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Discussion Forum

Re: painting question

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07-03-2012 19:10:24

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Mark, I have two tractors that had their sheet metal prepped and painted by pro body guys with their own shops. Both took the pieces down to bare metal with DAs, then primed and painted. Both tractors looked good for about four years, then the paint on both started to bubble at places where there had been little pits in the metal, where the paint had worn a way first, like right in front of the five speed shifter on my 960. Soon after I was sandblasting and painting the body on my dump truck myself. The counter guy at the paint jobber told me that I needed acid wash. Looking into it I found out that little bits of rust will be left down in the rust pits in flat steel or cast iron, and even with epoxy or etching primer, they will slowly enlarge until they bubble up. Phosphoric acid converts rust to iron phosphate which is a strong, inert black film. The product instructions tell you to keep the surface wet with the product for ten minutes, then wash it off, I do this by tossing small parts in a bucket of water and spraying larger parts with a hose stream. A little brushing is good too. After it dries if there is any of that "white residue" another acid application will dissolve it, followed by a little better rinse. The rinse is followed by wiping with the final prep product. If you plan to sell within three years, or you can check pits and depressions in cast iron microscopically for remaining rust and there is none, then you can skip the acid wash. I will never skip it again though, on anything with rust on it.

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07-04-2012 06:38:53

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 Re: painting question in reply to showcrop, 07-03-2012 19:10:24  
Showcrop, my point is that Picklex 20 will do everything that you say. You can brush it on and forget about it until you are ready to paint, then scuff it with a scothbrite pad and remove most of the rest of the white residue with wax and grease remover. The instructions say it can be painted over, but I don't paint over residue, which is one reason I don't use true rust converters. Picklex is expensive but it goes a LONG way. I was told about it 10 years ago by a long term painter, who told me to forget metal prep, which is about the same as what you are using. I used Picklex over a sanded and mostly clean hood also 10 years ago. There was some residual rust I could not sand out, before I started using the fiber wheel. The rust was neutralized. I have never seen rust bubble on anything because there is no rust when I paint. Pro body guys (I will exclude B Maniac and Glennster, because they know what they are talking about) are for the most part "shortcut guys" who want to get done and make money off someone else. I can prepare surfaces better than they do because I take the time to do it right. Don't take me wrong, there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, it just takes more time, and you have to be sure the surface is absolutely dry, with Picklex you don't have to do that. It appears that I am going to tell people what I do, you are going to say what you do, so on this forum that "conflict" is always going to be here -- so be it. Done properly they both work.

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07-06-2012 17:26:19

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 Re: painting question in reply to CNKS, 07-04-2012 06:38:53  
( thanks for the compliment,CNKS).

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07-04-2012 10:37:51

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 Re: painting question in reply to CNKS, 07-04-2012 06:38:53  
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CNKS, You have I believe mentioned a few times that you are in Arizona. Here in NH it seems nothing ever gets really dry without a little help. So rust, and thus pits, thrive. A few years ago I took a'67 car down from a storage rack after not looking at it for maybe three years and found a damp place under a floor mat despite the dry air of three winters. Perhaps the climate difference has to do with our different observations. I am never pressed for time with my hobby work so I can take the time to let the iron phosphate dry completely.

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07-04-2012 15:13:16

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 Re: painting question in reply to showcrop, 07-04-2012 10:37:51  
I'm in southwest Kansas, not as dry as as Arizona. Maybe 5 inches of rain so far this year, 18 average/year, daytime humidity 10-20% can be 100% early in the morning but it doesn't last. You have high humidity in NH, plus salt air, you do have to take more precautions. Although I mention it, I seldom see the need for phosphoric acid, Picklex included. As to Picklex, I only use it in out of the way places I simply cannot get to. I am not going to wash off anything close to the time I paint. It is not the Fe phosphate it is the flash rust that happens immediately when water is used in NH, KS, AZ and anyplace else. Picklex does not need to be washed off, thus no flash rust to contend with. It will prevent rust from forming for months as long as it is inside. In your case, with the salt air even Picklex needs to be watched. We really don't disagree, it is just how each of us gets there.

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