air supply masks

what and where are the documented health outcomes from painting with urethanes and hardeners? I am long retired, but over the years I have painted probably over 200 cars and trucks with urethane and acrylic enamel with hardeners. I was painting when the first paints with hardeners were offered by Dupont and Sherwin Williams, paint suppliers we used here in SW MI. I almost passed out once when using the early urethane with iso hardener back around 1975 or 76. I am still planning on painting my 55 Ford F100 this summer with base coat, clear coat and a HVLP gun. I paint in a very open area and probably over several days as it will be painted disassembled and in stages. Back in the old days when painting with a mask in a spray booth, I would usually have a overspray pattern on my face around the mask. The way I paint now, that does not happen. I know there are risks in painting this stuff, but no one seems to clearly state what they are. I am a fairly old guy, retired for over 15 years with many or most of the health concerns/complaints of people my age, mostly arthritis and mildly decreased memory.

Perhaps the paint has changed since you painted those 200 cars. I painted one tractor with Dupont Nason in 2009 using a cartridge respirator. I knew it was wrong but I didn't want to buy an air supplied respirator to paint one tractor. I got the tractor painted but coughed for six months afterwards. I even held my breath when downwind from the paint.

isocyanates are absorbed thru respiration and also thru the skin. you gotta suit up around this stuff. heres a link to some of the problems.
poke here

Glennster, that source was somewhat vague. I was curious more about what are regarded as the long term effects. I mentioned that I had rather severe reaction back in 75 or 76 and needed assistance getting out of the spray booth. The paint reps comped me some free paint with explanation that they were newly aware of the dangers and were changing the formula to be safer. I have also had short term rash and perhaps a sniffle and a cough immediately after painting, cleared up with a post painting celebratory beer or 2. I have had my skull invaded medically on 2 occasions, for a subdural hematoma and for a aqueductal stenosis diagnosis. Blocked fluid passage and a dry shrunk right ventricle in the brain. In discussing my history, the Doctors have discounted a chemical/paint connection.

I remember when the 793 first came out for the Dupont Centari, right around '76-'78 like you said. There are two events to worry about. The first is the advertised alergic respiratory reaction which will vary accordingly with the individuals sensitivity to the isocynate. With me it was a delayed reaction. If I painted at 3 pm I wouldn't have the asthma like attack until 6 pm and lasted about an hour. Couldn't get enough air to even blow my nose. Even the smell of it on clothing would start it up. The second is probably what is worrying you and that is the affect of airborn solvents , paint and the isocynates absorbed through the skin/eyes etc. I don't think anyone knows for sure so all they can publish is the worst case scenario. Same as they do for any and all drugs ,perscription or otherwise. Not much at our age that we are going to do about it now. The one thing that has affected me is degenerative joint disease (DJD) which has required a full knee replacement and other one is bone on bone. Elboes are the same. Three years ago had severe spinal stenosis in cervicle spine. No space/disc between three vertibrae and pinched nerves and bone spurs at wear points poking into my spinal cord. I am convinced that the absorbed product over 40 yrs has caused the degeneration (which is normal with age...just not my relatively young age at the time ) Lot of residual nerve damage , muscle spasms and generally just a different life style. Could have been worse but I believe between all the kneeling on concrete floors , constant repetitive hand sanding and the chemicals it was just not what the human body was meant to do. Look at all the old decrepit carpenters there are. With all the air and batt powered stuff now-a-days the body will last a lot longer. Do they even swing hammers anymore ? My uncle was one of the best home builders around Cent. Mi and his body was shot at 70. He's 81 now and still gets out and dances a little but that's about it. No job/profession is 100% safe but they're all a lot safer now than then.

Had a friend of a friend keel over at 42 due to paint exposure. Don't know the exact situation, but friends said the cause was connected to the paint exposure. Not worth it in my book.

Good question. I started painting in the 70's and used Dupont paints. then it was mostly Duco, Dulux, and Lucite. I started using Centari with the hardners 792 & 793. I was told to use a respirator with the cartridges for these. You were to change the cartridges out when you smelled paint. When you used Imron the cartridges were only good for one job. I do not know how good this advise was. The respirators sold now are advertised to be ok for use with isocyanate finishes, hardeners, epoxy paint, and polyurethanes following a proper change-out schedule whatever that is. Now I wonder how safe these are ?

i doubt if you will find ny source that will give a direct result of using brand x product. any chemical can have a number of effects on different people. take a look at the warnings on prescription meds, all kinds of different side effects.

I have read the cautions, could not find a direct concern, but ended up in the ER with respiratory issues after painting with no breathing air, it is just not worth it for me.

Back in the "old days" like the 70's and 80's the rule was to use cartridge respirators for only those chemicals that had good odor warning properties, meaning you could smell them at levels below the exposure limits of that time. If you smelled the chemical in your mask you knew you were no longer being protected and it was time to stop what you were doing and go change cartridges, assuming you had chosen the correct respirator and cartridge in the first place, that it fit properly and wasn't leaking, etc.

You are correct in that today the emphasis is on change out schedules where you calculate in advance how long the cartridge will last for a given situation and then change out the cartridges before that time. Cartridge change schedules are now required by OSHA and they are a "big deal" for industries that use respirators and that are regulated by OSHA. This is all possible because the state of the art for respiratory protection is far improved over the 70's and 80's and the internet now makes it possible to share this information with everyone. You can go to the website of a respirator manufacturer like 3M and they have tools available that help you select the right type of respirator and cartridge for the chemical in question and calculate how long the cartridges can be used before they need to be changed. But sometimes cartridge respirators aren't going to be a good choice and you really need to be using supplied air.