Ventilation while using hardener?

TennMatt1 · Jun 23, 2014

I see a lot of talk on here about ventilation when using a hardener. I'm about to paint my tractor outside or maybe in my stable,which will be by 4 open doors. I've been involved in a lot of painting over the years and never really used much of a mask. I've been in a enclosed shop while hardener was being sprayed and it was no different than anything else. I mean it's all bad to breathe anyways right! I mean is it like deadly to inhale? Really looking for input from people. I don't want to take that dirt nap trying to spray an ol' tractor! [/img]

Anonymous-0 · Jun 23, 2014

even outside that stuff is deadly. The effect is cumulative.
Should not be used anywhere without an air supply. Hobby air
has good ones for under 500.

CNKS · Jun 23, 2014

The isocyanates in hardener is the worst you can breathe, inside or out, ventilation is not enough. You need supplied air. As stated the stuff is cumulative. It will get you sooner or later.

David G · Jun 23, 2014

You are NOT correct, the hardener WILL damage your lungs.

As stated, it is a cumulative issue, might hit you first time, might be 20th, once you are sensitized to it any amount will cause you to wheeze.

I ended up in ER one night because of it.

TennMatt1 · Jun 23, 2014

Well does anybody have any suggestions? I'm not gonna spend $500-$1000 for a scba to paint a tractor! I've never used anything more than a good mask. I talked to my friend who paints and said he has used a mask for years and it has never bothered him. If I wouldn't have read on hear about it being so bad I would've never gave it a second guess. I've been involved in probably 50 vehicle paintings and I've got dizzy once that I can remember. I'm gonna paint it with majic I guess cause I'm also not giving $300 for nason paint. I just want a coat of paint on it. What so bad about majic,I don't care about it looking brand new,just not pinkish red from sitting in the sun for 10 yrs.

Dave H (MI) · Jun 23, 2014

Penny wise and pound foolish is a phrase that comes to mind. The more you post, the more I think you need to Google "Darwin" and read up on his theories.

TimFranktown · Jun 23, 2014

I'm in the same situation where I would like to do a small tractor job (hood, fenders) and would like to use a hardener, but don't want to go to the expense of supplied air for this small project. I found this from 3M. Definitely don't want to end up wheezing for the rest of my life either.

http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UuZjcFSLXTtmxfyoXM2EVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=TU%20Isocyanates%200707.pdf

TimFranktown · Jun 23, 2014

And i found this on a Grainger site that seems to indicate you can use a respirator with the proper cartridge as long as you change it before it hits a threshold
Commonly Asked Questions
Q.
Can I wear an air-purifying, cartridge-style respirator for protection against isocyanates?
A.
Yes. Air-purifying respirators can be used with contaminants that have poor warning properties, such as isocyanates. However, you must check with the manufacturer of your respirator for specifics. For example, 3M and MSA have a respirator change-out formula for some isocyanates.

glennster · Jun 23, 2014

along with the inhalation hazard, the isocyanates are readily absorbed thru the skin. you need to wear a painters suit and nitrile gloves. its up to you, if you value your heath, suit up. if not, then dont.

CNKS · Jun 23, 2014

The cartriges in used in the masks are legal for businesses who have down draft paint booths and a way to measure the amount of isocynates and rigid change times. They are able to get the isocyanate level low enough so that the masks are "safe". Us civilians have no way to do that. You can use a brand new mask that fits perfectly and toss it when you have used it once. Problem is none of them fit perfectly. The ONLY safe way is supplied air. Yes many have painted for years with no problems, and many have painted for less time and gotten sick. Your choice. There is nothing different about 3M's filters, but they are to be used under the specified conditions. I use 3M's masks and filters, but not with iso's.

TennMatt1 · Jun 23, 2014

How bad of quality will the paint be If I don't use hardner? I just don't want to risk it. I wasn't saying you guys didn't know how harmful it was I guess I wanted to justify doing it.I already have asthma too,and use a inhaler. I really don't like to not be able to breathe.

showcrop · Jun 23, 2014

Matt, I haven't used Magic myself, but I won't try it because of problems others have had with it. One problem that I understand that people have had is that red turns pink after a year in the sun.

TennMatt1 · Jun 23, 2014

(quoted from post at 20:42:53 06/23/14)
Matt, I haven't used Magic myself, but I won't try it because of problems others have had with it. One problem that I understand that people have had is that red turns pink after a year in the sun.

Anyone have any suggestions on a different brand of paint. Does rural king sell paint? Went to the local oreileys today and my friend qwerty quotes me $265 for nason acrylic enamel and napa wasn't much better. I just stopped at Lowe's and they only carry oil based rustoleum? The tractor will always be stored in the stable and only be outside probably 2 times a month. I believe it was painted with tsc paint the last time and I will be going back over that after prep on it.

El Toro · Jun 23, 2014

I sprayed my garden tractor in 2010 using acrylic enamel without any hardener. It's always sheltered from the weather. Hal

TennMatt1 · Jun 23, 2014

What brand did you use,get it from?

tractorguy2 · Jun 23, 2014

What does that mean when the effect is cumulative?

bill mart · Jun 23, 2014

link
pdf link

El Toro · Jun 24, 2014

The blue paint was sold by our local New Holland dealer for about $20.00 for a quart. The light almond was made by Dupont. Both were acrylic enamel. Hal

bobgrimes · Jun 24, 2014

cumulative means you might not be bothered by the fumes now but they will get you sooner or later. once in the system it doesnt leave. they can be absorbed through skin as well as inhaked.

TennMatt1 · Jun 24, 2014

I done a lot of research on respirators last night and found that the 3m 6000 carries a filter just for iso's. I also done a lot of research on isocyanates too. According to the cdc there has only been one death occur and that person was told 5 yrs previously to not be painting because of the cumulative effects in his lungs. He had been a painter for 20 years prior. There are companies whose employees only wear a half mask with the correct filter. It says you must change the filter every 8 hours. I'm going to buy a full mask,which I've used while painting inside busses numerous times not knowing really why they wanted me to wear one. Well this explains it to a tee. So since I'll be painting outside and I know how to properly wear a mask I see no harm being done. The cdc says for long exposure in confined environments a scba is mandatory. I'm not telling someone to buy a mask and they'll be alright. If you don't know how to properly fit and use one there is no use in putting one on. I was just under the impression they didn't make a filter for ketones and toluene. Rattle cans are full of these chemicals.

Anonymous-0 · Jun 24, 2014

You already have asthma and use an inhaler? Jeez Louise, you should stay away from hardeners as far as you can get. Take it from some one who's been there and learned the hard way - without asthma as a precondition. Your health, your decision.

Chase_99 · Jun 24, 2014

I'm no professional painter but from all the reading I've done and guys I've talked to who do paint this what I've found.

Those half mask 3m resperators rated for painting will work however only in certain condtions and even then they are not fool proof. A comercail built paint booth that cycles the air in the booth so many times a minute is a far cry different then someones shop with a "wall fan" running!!!! In a properly built paint booth yeah sure you could probably get by with a basic mask however painting in your basic home shop the mist will be WAAAAAY more dense at times on bigger jobs and those little masks are not rated to filter that much out. I found out the hard way a few years back. Since then I bought a Breath Cool supplied air system for a few hundred bucks with 100 feet of hose that I roll up on a garden hose spool stand. I use it for sand blasting too. Its way nicer to paint with then those masks. Heck you can spend a lot on a good mask and filters also. Onlly draw back would be you have that darn hose to drag around also.

This has a basic hood and if I was doing it for a living I'd have a better one for sure but for the hobby painter it works good. I use those disposable paint suits, gloves and the hood and when I'm done I'm clean and don't feel like I've been breathing fumes.

TennMatt1 · Jun 24, 2014

Yeah the full face mask is @ $140 and the half mask was about $50 with the replacement correct filters at about $5 a pair. I'm gonna paint it outside that's why I figured a mask would work. I was maybe gonna paint the tank ,grill,and hood right inside a 20' opening in my stable. I've just tried to weigh out options and have done a ton of reading. I don't wanna die from a $100 paint job. I was curious as to what was in ordinary spray paint so I looked. And now to know all these years I've been painting without a mask that's what I've been inhaling! No wonder I have asthma!

CNKS · Jun 25, 2014

As you use iso's your resistance gets lower and you feel the effects. Similar to people becoming allergic to something. I am allergic to a couple of herbicides.

Ventilation while using hardener?

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