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Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

Perkins with blow-by problem

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Fred Whittaker

05-01-2006 10:03:15
70.62.6.210



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We finished overhauling our 1855 w/ a 6-354 turboed perkins recently (sleeves, pistons, rings, bearings, reman head and valves). It ran great, but yesterday after making a trip to the other farm and back, I noticed it was pushing oil out the dipstick. It also seemed like a larger volume of air was coming out of the breather tube. After further inspection, I noticed the there was a bubbling along most of the length of the head at the head gasket. It was on the side opposite of the injector pump. Could it possibly be a blown head gasket causing the excess blow-by? I hadn't retorqued the head bolts yet, that was next on my list (even before I noticed the blow-by). Any suggestions? Recommendation?

Thanks

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GR Ohio

05-13-2006 07:59:29
172.167.110.99



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 10:03:15  
We have an 1850 which we have put 2 head gaskets on in the last year. The first was a year ago and we needed it in the field so we didn't have time to get any head work done on it. It blew out the right side when it got hot. So this winter we took the head off and had it surfaced which it needed. The old head gasket had de-laminated (we couldn't find any place where it had any defects between the head and the gasket or the block and the gasket but the layers of the gasket were seperated in different places) this gasket was the copper one. The 1st one blew after 5000 hrs. and blew the web out between the 5th and 6th cylinders. The one we put in this winter after having the head surfaced and checking the block (still in tractor) and properly torqueing bolts after running tractor blew after only 15 hours and the tractor sounds ok until it gets up to operating temp and then is has alot of blow by and sounds rough. Is it possible to get any of the older style head gaskets anywhere? I've been asking around and some other people have said they've had problems getting the copper head gaskets to seal up if both surfaces aren't fresh. Any help would be appreciated!!

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newter haven

05-03-2006 20:12:09
64.251.158.68



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 10:03:15  
Wow, what a beating! Mr. Schwiebert will be able to help you, e-mail him or call him, he's been great help with my projects, not to say everyone else's suggestions haven't helped. We had problems with our 1955 blowing head gaskets found out it was protrusion not high enough fixed that and everything was fine. The darn thing blew a gasket once a year till that was fixed. Have two tractors now with the Perkins motor love them both - good luck!

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Fred Whittaker

05-02-2006 04:26:04
70.62.6.210



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 10:03:15  
I would like to say thanks to everyone for their input. Everyone that responded to my question has been very helpful. Cylinder head will be removed this weekend. I will post the results of my findings.

Thanks Again



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Bradshaw

05-02-2006 01:18:13
138.64.8.54



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 10:03:15  
sounds like Fred DOESNT KNOW WHAT HES DOING....



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Fred Whittaker

05-02-2006 04:13:27
70.62.6.210



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Bradshaw, 05-02-2006 01:18:13  
Remember this board is to help people with the questions that they have. Not a place for people to make sarcasic remarks and cause trouble. All of the other people who have responded, have all tried to help. And I am very thankful to them. You on the other hand, are just causing trouble. So my advice to you is to GROW UP!



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bradk

05-01-2006 18:33:13
209.240.224.217



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 10:03:15  
I've heard of similar problem (not Perkins) where the ring gaps line up on rebuilt engines.Could explain the blow-by,but the bubbling ? Is excessive turbo boost causing this ? ~brad



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RAB

05-01-2006 10:23:58
195.93.21.3



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 10:03:15  
Probably have to do the head gasket again. A bit more care next time. You might be lucky, but I wouldn"t hold my breath.
RAB



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Fred Whittaker

05-01-2006 11:42:48
70.62.6.210



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to RAB, 05-01-2006 10:23:58  
The engine probrably hasn't ran more that 5 minutes since the blow-by was noticed, and the it probrably doesn't have more that 3 or 4 hours, since the overhaul. On a second note, extreme care was taken in puting it together, and the engine does need to be ran prior to retorqued. My concern is that we had been given a warped head. I have seen many perkins engines put together without even being retorqued and last through years of abuse and not do this.

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J Schwiebert

05-02-2006 05:45:28
209.143.51.206



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 11:42:48  
Answer me this : Since there are at least 5 different head gaskets for 354 Perkins engines which one did you use? Perkins number or gasket manufactures number will be fine. Did you retorque the head after the engine ran the first half hour? Very important What do you have for liner height? How did you clean the studs and nuts and what did you use for a lubricant? Do you have a build number and serial number for the engine?

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Fred Whittaker

05-02-2006 09:37:54
70.62.6.210



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to J Schwiebert, 05-02-2006 05:45:28  
Mr. Schwiebert,

The tractor is currently 2 hours away. I will be back home this weekend to remove the head. So, I can provide you with the gasket number after I return home. The head had not been retorqued yet. I had planned on retorquing the bolts following my trip to the other farm to get the chisel plow. I wanted to retorque them prior to plowing. However, it was when I had just gotten back from picking up the plow, that I had noticed the blow-by and bubbling. I will have to get the liner height this weekend also. The number stamped on the block below the injector pump is: 354UA20739TL.

Thank you

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RAB

05-01-2006 14:58:58
195.93.21.3



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 11:42:48  
Fred,
Yeah, they all have yield-point cylinder bolts now, so re-torque is not needed; just new bolts.
I note you said "extreme care was taken".
That in my book would mean checking for straightness before assembling.
Running up for re-torque is one thing. Running hard with full turbo boost is another.
It should have been put to work, to start to bed in all the components, in that running time. Follow the workshop manual directions at all times.
RAB

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Fred Whittaker

05-02-2006 04:40:05
70.62.6.210



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to RAB, 05-01-2006 14:58:58  
I'm not trying to caused a heated debate. Just trying relay the fact that I have experience working on these, and do follow the shop manual when working on them. I would like to thank you for your input on the question. You have been very helpful.

Thanks Again



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Fred Whittaker

05-01-2006 17:14:57
24.95.65.238



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to RAB, 05-01-2006 14:58:58  
When you pay that kinda money for a reconditioned head, you should not have to check for straightness. The final trip to the other farm was to remove the cab and get the tillage equipment, so that I could put it to work. The book was followed. We have put together many perkins engines and have not had any problems of this nature. If I wanted to mess around with the head, I would have bought an old head and the equipment to do it myself. When you buy an engine that has supposedly been rebuilt, you don't tear it apart before you use it and check bearing thickness do you? NO. And you shouldn't have to. You shouldn't have to check straightness of the head either, if is being sold as remanfactured and tested. If you are buying it as used, just off an engine, then yes, it needs checked. In reality, the total run time was more like 2 hours. Care was taken in assembly. All surfaces were clean. Gasket was put on with the correct orientation. And all of the bolts were torqued. I checked them all 3 times.

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Don-Wi

05-01-2006 20:42:19
152.163.100.132



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Fred Whittaker, 05-01-2006 17:14:57  
I hate to get in the middle of what seems to be a heated argument, but.... Is it possible that the person who did the head has a bad square? Non the less I would have checked it if it were my engine. It doesn't take much time to do so and now it may or may not be the cause for some major headaches.

"Shouldn't have to" can get a guy in steep trouble really fast. If I worked all the time with that attitude, I would have been fired a long time ago.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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Fred Whittaker

05-02-2006 04:35:23
70.62.6.210



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Don-Wi, 05-01-2006 20:42:19  
I hope he doesn't have a bad square. Be a lot of angry people out there. All joking aside, I see your point. Trust me, when the head comes off, it will be checked. If it is the head (which I obviously hope that it isn't, and just a head gasket) I will post and let everyone know where it came from to beware.

Thanks Again



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AB

05-01-2006 22:59:35
216.135.27.213



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to Don-Wi, 05-01-2006 20:42:19  
Hey Don, didn't you suspect a blown head gasket on the 1600 a while back. I don't remember what you found out on it. I had a blown head gasket on my 1650 too but the head had never been off it. When I overhauled it the head was measured within spec's. I reckon 40 years and acidic radiator fluid took it's toll on my gasket.



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Don-Wi

05-02-2006 19:37:28
152.163.100.132



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to AB, 05-01-2006 22:59:35  
Yup, it was a blown gasket. I never got around to re-tourquing it the first time. Learned my lesson after spending a whole day in a dirt floor shed taking the head off, cleaning all the gasket material off with a sharp scraper, brake cleaner, and scotch brite. I'm thinking that our 285's head gasket is out too, but it just pi$$es oil down the block, no water in oil or oil in water.
Donovan from Wisconsin

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evielboweviel

05-02-2006 02:53:45
65.24.181.184



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 Re: Perkins with blow-by problem in reply to AB, 05-01-2006 22:59:35  
head gasket blowed on my 1650 when plowing this was the first hard work on that tractor since my uncle had it rebuilt 10 years before. He started using ether to start it and I think that was the problem. The head was flat, the liners were in spec for protrusion etc. Replaced it, plowed about 20 acres and now it dosn't need ether to start. Of course the new 2/0 battery cables had nothing to do with it as the old ones with green crap in the wires and clamp on ends were just fine
Ron

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