Paint Finish Textured - What Happened? Need some Help

RTR

Well-known Member
First of all, I am no painter or expert by any means but have painted about 22 tractors over the last 3-4 years and should be much better than this. This is the first time (well second, as it happened the last time I painted) that this has happened to me. Usually I will just steam-wash the tractor well, hand sand some places and sheetmetal with paper or a palm sander, wire wheel the cast iron, wipe with lacquer thinner, wash with soap and water, then paint. Well, since I have started having the sheetmetal blasted and primed, I"ve wet sanded it(with 3 grit stages going up to 800), then washed with soap water, then painted. I"ve kept the same old routine on the cast (wash, wire wheel, clean, paint). The only 2 (last 2) tractors I"ve done the wet sanding to, have came out the worst.....with the red tractor worst than the one before it. Before I get too deep in the post and talk too much. I"ll post pictures of my set up I used and some pictures of my work before I was having these particular problems. Granited the other tractors were not perfect by any means, but the last 2 should have looked much better than those.
 
Here is the gun I use and the paint.

Harbor Freight Gun (been using it for 1 1/2 years).....used another one before that and just replaced it even though I clean them. I had also used this particular gun on the Red tractor (last one painted) RIGHT AFTER I had thoroughly taken it apart and cleaned it.

The pressure regulator and water filter (also from Harbor Freight) on the paint gun. I started using these 2 accessories on the last 2 tractors I painted. I added them after reading an online article stating it is better to have versus my current setup (pressure regulator at compressor and no filter).

CASE/IH Iron Guard Paint. Just started using it and only used it on the last 2 tractors (the ones I had finish problems with)

The Hardener and Reducer came from the local Automotive Paint Store and should be the correct application for the type of paint and the weather conditions. It was recommended by the owner of the store and I've been using it since I started painting with different brands of paint with no problems like I've expierenced on the last 2 tractors.

Paint Mixed at the 8:1:1 ratio as recommended by paint store and have been doing that for 3-4 years with no problems....with more expierence sometimes I add reducer as needed to the viscosity I prefer to spray through the gun.

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[u:3141202c6b]Previous Work[/u:3141202c6b][b:3141202c6b]

Set-up Differences from the 2 "bad ones":[/b:3141202c6b]
[list:3141202c6b]No Regulator or Filter on Spray Gun, Regulator on Compressor Only, No Water Filter Used, Valspar or Tisco Tractor Paint Instead of IH Ironguard, Sheetmetal was Sanded with 220 grit Palm Sander[/list:u:3141202c6b]


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I doubt if this will solve your problem, but IH makes a hardener for their paint -- parts man may say no. CaseIH also has a reducer, always best to use products by the same manufacturer if possible. It seems that the ratio should be 8:1 without hardener and 4:1:1 with hardener, but I use urethane exclusively, so I have not used the CaseIH paint. Toss the lacquer thinner and use wax and grease remover made for the purpose. The wax and grease remover is the last step. If you use soap and water use it before the wax and grease remover. Sometimes things go wrong for no known reason, a little unusual that it occurred with CaseIH. I assume you are using an HVLP gun. Set the regulator on the gun wide open to keep from accidentally moving it while painting. Set the pressure with the regulator on the wall. Set it at the max pressure as stated on the gun or in the instructions. You do not need to deviate from that pressure. I prefer epoxy primer, it is the best available, if you don't use it then use the CaseIH primer. I don't know if you are showing the texture in the pictures or not, I don't see anything.
 
Unless you are using a good heavy primer/surfacer and applying a good 3 -4 coats over the sandblasted parts and then wet sanding down smooth,taking off two coats, then it's possible that you are not filling in the rough sand blast profile and it will affect the final gloss. They may be using too coarse of an abrasive or too much air pressure or both. You said you were wet sanding but how much? After you apply last coat of primer, apply a tracer coat or use the powdered tracer or "guide coat" of contrasting color so when you wet sand you just go until the tracer coat color is all gone to ensure smooth final finish. You need no coarser than 400-500 for your final sanding. 800 is too fine for proper bite.Also you said you were "having the blasted metal primed" What are they using and how much? I think between the blasting profile and the product they are using is where you will find your problem. RB
 
Lr 12 is for limco base coat and limco acrylic urethane clear coats. Case iron guard is a modified alkyd enamel.
 
(quoted from post at 17:41:08 09/23/13) I doubt if this will solve your problem, but IH makes a hardener for their paint -- parts man may say no. CaseIH also has a reducer, always best to use products by the same manufacturer if possible. It seems that the ratio should be 8:1 without hardener and 4:1:1 with hardener, but I use urethane exclusively, so I have not used the CaseIH paint. Toss the lacquer thinner and use wax and grease remover made for the purpose. The wax and grease remover is the last step. If you use soap and water use it before the wax and grease remover. Sometimes things go wrong for no known reason, a little unusual that it occurred with CaseIH. I assume you are using an HVLP gun. Set the regulator on the gun wide open to keep from accidentally moving it while painting. Set the pressure with the regulator on the wall. Set it at the max pressure as stated on the gun or in the instructions. You do not need to deviate from that pressure. I prefer epoxy primer, it is the best available, if you don't use it then use the CaseIH primer.

After reading Glennster's and B maniac's responses, I think one or both have the answer. You have the wrong reducer and probably a incompatible primer. I often order parts that have been primed -- first thing I do is remove the primer and use epoxy. Also, after looking closer I think I see the defects on the 140. I have never seen those "spots", mine is usually a small area where the previous coat lifted the paint, usually when I wanted another coat and was outside the window. I assume you are putting the coats on every 5-10 minutes and not waiting too long--that can lift the paint.
 
Soryy, cant get used to the ipad. Anyway thelh 100 will work with the lr12for the limco 1 line. I need to do a little research in our tech books on limco, it is a basf line, we shoot diamont here.
 
Actually Limco LR11,LR12, and LR13 is for Limco synthetic enamel, acrylic enamel, and single stage urethane. It's the reducer for the Limco 123 series. When you get into the Limco basecoat you are supposed to use LBR 1470,1480 or 1490. His reducer wasn't the problem.
 
You posted that as I was posting mine Glennster. I've used the Limco reducer and hardener in Agco paint which is alkyd enamel and it has worked fine. But I'm with everyone else. Wiping with lacquer thinner is a big no no.
 

Those were the "good". I'll post the ones that I'm not happy with tomorrow when I get to work
 
(reply to post at 10:37:21 09/24/13)

[b:4eacdba19e]The Last 2 Tractors (the "BAD ONES") [/b:4eacdba19e]

Here is the first tractor I had painted where it turned out not so good. THis one isn't as bad as the last one, but I feel like it is the same effect. I can live with this one, but the last one I can't.

This is the tractor where I started using the gun setup pictured (regulator and filter). Also, where I started using CASE/IH Ironguard. And also these 2 are where I started having the metal blasted, primed (with "All You Need" as recommended by Paint Shop), then Wet Sanded (320, 400, 600)



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You can't tell from the pictures, but if you feel with your hands and look close at it, it has a TEXTURED FINISH and is somewhat dull.

The red tractor I am showing next is the worst .
 
Basically.....most of the cast iron came out pretty well....it seems a little dull for the finish, but smoothed out nice. The sheetmetal is where I had the most trouble.

I did wet sand the gas tank (with original paint and no primer) just so it would "match" the rest of the sheetmetal. Like I said earlier, I'm no professional, but I "thought" that would help.

The fenders were not wet sanded however were cleaned up with some 220 sandpaper.

The fenders, gas tank, hood, and front cowl/grille all came out like you see in the pictures of the gas tank, etc.
 
Looks like severe <a href="http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/s/trouble/PDSG_OrangePeel.html">Orange Peel</a> to me.
 
(quoted from post at 19:26:10 09/24/13) Looks like severe &lt;a href="http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/s/trouble/PDSG_OrangePeel.html"&gt;Orange Peel&lt;/a&gt; to me.

Yeah, well I've never had it happen and I haven't done anything any different except do more to make the finish better.

I'm thinking about scrapping that regulator and water filter on the gun because I've not liked the way it operated since I bought it. It seems like it is only either OFF or ON. You can turn the knob while holding trigger and it will go from 0 psi to 35 psi to about 40 psi. That is it. It's funny this started happening after I started using that set up.
 
(quoted from post at 19:26:10 09/24/13) Looks like severe &lt;a href="http://pc.dupont.com/dpc/en/US/html/visitor/s/trouble/PDSG_OrangePeel.html"&gt;Orange Peel&lt;/a&gt; to me.

I thought orange peel, but it seems much worse and maybe different than that. I was conscious about the way I held my gun and conscious about not putting a heavy coat on each time. I did put about 3-4 coats of paint on everything and waited 15-20 minutes in between coats. Maybe a little longer.

Before, when painting (and it turned out better) I wasn't as conscious about keeping 90 degree angle, I put it on thick first time around, etc.

I've found this article about troubleshooting painting problems.....my problem seems to fit a couple of the situations, but my problem seems worse than those.

[color=blue:37f04484fe]http://www.streetrodderweb.com/tech/0901sr_help_with_troubleshooting_paint_problems/viewall.html[/color:37f04484fe]
 
talked to our basf tech line, they are thinking that the limco hardener is reacting with the iron guard paint when it is atomizing in the gun, causing it to gel up as its applied. it is always best to stay in manufactures paint lines to avoid problems like this. crossing paint lines and different mfr products can cause nothing but problems. at this point, i would strip all the paint off and re-shoot. also, alter your prep proceedure. bodywork, prime and block, wet sand with 400 using warm water and car wash soap ( it rinses clear with no residue) wash again with warm water and car wash soap, immediately blow gun dry. then use a wax and grease remover like prep sol, finyl wash ect, tack rag it, then shoot it. depending on the primer you used, the lacquer thinner could also be causing problems with the primer.
 

I'm sorry for the confusion, but I never used lacquer thinner on any of the wet sanded and primed peices. I'll wet sand using clean water from the outside spigot, then rinse with clean water from the spigot, then wash with car wash soap and clean water from the spigot then allow to air dry in the sun and blow dry with compressed air.

It seems odd to me that I've never had that problem when using the cheaper Tisco and Valspar Paint from TSC (Case Ironguard is also Valspar). Did you notice the breather top I painted that turned out nice? I feel like it has to do with the gun adjustment and air pressure setting. Not saying that it isn't what you have stated, but I feel like it isn't the only thing making it happen.
 
I'm definitely going to start wet sanding with soap and using warm water like you suggested.
 
Lose the regulator at the gun altogether (you don't need it) but <a href="http://www.rodnh.byethost12.com/misc/pressure.htm">keep the gage.</a>
 
I would advise against using All You Need. It is nothing but spray able body filler. It is not moisture proof and it's way too hard to sand. I've used it many times along with the yellow Z Chrome primer...both are made by Clausen. A good epoxy will provide moisture resistance, adhere better,and flow out smoother. All you need leaves a textured finish and it's hard too sand out. I usually knocked it down with 180 and then water sand with 400. I have seen it crack after a year or two also, and once I got bad hardener with mine and it wouldn't set up and I had to scrape it off. Another thought for you is if you painted that stuff outside and the gray All You Need ive used looks almost black, I would say the panels were heated up before you sprayed them to where the paint flashed as soon as it hit the panel and didn't flow out. Using medium reducer didn't help that any either.
 
use a sponge to dunk in the warm soapy water, then have it drip above where you are sanding. it flushes the paper to keep it from clogging, and the paper will cut longer. also, i use a 3m rubber squeegee 3x5 to squeegee the water off the sanded area to check progress. frequent dunking of the paper help also.
 
Yes I frequently dunk the paper and flush the sanded peice with water to check progress. I don't mind changing primer, but will go ahead and use the rest of the stuff I have. Will the CASE/IH Ironguard Primer be a good replacement, then continue to wet sand it down to yeild a nice finish??

It was pretty hot the day I painted (95 F) and sunny....but didn't seem as humid as previous days.

From the link posted earlier, it looks like I should have used a "slow" reducer (Limco LR-13), but the paint shop suggested "Use LR-12 in this weather". Maybe he was busy and meant it the other way around. This is just one for the books for expierence!!
 
That's certainly part of your problem - medium reducer at 95 degF. I wouldn't paint AT ALL at that temperature, even with a slow reducer. Your "paint store" is not a reliable authority on the products it sells. Mixing and matching products, medium reducer in very hot weather? Jeez, you need to find a better source. You also should lose that stupid "gun regulator" and pay close attention to your atomization pressure.
 
How about a few more pictures from around your yard. Would love to see the tractors in the back ground. I'd say you live in paradise with all those tractors to work with!!!
 
Now that I've seen the "bad" pics, and now that you said what temp it was and how long you waited between coats and what reducer you used, it is pretty clear what happened. That paint is skinning over too quickly and setting a film and with that heat and time laps between coats , each successive coat is eating up the soft shell of the previous one. That's why it looks so uniform and is on the verge of lifting.You might have been ok if you only waited maybe 10 min between coats. Pretty much the same look as you get when you apply aircraft stripper to some very cured paint. It is basically eating itself up. The product incompatibility probably didn't help either.
 
It's been a almost a month now since It was painted (I've been out of town on business since). I saw it last Sunday and the tractor and sheetmetal (peices were inside storage building). Look the same as in it doesn't look like it's getting worse by curing. I really want to sand it all back down with 220 and go back over with something like 400 or 600, but I was told by dad to chalk that one up as a loss on looks and leave it as is. He said it's too much time and money to go back and re-do that I can make it up on the next one and learn from the mistake. I just want to "fix" the gas tank, hood, and front cowl since those are the worst peices and the ones that need to look the best. It's killing me to leave it as-is, but I can see what he is saying and he's right.
 
i also didnt realize it was that hot when you painted. that explains a lot. as to what to do now, i'd strip it and start over, but, you could try and d/a it down with 220, then wet sand it, and re-shoot it. you are gonna go thru a lot of paper as it is going to be soft. you will need cooler temps to shoot at. 80 degrees would be good, keep the tractor out of direct sunlight so the metal doesnt heat up. not sure how you are applying the product. but for the alkyds and synthetic enamels, i shoot a light first coat (tack coat) just enough to get color, not complete coverage, then let it flash off. second coat is a medium coat to get uniform coverage, let it flash, then the last coat is a wet coat to get gloss. you do need to be careful as the last coat gets a tendancy to run and sag if its too heavy. here are a couple pics of my cub i did in farm and fleet paint about 15 years ago, no hardener. its a working tractor and still looks pretty good considering all the use. i was not going to shoot expensive paint on this tractor.

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Where do you recommend buying sand paper in bulk for cheap? I reckon I would need some 220 for a D/A (I'm gonna go buy me an air powered D/A), and some 400 and 600 for wet sanding.

I think I am going to get the gas tank, hood, and front cowl and bring it home with me and work on it during the week so "no time is lost" that way it'll look better and be done "right". I work full time during the week 100 miles away from the tractor, so when I'm doing tractor work, I only have 2 days on the weekend to do it. It's around 80-85 degrees this week and hopefully it'll hold out next week.

We've got a Farmall Super A that we've almost got ready to paint so it'll be next!!
 
I usually buy mine from my local BASF jobber. The 3M red D.A. paper isn't bad for the price. It's not as good as their gold line but it's half the price. I usually stick to either 3M or Norton,and Carborundum Abrasives makes some decent paper,but they also make some really cheap white looking sandpaper and avoid it at all costs. I have found that going with cheaper paper doesn't really save anything when you have to change the paper twice as often as the good brands. A couple of years back I switched to using a 3M interface pad on my D.A. The paper for them uses Velcro to hold it on the pad and it has a foam interface pad that goes between the DA pad and the sandpaper so you can sand curves without digging it up and making flat spots. Also the paper for them has holes in it and allows the dust to go up thru the pad and not clog your sandpaper, and because of the Velcro you can switch paper back and forth all you want and reuse it unlike adhesive backed where it usually won't stick again after its been stuck to the pad once.
 
yeah, I didn't necessarily mean I wanted to buy and use "cheap" paper, I was just asking if there was a good online site that had 3M or Norton paper at a good cheap(er) price (especially if bought in bulk). That interface pad sounds like a good idea too!
 
Go to summitracing.com. They sell all kinds of body shop supplies at good prices. They send out a catalog of just body shop stuff a couple of times a year. I have bought their epoxy and urethane primers both from them and I have no complaints whatsoever on either product, but they were much cheaper than what I could buy it for locally. Another good thing about the interface pad is if you have a DA that has a vacuum hook up is you can suck the dust out as you sand which makes the paper last even longer.
 

That sounds like a great idea on the DA with a vaccum. I was just going to start off with a Harbor Freight DA Sander (I know they're cheap but I need to try using one before I buy an expensive one). Would Summit Racing have the Vaccum DA Sanders too?
 
They probably do...I bought one of the Harbor Freight professional series palm DA sanders several years back and it has been a good one. It has the vacuum hook up also. I looked online and they don't show the professional series one anymore but they do have this one
http://www.harborfreight.com/6-inch-self-vacuuming-air-palm-sander-98895.html
 
(quoted from post at 06:19:29 09/27/13) I use mirka sandpaper at the shop. It wear better than the 3m
paper and has a lower cost.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll look for it.

I went and bought the harbor freight D/A sander last night.
[size=18:efdccb9ca0][color=red:efdccb9ca0]
D-A Sander
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I noticed it didn't come with the soft pad with the hook and loop design for the paper as some of you were talking about. Does it really matter, and what kind of paper does this one take. I was looking at the palm sander with vacuum that you had bought, but it wasn't a D/A sander so I went with this one.
 
It looks to me like a combination of problems. When
I paint in the heat I usually let the coats dry a
little longer. Also use a little more reducer. It
helps the evap process. When your paint is too thick
and too wet, the layer you lay down on top "pulls"
the wet paint from the first coat as it dries. The
more you spray, the more dramatic the deformity of
the paint becomes. Imagine the millions of "bb" like
solids in the paint all running together in mounds
and the thinner running like water in between the
hills. The mounds take forever to dry. So, spraying
color is a dance between hardener, solids and
reducer. Always different depending on humidity, air
temp and paint type. I keep a log of what works well
and the temp and RH that day.

Next point is the gun. A conventional spray gun
works by blasting a lot of air past a lot of paint
and creating a big cloud of atomized "bb's" that
land on the surface. An hvlp gun uses much less
paint and a very focused small amount of air to do
the same thing. If you let the paint from the
conventional gun blow back or fall onto the surface,
it "mounds" up as the paint you sprayed starts to
dry. The hvlp gun minimizes blow back, but does not
eliminate it.

Most guns out there have a manufacturer
recommendation for where to start with the paint
flow knob and the airflow. Airflow max is usually
printed on the gun. I have used a lot of guns and if
I don't know the specs I start with 2.5 turns open
on paint flow. Then adjust as needed. I know
everyone says paint the second coat after flashing,
but that only works if you have the correct
paint,hardener, reducer mix. Otherwise you can avoid
some of the issue by letting each coat cure then
spraying the next after a light wet sand scuffing.

I'm a self taught painter and just started on
tractors but I've done a lot of spraying on autos
both base/clear and single stage paints and you have
a pretty classic problem. Improper gun AND paint
mixture for the environment you sprayed in. Hope
this helps.
 
what are you meaning by improper gun. I kind of feel that is/was the problem too. I am using the common Harbor Freight HVLP gun that 90% of the people on the board use. They're known to do an "above average" job for what they are, and I've gotten better results with it before.

I feel like I don't have it adjusted properly, and really don't know how to adjust it properly. Reading the internet how to do it and actually having someone there to help show you how are 2 very different things. I've tried reading articles on adjusting and it seems like it makes it worse than if I just "winged it" on the adjustment.

I also agree it was a combo on the gun and the chemical reaction of the mixed paint with the weather. Is that what you meant by "Improper Gun" ?
 
Your gun is set when the air is set to the spec on the gun (use the gauge on the gun, not on the wall) or in the instructions that came with the gun, and the fluid wide open. Set it that way, leave it that way. I never change the adjustments in my gun. If the pattern is to big I use a smaller gun. A major advantage of HVLP is that you set them and forget them.
 
(quoted from post at 09:34:33 09/29/13) Your gun is set when the air is set to the spec on the gun (use the gauge on the gun, not on the wall) or in the instructions that came with the gun, and the fluid wide open. Set it that way, leave it that way. I never change the adjustments in my gun. If the pattern is to big I use a smaller gun. A major advantage of HVLP is that you set them and forget them.

"and the fluid wide open." should read pattern and fluid wide open. I realize that some will disagree with that statement, but I have success using a touch up gun for small items rather than repeatedly adjusting the large gun to fit the smaller parts. In fact I use the touch up gun 95% of the time. The large one is used only on the chassis and the sheet metal if needed. I don't use the cheap guns as I would rather pay the expense for a good one, use it for years and buy repair parts as needed. I have not used 2150 or any other alkyd enamel. Directions for quality paint are very specific, with the PPG I use, the mixture is given exact and does not need to be messed with. The only thing that needs to be changed is the reducer, which in PPG Omni is 3 ranges. I never change the amount. I would rather paint than mess with guns and mixtures.
 
been watchin this thread ,, if you paint outside ,and I do ,pik a sunny less humid clear day ,paint early and let the afternoon sun dry so you can carry parts inside for the nite ,YOU MUST PROTECT THE PAINT FROM THE NITE DEW ,,. Guess HOW I KNOW ???,,
 
I just discovered this thread. Wow, that finish is severe. I would strip those parts and start over.

I do classic car restoration and all my own painting. I've been painting since 1990. My best advice, don't try to save money or skimp on paint/autobody products or tools. With all the manual labor involved it's penny wise and dollar foolish to skimp.

I own two Sata paint guns. I use PPG Acrylic Urethane (single stage on tractor stuff, and car restoration stuff(except the body sheet metal where I use Base/Clear Acrylic urethane. Those enamels are old time. I wouldn't deal with them. Acrylic Urethane will be tougher, have a better finish, if far more resistant to gas, bake fluid and more. One of the keys to restoration is proper metal prep and sealing the metal with a good Epoxy sealer primer like PPG DPLF.

You are breaking a cardinal rule of mixing hardeners and reducers of one company with the paint of another. An unintended chemical reaction is the likely result.

You have proven why it pays to use better products and be consistent in using one product line.

It stinks when you have to start over, but it's also a learning lesson. I think you'll also find if you take my advice, you'll end up with a finish that far exceeds you experience so far. PPG Single Stage Acrylic urethane can be flattened to adjust the gloss level to what you desire also.
 
I just discovered this thread. Wow, that finish is severe. I would strip those parts and start over.

I do classic car restoration and all my own painting. I've been painting since 1990. My best advice, don't try to save money or skimp on paint/autobody products or tools. With all the manual labor involved it's penny wise and dollar foolish to skimp.

I own two Sata paint guns. I use PPG Acrylic Urethane (single stage on tractor stuff, and car restoration stuff(except the body sheet metal where I use Base/Clear Acrylic urethane. Those enamels are old time. I wouldn't deal with them. Acrylic Urethane will be tougher, have a better finish, if far more resistant to gas, bake fluid and more. One of the keys to restoration is proper metal prep and sealing the metal with a good Epoxy sealer primer like PPG DPLF.

You are breaking a cardinal rule of mixing hardeners and reducers of one company with the paint of another. An unintended chemical reaction is the likely result.

You have proven why it pays to use better products and be consistent in using one product line.

It stinks when you have to start over, but it's also a learning lesson. I think you'll also find if you take my advice, you'll end up with a finish that far exceeds you experience so far. PPG Single Stage Acrylic urethane can be flattened to adjust the gloss level to what you desire also.
 
Very true! Especially this time of year when the days are warm and the nights are colder. The dew here this morning was so heavy you'd swear it rained a lot during the night. I learned that same lesson the hard way years ago.
 
I've got the DA sander and I need to get some paper for it.

Where do you guys recommend getting it (who will have it) because I need to try and get the work started tomorrow since I'm off. I can order paper in bulk online, but I don't have the time right now and need to go buy some. Will the hardware store or Lowe's/Home Depot have it? We also have a Harbor Freight and Tractor Supply here too.

I'm thinking I need regular (non-wet) 320 to sand first, then 400 wet sand, then 600 wet sand. Will that work?
 
If your using a DA I would use 220 and then wet sand by hand with 400. There is no real reason to use 600 since your shooting single stage enamel. If you was shooting a pearl or metalic base coat then I would say go over it with 600 but it isn"t needed in your case. Where to get your paper at locally I couldn"t tell you. Most of the places you named sell DA paper but most of them sell 5" paper that is made for electric DA sander pads. You will have to go look and see who sells 6" paper. If you switch the pad to a soft pad made for adhesive backed paper then I know harbor freight sells some.
 
You have to remember that most people don't want to pay $800.00 for a gallon of Concept single stage acrylic urethane red to go on their tractor. It's hard enough to convince them to put it on their show cars. I see you like PPG a lot, I've used hundreds of gallons of it but I can't say it's any better than Diamont,Glasurit, Chroma Base,House of Color,Sikkens,Matrix or any others I've shot over the years, but PPG certainly prices their stuff like its better than everyone else.
 

Where would I get the soft pad for the "velcro" style paper? I looked at HF but didn't see one....but I really didn't know what I was looking for.

Thanks!
 
So are you planning to strip the parts completely? or just sand down somewhat and bodywork from there? The issue is, whatever chemical reaction happened to produce the problem, may also have an adhesion problem. So if you do new work over top of the problem paint, in a year or two it could start peeling. Then all of that additional work would be for nothing. I recommend stripping the parts. I recommend that you find a soda or plastic media blaster in your area to strip the parts back to bare metal.

Jason, $800/gallon? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Maybe half that for red, yes. Red is the most expensive color. Granted I've only bought 1 gallon this last year(yellow for my forklift).
I stick with PPG because It's what I learned on and what I know. I'm sure those other name brands you mentioned are perfectly fine too. Those ARE known good brands, and they are acrylic urethane. I've use a few RM products and they are good too. It's when you get into the off brand, or the old technology paints that frankly are not up to the level of the acrylic urethanes for performance, application, durability, chemical resistance, UV resistance etc. And even worse when you are not using the correct hardener, or reducer for a given product.

Look at the labor the OP has to go through on this project- the original labor, then stripping, then starting over again and body working from scratch. He's lost more than the cost of the better products and a high quality gun, not to mention the superior finish that would come from Acrylic urethane.
 
So are you planning to strip the parts completely? or just sand down somewhat and bodywork from there? The issue is, whatever chemical reaction happened to produce the problem, may also have an adhesion problem. So if you do new work over top of the problem paint, in a year or two it could start peeling. Then all of that additional work would be for nothing. I recommend stripping the parts. I recommend that you find a soda or plastic media blaster in your area to strip the parts back to bare metal.

Jason, $800/gallon? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Maybe half that for red, yes. Red is the most expensive color. Granted I've only bought 1 gallon this last year(yellow for my forklift).
I stick with PPG because It's what I learned on and what I know. I'm sure those other name brands you mentioned are perfectly fine too. Those ARE known good brands, and they are acrylic urethane. I've use a few RM products and they are good too. It's when you get into the off brand, or the old technology paints that frankly are not up to the level of the acrylic urethanes for performance, application, durability, chemical resistance, UV resistance etc. And even worse when you are not using the correct hardener, or reducer for a given product.

Look at the labor the OP has to go through on this project- the original labor, then stripping, then starting over again and body working from scratch. He's lost more than the cost of the better products and a high quality gun, not to mention the superior finish that would come from Acrylic urethane.
 
I've got the DA sander and I need to get some paper for it.

Where do you guys recommend getting it (who will have it) because I need to try and get the work started tomorrow since I'm off. I can order paper in bulk online, but I don't have the time right now and need to go buy some. Will the hardware store or Lowe's/Home Depot have it? We also have a Harbor Freight and Tractor Supply here too.

I'm thinking I need regular (non-wet) 320 to sand first, then 400 wet sand, then 600 wet sand. Will that work?
 
(quoted from post at 21:08:47 09/30/13) So are you planning to strip the parts completely? or just sand down somewhat and bodywork from there? The issue is, whatever chemical reaction happened to produce the problem, may also have an adhesion problem. So if you do new work over top of the problem paint, in a year or two it could start peeling. Then all of that additional work would be for nothing. I recommend stripping the parts. I recommend that you find a soda or plastic media blaster in your area to strip the parts back to bare metal.

Jason, $800/gallon? Isn't that a bit of an exaggeration? Maybe half that for red, yes. Red is the most expensive color. Granted I've only bought 1 gallon this last year(yellow for my forklift).
I stick with PPG because It's what I learned on and what I know. I'm sure those other name brands you mentioned are perfectly fine too. Those ARE known good brands, and they are acrylic urethane. I've use a few RM products and they are good too. It's when you get into the off brand, or the old technology paints that frankly are not up to the level of the acrylic urethanes for performance, application, durability, chemical resistance, UV resistance etc. And even worse when you are not using the correct hardener, or reducer for a given product.

Look at the labor the OP has to go through on this project- the original labor, then stripping, then starting over again and body working from scratch. He's lost more than the cost of the better products and a high quality gun, not to mention the superior finish that would come from Acrylic urethane.

D0595D79-3735-433D-B401-398A7B28A6AB-6553-00000549DAFF67E6_zpsef843de0.jpg


This red to be exact.
 

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