Opinion on paint guns

jimdog · Jan 17, 2016

What do you think about the Astro-evo 4014 paint gun with the 1.4 tip?Would I be able to paint epoxy primer-paint-clear coat with this gun with the 1.4 tip?Never used a gravity feed type gun before.
Thanks for any info.
Jim Fox

Patsdeere · Jan 17, 2016

1.4 will be fine for a color or clear coat. However, for epoxy you will want a larger tip. That stuff is much thicker than paint. I normally run a 1.7.

Stephen Newell · Jan 18, 2016

Primer is generally a nasty finish. It has a lot of solids which are difficult to completely clean out of the gun. If it were me I would use a cheap Harbor Freight sprayer for primer. When it gets to the point it needs excessive cleaning just throw the gun away and get another.

a49deere · Jan 18, 2016

I'm with Stephen on this one, get a harbor freight gun. Heck by two!! I took one of my older ones and drilled tip out with a 1/q6 drill bit, if IIRC works out to between 1.6 and 1.7. works great for primer

dr sportster · Jan 18, 2016

I could only find one review for that gun and it was described as slow. Meaning it took very long to do the car. I would prime with a Harbor -Freight gun . Then spray color from a second gun. I tried a H-F and it atomized well but the disposable cup system leaked drips onto my work . Primer is forgiving and can be scuff sanded but it is nice to not have to clean every iota of it out of the gun to shoot color. So a second gun is nice.

glennster · Jan 18, 2016

i looked at some of the specs and reviews on the gun. overall it looks like a decent gun. its not a sata, but its a better gun than the cheapie harbor freight guns. its a good gun for base coat and clears and it will shoot water borne. there are not different tips available for this gun, so you will need a second gun with a bigger tip for primer. bear in mind i own body shop and am particular on equipment. we use sata and arnest iwata guns. astro does make a primer gun with a 2.0 tip, the gf20s. depending on what product you are shooting and your skill level and the type of finish you are after will determine what gun to choose. if you are shooting farm and fleet alkyd enamel and are not looking for a show type finish, any cheap gun will do. but if you are shooting epoxy at say 180/gallon, and 200/gallon surfacer......i would go with a better gun. saves a lot of wet sanding.

Butch(OH) · Jan 19, 2016

At the recommendation of my Ditzler dealer I bought an Astro gravity fed HVLP 10 years ago and have been very pleased with it. What Glennster said is important and almost exactly what the dealer told me 10 years ago. The average part time painter will be hard pressed to tell any difference between a mid grade gun(like Astro) and the top of the line because his skills just are not there. This is when using single stage two part Urethane and Enamels. As for the tip size you may need two if you decide stay with the one gun plan. Depends on the materials you choose, check the P sheets. You may also be able to "adjust" your primer ratio with reducer so it flows through your gun and stay within the P sheets. It used to be (dated information here) that PPG Ditzler allowed for a small percentage of reducer to be added to their epoxy primers reason being to utilize them as combination sealer/primer. My reason was to slightly adjust the viscosity to my gun's liking so I didnt have to mess with the tip between priming, and top coats.

jimdog · Jan 19, 2016

Glennster says the Astro does not offer any other size tips. It comes with a 1.4,so I guess that means two guns, which is ok. Has any one had any experiance with the Grizzly line of guns, they do offer different size tips.From what I am reading they are a step up from the HF guns. The cost is more than HF but less than Astro. So from what Butch is saying I may be able to get by with the Astro 1.4 tip by useing reducers in the epoxy primer.How would you recommend painting the cast iron,which is red,and seams to be in good shape,not pealing but faded.Should I go over it with a epoxy primer first and if I do does that need to be sanded before top coat? And should the cast iron have a final coat of clear?
Thanks for your help
jf

Butch(OH) · Jan 19, 2016

I am far from an expert more like an amateur with some experience but my first paint job with good materials and equipment was in the fall of 1999 and other than what I have knocked off it looks as good as the day it left the shop. That job I used Delstar single stage Urethane under laid with PPG DP40 epoxy primer reduced per the P sheet. Reducing the epoxy primer has worked well for me even after I switched to the PPG Omni line of materials which is slightly lower in quality. Been 5 years since I have painted a tractor so be certain the practice is allowed with current material. P sheets are your friend.

You will get lots of opinions on how far down to take the surfaces. Myself I have not seen great benefit to removing cured and properly attached coatings but I paint antique tractors, not cars or trucks subjected to road salt and flying debris. Again look at you P sheet under proper substrate it will tell you what you need to do. My first job shows no sign of lifting, no bubbles or pealing after 16 years and the base castings were not blasted clean. We took the loose stuff off the castings with wire brushes, cleaned carefully to remove oils. Sanded down old runs and then primed with reduced epoxy and came right back with top coat in the required time frame.

Butch(OH) · Jan 19, 2016

This is paint job number 1 about 11 years after it left the shop. Pictures from this distance can hide a lot of defects but still looking respectable I think? Materials were PPG Delstar urethane over DP40 epoxy primer and PPG single stage surfacers. Original paint was mostly sanded and painted over, some small parts were blasted bare. All fillers were applied over the primer. If the recoat window was exceeded (5 days I think?) the epoxy was buffed per the P-sheet and reprimed just before top coat. I headed into this job intending to go to bare metal everywhere to do a "proper" job. The paint dealer said go ahead if you wish but it isnt needed, turns out he was right.

Butch(OH) · Jan 19, 2016

Dang,I just did some checking and I bought that Astro in 1999, it is 16 years old, Gesh time goes by!

jimdog · Jan 19, 2016

Butch, thoes are nice looking paint jobs. Have you ever put on clear coat for your last cover? Was that top coated with a Astro gun? Did you prime with the same gun with a 1.4 tip?
Thanks for your advice.
jf

Butch(OH) · Jan 19, 2016

I will need to check the gun for the tip size. That paint is not clear coated and never been waxed, that old Delstar would lay down nice. Hand glaze is all that has ever been used on it, never waxed.

glennster · Jan 19, 2016

jim here is an allis b i shot in single stage crossfire urethane from napa. has a nice shine without clear.

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here is a farmall m i also shot in crossfire single stage urethane.

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my cub done in tisco with hardener. really cheap paint but its a working tractor.

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and for comparison here is a 63 chevy in diamont base clear, dc92 heavy solid glamour clear.

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for a price comparison, the cub has about 125 dollars in paint and primer, the m has roughly 900 in materials, and the chevy about 1500.00. all were shot with sata guns.

dr sportster · Jan 19, 2016

Here a are great line of spray guns that cost a bit more but atomize like no other [except SATA] . Well worth the investment.
iwata

glennster · Jan 19, 2016

we have a couple iwata guns at the shop too, they do make a nice spray gun.

dr sportster · Jan 19, 2016

The rep told me a fire truck company complained to him that they atomized too much. He said he didn't know what to say about that. It may be a bit more money but you will always have it.

jimdog · Jan 19, 2016

Glenn,what model Sata were you useing? Also the tractor I am restoring will not see much field work,will the paint be more durable if I put a clear coat on it,or will hardener do the same thing? I see some used Sata's on e-bay, is that a big gamble buying a used gun? And by the way I am not an experienced painter so if you could recommend a model to match my ability would be appreciated.
Thanks for any help.
Jim

glennster · Jan 20, 2016

we use the sata jet 2000 and 4000 series guns, also the iwata extreme 400 series. all great performers. sharpe makes a finex line that are budget line guns for about 180 a copy. all have replacement parts available, which is nice. if you pick up a sata off ebay, even if it has problems, it can be rebuilt.

jim buford · Jan 20, 2016

I am getting ready to paint a tractor (never painted any vehicle either) and need to know what is a P sheet and why is it important? do the paint suppliers make those available? Thanks

Stephen Newell · Jan 21, 2016

I thought the high dollar guns had different tips available to alleviate that problem. No one gun works for every paint. I use cheap HF sprayers with a 1.7 tip and I have difficulty spraying metallic base coat because it doesn't atomize very good.

glennster · Jan 21, 2016

generally high line guns are designed around a specific product, ie, base/clear vs a primer surfacer type gun. they have a narrow range of tips that will match the products hat the gun will shoot. we use one gun for base, another for clear, and another for primer/surfacer. bear in mind the products we shoot are very expensive, and it has to be right the first time. a re-shoot can cost us any profit on the job. kinda like planting a field with a busted or skipping planter. it will throw dirt around and get some seed in the ground, but you aint a gonna make much money!!!

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