- Thread starter bfullmer
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Stephen Newell
Well-known Member
560Dennis
Well-known Member
- Location
- Madison,Ohio
Im finding that the frame has some rust inside rectangular sections. I cant get that 1 1/2 vacuum tube to go very far . So going to attempt an adaptation with a smaller hose to get at . I want to get that rust and dirt out of there and treat inside of frame something such as undercoating.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Sandblasting is very good but after a lot of blasting, when you look close, you see plenty of black here and here. That is rust that is going to come bubbling up through the paint in a few years. It happened to me. Get some phosphoric acid and apply it liberally with brush. You can get it at a dairy supply as milk stone remover or at a foodservice supply as mineral film remover. It converts rust to inert iron phosphate.
OR15 sells a zinc phosphate pretreatment too. Zn phosphate is a bit more protective than iron phosphate, but a little fussier and more expensive. Iron phosphate is good, and on a larger scale might be more practical. Either one will deal with the flash rust that you get after sandblasting.
As showcrop said, a phosphate coating will make the paint last longer. The SDS for the Sterosol Milkstone Remover at TSC says it contains 40-50% phosphoric acid at half the lowest price I saw for Ospho, which also contains 45%. POR 15 Metal Prep (Zn Phos) is $47/gallon, vs $19 for the milkstone remover. For my money, it's a toss up between Milkstone cleaner and POR. Depends on how comfortable you are with off label use.
Applying a shade tree mechanic coating is not exactly doing a proper job, but it is a lot better than nothing. An ideal coating gets complicated. As with any process, there are ways to screw it up and ways to improve it. You should dilute the phosphate solution for use on clean metal and obtaining the "best" coating, but you can get a reasonable coating if you don't. Just not something that you can sell to a customer who has a good QC department and needs documentation.
This is the simplest application description that a quick search coughed up.
AllPrep is a liquid, Iron Phosphate cleaner/conversion coatings
It is not one that I have used, but they don't over hype their product and they do adhere to the KISS principal more than the other sites I saw. I have no idea how this material stacks up to any other, but the web site is readable and reasonably informative. They start with a concentration similar to milk stone cleaner, etc., dilute it 20:1 and heat to 120F. If you have some rust to clean off, and don't want to operate at 120F, a more concentrated solution will do both clean and coat, but may not produce the best possible coating. meh
Iron phosphate solutions do work with spray or wipe on application. There are formulations with catalysts that may work faster and better, but a reasonably effective coating can be obtained with cleaning solutions that are not specifically formulated as phosphate coating solution. i.e. iron phos is very forgiving.
Zinc phosphate has to be applied with a proprietary solution. I only know the one readily available wipe on one from POR which I do use myself. If I ran out of the zinc phos and had a bottle of milk stone cleaner handy, I'd use it.
showcrop
Well-known Member
Dave you are letting the description of that Columbia Coatings product lead you astray. Perhaps you will feel better if you look up "Rust Mort". It is made by SEM. If you are not familiar they make a long line of products for the professional Auto body shop. I used it with good success but then I decided to try the product that is made where I work since it is nearly exactly the same thing, and I get all I want for nothing. I used it following the Rust Mort procedure, and found that it works just as well. My employer sells through distributors, and one of our many products is "lime scale remover" / "Milkstone remover" under many different brand names. I am not looking to make any money here. I just happen to know a way to buy something that is normally somewhat expensive for a lot less, so I have been passing it on to my friends here at YT for the last four years.
The important thing that you said was that you followed a procedure that works with a material that you understood and knew to be similar. I was trying to make the point that this may be a pretty simple process, but it isn't foolproof and you need to have some idea where it can go wrong.
The website that I linked has some spray process instructions that are easy to read, that's all. I never used any phosphate coatings made by SEM, but I've looked at phosphate coating failures with an SEM.
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