enamal hardener

OK, so I have read all the pros/cons/do/don't on mixing enamel hardener w/ JD house enamel. The argument to not mix chemistries, etc. However, have seen plenty of tractors that do it, with good results. Plus it fits my $$. My question is to those who have done it:
Did you add hardener to paint that is painted on ALL parts, or sheet metal only?

I don't know why you are asking that unless you don't use supplied air and are trying to avoid getting sick from the iso's. For alkyd enamel, although gloss is improved by using hardener, it probably doesn't have as much effect on the cast. It will fade anyway and hardener will not prevent fading. It may make it shinier to begin with, so that side by side, using hardener will appear to last longer.

Why would you want your "cast" to age at a different rate than your sheet metal? By aging I don't just mean losing it's shine but also changing color. The catylist used in synthetic enamel doesn't make it shine any more. It only chemically cures the paint quicker and more thoroughly (allegedly) I don't know of any synthetic enamel that was ever chemically engineered to be used with and/or improved by the use of a catylist. Any paint I know of that requires the use of a catylist(which includes most all "good" paints)will not even cure and take forever to even dry without the cat. Look up the word "catylist" and forget the word "hardner" , you will be better off. As far as people "getting away" with it,,, some get away with breathing isocyanates too and riding motorcycles without helmets etc,etc.

so, then what do you recommend, precisely?

If you use it, use it on all -- as B said you aren't going to improve it much with catalyst, anyway, and the quality of the job will degrade at the same speed, if all done alike, with or without catalyst. If you don't use supplied air and you use catalyst you are asking for trouble. And, you are not going to get a more lasting finish by adding hardener to paint that was designed 70+ years ago. Others will defend alkyd enamel, ok with me, if they like it, it is also ok with me. To each his own. Only my opinion.

Hi Jon;

To answer your question as to recommendations, you need to decide 1. How much money you want to spend; 2. What you want to use your tractor for. If it'd a working tractor do you need to spend the money on show quality paint? 3. Do you want your paint job to last longer? 4. Do you have the equipment needed to spray paints with isocyanates. (cost of supplied air is about $350 to $400)

If you are going to use it as a working tractor, go with the JD paint and don't worry about the hardner. Keep it clean, waxed and out of the sunlight when not in use.

If you want a good durable paint at medium cost, PPG's Omni line of acrylic urethane will work well and the shine will last longer. Like all paint it needs to be taken care of to last. The draw back is the isocyanates and required supplied air system.

If you want to spend more money, you can go to a top of the line paint.

Some guys who do show tractors will use the JD paint, but they keep it in the shed most of the time and don't have to worry about fading.

Hope this helps.

First of all , I hope you know I'm not trying to be a "but-head" about this but just to help educate. If you want to use the old enamels then just use them as the directions say.I have never seen in the classic JD green sold at JD dealer any mention of adding catylist and have never seen a JD catylist on the shelf along side their paint. All paint if sprayed properly will shine like glass when sprayed. The older tech. paints just won't stay looking that way as long depending on the environmental conditions the tractor is subjected to.(ie hot sun,temp extremes etc.)If you want the advantages that hi tech paints give then you must use a system ,including the catylist if called for,to achieve this. What some do is akin to taking an old tech non-detergent oil and then going out and buying all kinds of generic additives to try and "make" it perform like a modern full synthetic lubricant. You surely don't "mix up" your own hi-tech oil at home based on what others have done and use it in your high priced truck.Seriously , the old synthetic enamels are just fine and look nice when sprayed properly. Just know the limitations they carry. A lot you see on here is probably over-kill for a tractor but some of us are just "that way".But there have been several posts on here from people who went "low tech" and weren't happy after it's limits started showing their ugly heads and were looking for help about what to do now. Bottom line is you need to be honest with yourself about what you want V/S what you need and what you have to spend and then commit to be happy with the result. It ain't no fun doing it over. Good luck whichever you choose.

Glen,

I'm between work her and show her. I've got it this far, and far apart, i'm going to do it right. I'd rather spend money on something that will last and endure over saving a couple hundred bucks and be displeased after its all said and done. supplied air for painting iso's, got it.

She will work. she will spend an occassional night outside. but tractors around our place, whether old or new stay in the shed. cars may stay outside - scratch that, my trucks will stay outside (wife's car lives in the garage). But I also want to take her to an occasional parade or show.

She won't be a trailer queen though. I'm about ready to just use the JD house stuff, with nothing else added. I know the paint will have a higher likelyhood of matching, can to can, than someone tinkering with tints at the paint store. That 70 year old technology, although it may fade, sticks! i'd rather have faded green and no rust.

For a 44 b, what would an approximate amount of green paint to get. If I go with something besides the JD house paint, I want to get it all mixed at one time. So, with all parts, a solid 4 coats of paint, plus cleanup and spills, would 4 gallons of total mix get it? Too high, too little? Thanks

One gallon, or at most 5 quarts will probably do it. That is for the green. A quart should do the wheels. If you use a major paint dealer, DuPont or PPG, the likelyhood of a mistake in mixing, although possible is unlikely. You will use more paint if you completely strip the tractor and paint all parts separately. You say 4 coats, you should need only 3. PPG Omni will cover in 2 if you are a good painter, I'm not. I would have a gallon mixed, and then see if you need more. The mix for PPG Omni is 4:1:1, 4 paint 1 reducer and 1 catalyst (ISO's). You should use Omni MP 170 epoxy on everything 1:1 (catalyst does not contain isos), then MP 182 sandable surfacer over the epoxy on the sheet metal (catalyst DOES contain isos), then topcoat with MTK acryic urethane. Cost will probably be about $350-$400. If you want to spend a LOT of money B maniac can tell you what to use in the PPG concept line. Or you can use one of DuPonts lines. READ THE SPEC SHEETS BEFORE USING, and mix exactly according to instructions.

Guys,

I certainly appreciate all the input. I got some work to do. Thanks again.

Note: If you have an Asthma condition--do not use hardner! Especially if you don't have the air-supply breathing mask system! Even if you do, it can and will affect your breathing badly! The regular, un-hardened enamels sold to day will hold up wel. Tractors didn't have hardener in the paint back then. Letting them sit out in the sun for years did the trick!

Alright guys,

Again thanks for all the suggestions. I just found out that a buddy of mine can get DuPont Nason single stage urethane for a great price. So...looks like DuPont it is. I was on the fence, didn"t want to spend money that wasn"t necessary, but sounds like the consensus is for longevity and durability while retaining gloss is the newer technology paint. Pulled DuPont Paint codes 262 for green, and 263 for yellow. Anyone have any conflicting experiences?

Good reply.Charles

John deere dealers have a hardner for the classic green on the shelve next to the paint