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Discussion Forum

"20/20" Paint Job and Fender Repair Questions...

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Tom in MO

10-12-2012 06:59:32
64.136.27.164



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I recently bought a 1950 Ferguson TO-20 at auction, and I'm planning to give it a "20/20" (as seen on this site) brush/roller paint job, back to the original Ferguson Grey.

How do you treat the underside of the hood, inside the wings and grille, backside of the dash, etc? Paint? Primer? Nothing? (Mine are in pretty good shape -no rust on the inside, just dirt and grime.)

Also, is it worth trying to take dents out of fender, and repair holes? (Or, more likely, having a body shop do it.) I removed a tool box that had been bolted on one of the fenders, and there was a crack around one of the bolt holes. There's also a two-inch gash in the other fender, where it looks like something had been bolted on, then torn off.

Finally, the backs of both fenders are dented, where it looks like somebody backed into something.
I know that after-market replacement fenders are available, but I've read about fit/quality issues with the replacements, as well as the challenge of getting the bolts out.

I'm not trying to make a show tractor, just clean it up a bit.

Thanks for any advice.

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Tom in MO

10-21-2012 12:03:01
64.136.27.163



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 Re: Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
Thanks for all the advice (and pix). I'm not sure exactly which way I'll go, but for now, I'm just doing a few little things.

First I gotta git me some more tools, so a trip to Harbor Freight is in order!



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Tom in MO

10-19-2012 14:17:02
64.136.27.161



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 Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
Thanks, Jason and Stephen.

It looks like I"m going to learn how to do body work! (Are there any good books you can recommend?)



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Stephen Newell

10-20-2012 20:12:23
66.53.83.110



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 Re: Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-19-2012 14:17:02  
I don't think you need books. There are several of us here that will help you with the body work and painting. I would start with hammering out the fenders to as close to the final shape as you can. Then I would either sandblast all of the paint off or use a disc sander to remove it. There is a lot of rust on the fenders and surely some under the paint that you don't see so I would take it all the way down to bare metal. Then I would have a welder repair the tears if you don't weld yourself. Then after it has been stripped, welded and hammered out, I would prime it with epoxy primer with a couple of coats. The epoxy primer will have a recoat window so you will have something like three days to paint it or prime it again. Just get a specification sheet with the primer and stick to the directions. I like to use epoxy on the body first before the body work to seal the metal for rust prevention. When you use a body filler its better to put it on in layers building the shape rather than putting a big blob of bondo on it. You probably will have to bondo it and sand it a couple of time before you get it to the shape you want. Try not to sand the epoxy primer as you will need to spray it again if you are going to put more body filler on the spot. Once you get the fenders like you like them I would prime them again with epoxy primer again. Now there will likely be minor defects in the body work you didn't know were there until you started priming. If it is minor you can use a filler primer over the epoxy primer for the purpose of sanding. Epoxy primers don't sand well so you shouldn't try it. Just make sure the filler primer is compatible with the epoxy primer and the topcoat you plan to use. I normally use Evercoat Featherfil for the filler primer. After using it there is no recoat window and you can work it as you please. You can put several coats of it on sanding between coats to level the finish to your pleasing. You can also wet sand the Featherfil and with the primer wet you will get a better picture of what it would look like with the topcoat on. If your a perfectionist we can tell you how to use guide coat to help find any final defects. Once you get the finish level then you would be ready for your topcoat.

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glennster

10-19-2012 14:59:37
75.57.134.154



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 Re: Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-19-2012 14:17:02  
get a set of auto body hammers and dolleys to shrink or stretch the metal as necessary. harbor freight has a set for 30 dollars. a good set will run you 300 dollars easy, but for a beginner, these will work fine.you tube has quite a few videos on using the tools.



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Stephen Newell

10-19-2012 04:18:16
66.53.82.177



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 Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
Before you order replacement fenders I would try to hammer the old ones out yourself. You can just lay them on a slab of concrete and take a common hammer and hammer the dents out. Where the one finder is torn you could hammer the metal back in place and have a welder mend it, possibly welding a piece of sheet metal over it. Then it can be floated out with body filler.



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Tom in MO

10-18-2012 16:42:33
174.253.132.212



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 Re: "20/20" Paint Job and Fender Repair Questions. in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
I visited with my local auto body man today: he says he can improve the looks of the hood, and fabricate a piece for the bottom of the grill, BUT: the fenders aren't worth trying to fix, and I should get replacements.

Here are a few pix. Please take a look, and feel free to share any ideas.

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Dick L

10-20-2012 14:31:37
50.51.164.202



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 Re: Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-18-2012 16:42:33  
Actually the fender is not all that hard to fix. you would need to cut out the cracks and holes and weld in patches. The bent part should hammer out well.

I start to take step by step pictures and then get lazy and forget to take out the camera. The fender is on the tractor now.

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showcrop

10-20-2012 17:10:02
75.67.231.80



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 Re: Re: in reply to Dick L, 10-20-2012 14:31:37  
Quoting Removed, click Modern View to see

Dick L, I do very little body work myself. A friend told me recently that body shops now will frequently glue a panel patch or hole cover instead of welding. I can see many advantages, provided you get all of the rust out first. With glue in there it would leave no place for moisture to get in between pieces and you don't get the expansion that you get from the heat of welding. Is glue in use for body work now?

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Dick L

10-21-2012 05:13:34
50.51.164.202



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 Re: Re: in reply to showcrop, 10-20-2012 17:10:02  
Might have been a better example.

I like doing it this way to keep the back side as smooth as the front. Also once it is repaired it does not show where the repair was made. I stitch weld and don't get in a hurry. I make a few stitches and work on something else for a bit. When I flub up I cut it out and put in a bigger patch.

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Jason S.

10-20-2012 17:49:40
174.252.152.82



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 Re: Re: in reply to showcrop, 10-20-2012 17:10:02  
Yes...body shops use panel adhesive quite extensively now. Anywhere from patching panels to glueing complete bedsides in. Personally I do like it for the reason that you mentioned that it forms a complete seal against moisture. If you are worried about strength, I have seen it tested. They glued two pieces of metal together with it and then clamped it between to pulling towers on a frame machine and tried to pull it apart. The metal tore apart but the joint where it was glued didn"t. On a side note..if you get it on a pair of vise grips..the only way to get it to turn loose is with a torch. Don"t ask me how I know...lol

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Jason S.

10-18-2012 18:58:28
174.252.149.87



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 Re: Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-18-2012 16:42:33  
Those fenders aren"t that bad at all....I don"t see anything that a welder...a couple of hammers and dollies and a half a day"s time couldn"t have looking pretty good. If you were close to me I"d do it for you just to save some original fenders.



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El Toro

10-17-2012 17:31:59
108.3.143.30



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 Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
Buy yourself a spray gun. It will put paint where a brush and roller won't. If you decide to paint it use a good grade of primer and at least use acrylic enamel. It won't be cheap, but you will like the results. Preparation is the hardest part. Hal



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CNKS

10-13-2012 07:28:16
216.144.104.128



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 Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
I agree with the others, either do it right or leave it alone. You are not going to get much out of a roller paint job.



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Stephen Newell

10-13-2012 05:19:33
66.53.82.79



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 Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
I believe I would either do a full restoration on the tractor of leave it like it is. Since you are asking about body work I get the impression you would rather fix the tractor up nice. There are a few autopaint guys here that would be more than happy to walk you through the project if you choose to do it. I have done enough auto painting I could help you also. I can also give you the site address of a auto paint forum that has several autobody guys that would help you.

Whatever the type of work you do on the tractor, be sure to thoroughly clean the oil and grease off the tractor. The slightest memory of oil will have the paint pealing off so I would spend days just cutting the oil before anything was done. Some places will take oven cleaner to cut it. Purple power is a good product and I also use Krud Cutter Gloss Off from Sherwin Williams and a power washer.

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Jason S.

10-12-2012 08:19:06
174.252.147.3



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 Re: in reply to Tom in MO, 10-12-2012 06:59:32  
Originally they were pained gray all over, under the hood and etc... Personally I would take the time to fix the fenders. They don't have to be perfect unless you are doing a show tractor. I would rather see a few hammer marks than to see a slick looking poor fitting after market set on it. But that's my opinion.



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