clearcoating tractor and impliment paint

Anonymous-0

Well-known Member
I ussually use dupont 3.5 imron on everything but recently i have heard of alot of people using just regular jd or international paint because it's cheaper and then spraying clear over it. I was just wondering if anyone has tried this and how it works. Thanks John
 
I have read it throuigh and will condense it a little for clarity. Clear cote , in any brand , was designed to be applied wet on wet, meaning a chemical bond as apposed to a mechanical (sand scratches) over a "compatible" base. It was never designed as a stand alone coating to spray over anything , old or new , after being sanded first for adhesion. Anyone can play the mix and match game and some will win and others will do something a little different or "cheat" a little and end up paying for it later. Every Tom Dick and Harry in the chemical bussiness markets a generic economy brand of clear and also hardners. Bottom line is this , you can apply anything over anything and add any hardner to anyones enamel/urethane.Does anyone ever wonder why JD or CIH don't have clear and hardner on the shelf with their paint along with detailed instructions on how to use it??? It's called "liability" or in this case lack of it. Has anyone ever read the label on automotive paint? It says " for professional use only , not intended for sale to the general public" Again " liability" because they know people will "cheat" to save a dime and they will not be held liable for it. Is this the way you did all the rest of the prep and mechanical work on your tractor restoration?? Why are you so willing to pi$$ it all away to save a few dollars after all that work. I'm not saying every tractor project is worthy of the top products. The owner has to make that call. Every job in this profession is a judgment call . All I will say is that if you play chemical engineer it will eventually bite you. Ask the guys who rebuild their carb with the discount house China kits/gaskets and then post on YT why their carb leaks and still doesn't idle well. I've said it before on here , if you learn how to prep , set your equipment and paint properly , you can make JD Green enamel without hardner or clear look like a show car. On the other hand , you can use all the hi tech products and still end up with a mess. You can't buy quallity with money alone. RB
 
(quoted from post at 19:53:50 05/07/13) I have read it throuigh and will condense it a little for clarity. Clear cote , in any brand , was designed to be applied wet on wet, meaning a chemical bond as apposed to a mechanical (sand scratches) over a "compatible" base. It was never designed as a stand alone coating to spray over anything , old or new , after being sanded first for adhesion. Anyone can play the mix and match game and some will win and others will do something a little different or "cheat" a little and end up paying for it later. Every Tom Dick and Harry in the chemical bussiness markets a generic economy brand of clear and also hardners. Bottom line is this , you can apply anything over anything and add any hardner to anyones enamel/urethane.Does anyone ever wonder why JD or CIH don't have clear and hardner on the shelf with their paint along with detailed instructions on how to use it??? It's called "liability" or in this case lack of it. Has anyone ever read the label on automotive paint? It says " for professional use only , not intended for sale to the general public" Again " liability" because they know people will "cheat" to save a dime and they will not be held liable for it. Is this the way you did all the rest of the prep and mechanical work on your tractor restoration?? Why are you so willing to pi$$ it all away to save a few dollars after all that work. I'm not saying every tractor project is worthy of the top products. The owner has to make that call. Every job in this profession is a judgment call . All I will say is that if you play chemical engineer it will eventually bite you. Ask the guys who rebuild their carb with the discount house China kits/gaskets and then post on YT why their carb leaks and still doesn't idle well. I've said it before on here , if you learn how to prep , set your equipment and paint properly , you can make JD Green enamel without hardner or clear look like a show car. On the other hand , you can use all the hi tech products and still end up with a mess. You can't buy quallity with money alone. RB

Don't put cheap paint over a 50 hour prep job and don't put expensive paint over a five hour prep job.
 

A tractor with ANY high dollar, high gloss paint job is NOT a restored tractor. It IS a customized tractor, and should NEVER be considered as a restored, factory original. More often than not those high dollar paint jobs are not even the correct color.

It's your tractor, do with it as you please, but DON'T try to pass it off as "restored"
 
With all due respect for your opinion, Rusty , can it be "considered a restored factory original" with replacement tires? They are made of a higher tech construction and chemicals than the originals. Same could be said about the fluids in the tractor. NO green antifreeze or multi visc. lubricants or synthetics. Oh ! and in the case of those nice new / recovered steering wheels and seat cussions , that's NOT the old original crap that rubbed off black on your hands and cracked in a year or two like original? We won't even get into belts , hoses and radiators etc, Could it be said , then , that there are probably NO "restored" tractors out there? Not trying to start an arguement. I respect the opinions of all on here. RB
 
(quoted from post at 07:48:50 05/08/13) With all due respect for your opinion, Rusty , can it be "considered a restored factory original" with replacement tires? They are made of a higher tech construction and chemicals than the originals. Same could be said about the fluids in the tractor. NO green antifreeze or multi visc. lubricants or synthetics. Oh ! and in the case of those nice new / recovered steering wheels and seat cussions , that's NOT the old original crap that rubbed off black on your hands and cracked in a year or two like original? We won't even get into belts , hoses and radiators etc, Could it be said , then , that there are probably NO "restored" tractors out there? Not trying to start an arguement. I respect the opinions of all on here. RB

If the replacement parts are what the original manufacturer offered as a repair part, or performance upgrade, then yes, it would be considered a correct restoration.

Example. If the Farmall H was still being produced today, you can bet the engine oil from the factory would be a multi-weight such as 15w-40, but the paint would probably still be an alkyd enamel, very similar to original.
 
(quoted from post at 07:05:42 05/08/13)
A tractor with ANY high dollar, high gloss paint job is NOT a restored tractor. It IS a customized tractor, and should NEVER be considered as a restored, factory original. More often than not those high dollar paint jobs are not even the correct color.

It's your tractor, do with it as you please, but DON'T try to pass it off as "restored"

You can have your opinion Rusty, but most of the world is going to look at it as an eye pleasing upgrade as opposed to trying to pass off.
Observe correct colors
17415.jpg
 
There are no tractor manufacturers today using alkyd enamel and if any did (even if they still built "H",s) they wouldn't be in bussiness long. The point is , everyone,s priority as to what is an update and what is "close enough" to original is different. Put enough "rules" on any hobby and it will smother and die eventually. RB
 
So what does say CIH,JD etc spray on their equipment? The last new baler I got in 2006 still was Enamel based stuff.
 
Rusty, you are too technical. I intend my painting to be better than the original, I have no interest in painting it the way it came from the factory. As for the original colors, IH does not sell IH 50 any more, and PPG 70019 and DuPont 7410 among others are not the correct colors either. They have been lost over the years, mainly because the formulation has changed because of environmental concerns. Anyone who knows anything about tractors knows that the so called restorations are not really restorations, mainly because ALL the worn parts have not been replaced. I use restored as a term that means the tractor has been gone thru and all the questionable parts replaced. No one is going to replace everything in the tractor. As far as it being "glossier" than from the factory, criticism of that is being a little ridiculous, as the owner has tried to do his best work and not do the hurry up job the factory did. I hope you aren't calling your red and yellow H "restored".
 
This may be the wrong term as I am not familiar with the process, but I think it is some sort of an "electrostatic" thing on the tractors, the implements may well have cheap paint on them, I don't know. But the paint the dealer sells to repaint the tractors is not what is used in the factory. The implements may have acrylic enamel on them, which is better than alkyd, but from what I have seen, it is probably applied without primer and doesn't last long.
 
(quoted from post at 19:52:29 05/08/13) Rusty, you are too technical. I intend my painting to be better than the original, I have no interest in painting it the way it came from the factory. As for the original colors, IH does not sell IH 50 any more, and PPG 70019 and DuPont 7410 among others are not the correct colors either. They have been lost over the years, mainly because the formulation has changed because of environmental concerns. Anyone who knows anything about tractors knows that the so called restorations are not really restorations, mainly because ALL the worn parts have not been replaced. I use restored as a term that means the tractor has been gone thru and all the questionable parts replaced. No one is going to replace everything in the tractor. As far as it being "glossier" than from the factory, criticism of that is being a little ridiculous, as the owner has tried to do his best work and not do the hurry up job the factory did. I hope you aren't calling your red and yellow H "restored".

I do not refer to any of my tractors as "restored". I have done what was needed to make them fully functional once again, and to preserve a part of our history.

And for what it's worth, there are a whole lot more tractors out there wearing paint jobs that are plain and simple than there are wearing those high dollar, glossy paint jobs. You just don't see the plain ones, because very seldom do those tractors go to shows.
 
They won't see mine either, because there aren't many shows out here. I did take one to North Platte, NE several years ago, you probably know him because he complained that it had been buffed.
 
I have used Ace Hdwe Rust Stop paint and Valspar alkyd enamel hardener on the sheet metal for winter time cars. It relies on mechanical grip for both the alkyd enamel and urethane clear. I wait one day between coats,2 color and 2 clear. I had one start to de laminate after 10-12 years.
I don't know how it would work on the cast iron
but problems would not surprise me due to lack of mechanical grip.
 
Referring to tractors only here , there are at least 3 different processes involved depending on the parts being done , from powder coat to electrostatically applied 2 component urethane to thermoformed color matched plastic composites to non- electrostatically applied urethanes on plastic composites. Implements , depending on what they are , more than likely get a 2 component lower grade urethane and quite possibly on tillage equipment , direct to metal. Our 120,000 lb , 50' long , 12' high whole tree chippers/grinders we built and painted with a 2k acrylic urethane in orange over a 2k urethane primer. The paint cost is $45 per sprayable gal. and the primer $35. No it wasn't from the top 5 suppliers. It came from a company that makes their own paint from scratch with a full test lab and plenty of militaly accounts. There are a lot of levels of quallity even with a urethane paint. Alkyds and even acrylic enamels won't even meet the VOC regulations for corporate use and most don't even make it anymore.
 
Sprayed enamel with hardner on 5088 sheetmetal ,color sanded and cleared with ppg automotive clear ,still looks good .

Clear wont stay on enamel wet on wet ,it will de-laminate eventually
 

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