1855 - 310T engine timing adv. / black smoke issues

jasinpa

Member
do you guys think it would hurt a fresh & totally updated 310T engine to run at the original 4 deg. timing advance , cant seem to get this engine to quit smoking black , gave it some (maybe 2 deg.if flywheel mark is correct still just a guess what actual advance im at ) advance did clear it up some , would like to go 4 deg. & see what happens smoke wise, is it safe to leave it there at 4 degs. if it clears up black smoke? thinking of getting a diesel adapter for timming light. can the mark be off in the pump i just had rebuilt? how far do you have to go on flywheel to = 1 deg. ? Also someone had commented a 5.9 (6BT) cummins turbo will work on this engine , does anyone have exsperience doing this turbo swap?
 
static pump timing is supposed to be 4 degrees btdc which is 1/2 inch before the tdc mark, the pump has a timing advance to take it from there, the TO4 is enough turbo for a 310 to make rated power, did you test and or replace the injectors? My 1955 smoked lightly under load and made 120hp on the dyno.
 
My 1855 runs good but smokes like that. It's bare bones stock set at tdc. I often wonder if the pump timing and or cam timing is correct. Both are set correctly to the factory marks but I put a different flywheel and the later revision cam in. I never thought to make sure the marks were accurate when I put it together. What makes me wonder now is a friend of mine was working on a 1750 and had to change the cam gear. Found out the timing marks were different from one gear to the next in relation to the cam. Mine has every update and a few extras done to it. I do have a A&I replacement turbo on it maybe that makes a difference as well? They put out that bulletin for a reason. I would be very reluctant to advance the pump any provided the marks are correct. Attached is the service bulletin for the timing if it works.
 
You could try and advance it to test your theory, but if it rattles a lot change it back. I would plumb a boost gauge into the intake and see what the pressure is. I just don't think you have enough boost. What part of PA are you from? I have access to a diesel timing adapter if you're close by. Curious what pistons you used. I wonder if they are the correct compression ratio and design from what you took out. Does the tractor seem to have lots of power or not. Are the timing marks on the cam and crank aligned? I know our 1750 with pump maxed out barely smokes under load with the pump maxed out around 170 hp. It has a M&W turbo on it for years.
 
pistons i used matched the one taken out kit came from agkits , also the deck was surfaced , when i installed pistons/rods i had around .015 clearance between piston & head , this is a good guess because dont really know what the gasket will crush down too , shop was worred about piston clearance because block was decked hard over it life , havent hooked it to any equipment yet , but in high gear / overdrive , pulling hills on the road it has loads of power ,it will over power the new brakes also in high gear.
 
yes injectors were tested , shop said there usable but opening press is at min. spec. but i shouldnt have a problem with them , same shop rebuilt pump @ that time also
 
just to clearify a little , engine starts very easy , runs great , will smoke a little at idle 650 - 700 rpm ,clears out @ 900 rpm, when at operating speed 1800 to 2400 rpm @ temp it runs fairly clean little smoke , power seems good but hasnt been hooked to any equipment yet , so i know it hard to judge power on 100 horses without pulling something in the field but in high gear dragging brakes hard it will pull but black smoke will roll , dont have a clue if or when any cam or timing gears where update, cam lobes measured within spec. when i had it apart , valve recess is at max. updated spec., my original turbo was rebuilt because the replacement one was not the same size , tryed a replacement and it would make engine smoke like crazy so shop took it back & rebuilt mine ( TO4B Garret) , so basicly every part on this engine is the original parts it had before overhaul , the only reason for the overhaul was a blown head gasket which caused deck wear on the block side , needed surfaced . befor head gasket blown out it ran good , maybe im just worried about something that isnt really wrong , but in my head the only thing that could be causing the black smoke is the timing, pump over fueling or if the turbo would have the wrong parts in it , very unlikely because i marked all the housings before having it rebuilt & there still on the rebuilt turbo. i think i will try moving the timing to about the 1/2 inch advance mark & see what happens , with all the updates this engine should have no problem going back to original specs. since the only reason for the update was to reduce rod stress because of the pin bushings & failing rod bolts ,& reduced some heat on the none cooler blocks , mine only has the add on filter cooler & did throw #3 rod out back in the day , but im not going to push it to the limit it now semi retired. i will check boost press. also , thanks for all the input i will post an update
 
Ag kits? Probably reliance brand? This winter A friend of mine ordered reliance brand. At first glance they looked good. Then we were comparing them close up to my Arrow brand and a older set from Agco I had. We found out that the reliance brand pistons are not made correctly. The valve recess in the pistons are too deep and the cup also is too deep/large. There was a few other things as well. Ring design/placement oil holes, ect. He ended up cc ing the pistons. I forget the numbers but it was quite a bit more for the reliance pistons than the other 2. He already had most of them in and the difference was more than enough that they got taken back out. With the arrow pistons and correct head My 1855 will start easily at -10F with out assistance. Found that out by accident. Thought I had it plugged in. Started the tractor and when I went to unplug it I found it wasn't plugged in. I changed the pump this spring to one I had rebuilt with a more sensitive governor trying to hold high idle no load to full load as close to 2400 as possible. I notice it smokes more white grey at idle since the pump change. Use to burn clean at idle before. Still a little black at wot with a bit of a load. Clean with no load.
 
Idle speed should be 800 minimum! While you are checking boost also check transfer pump pressure and pump advance! At your idle speed the transfer pump pressure is low and so your advance probably has not started to function!
 
this tractor no longer has a transfer pump , was updated to gravity feed long befor i owned it , with proper filter change over to do so.
 
The transfer pump is a 4 blade vanepump inside the injection pump and transfer pump pressure move the cam ring for advancing injection timing. Get your idle speed to 800 like it should be so it can function properly.
 

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