:43:59
97.130.80.200



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to Captainhookerus, 07-25-2010 16:16:56  
Agreed Ken. Folks tend to over generalize. Me too.



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dblair

07-24-2010 19:29:05
98.140.24.21



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 Re: Plow Ratings and Weight Classes - NATPA talk in reply to Mopower, 07-24-2010 16:10:18  
the idea is great , I did say (can't pull lower than it's shipping weight) but it probably couldn't work .



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