Oliver 1650 electrical still, long post

MoMike

Member
I have tested with a multimeter and found I'm getting 12 volts to the ignition post as soon as you turn the key to run position. Is it possible that bad points or condenser is causing this.
I have 12 volts between posts on the battery, 12 volts between cable terminals on the battery, both cables tested fine on resistance, 12 volts between pos. terminal and ground bolt, 12 volts on the battery post on the ignition switch. When I checked with the new starter solenoid ignition post wire disconnected I had 12 volts on the ignition post on the switch, as well as on the solenoid post on the switch thought maybe I misswired the solenoid, switched them no change. Tried jumper wire between starter solenoid solenoid post and solenoid post on switch. No change, put jumper wire on main post to ammeter post, no change. Haven't tried jumper wire between ignition post on solenoid to coil, but plan on trying that. Would not having a resistance wire cause any issues if I tried to start the tractor?
 
I can't quite follow your above message but I looked at your other one.

With the points closed there should be roughly battery voltage at the plus terminal on the coil. There should be 0 volts on the negative side going to the points.

When opening the points with a screwdriver they should spark and the coil should spark if you hold the coil wire close to the block.

The points should also spark when you crank it. I've had an 1800 with an aluminum housing that has lost it's ground and would not spark when cranked. But it would spark when opened with a screwdriver.

If you want to jumper it, go from the battery to the coil. It won't hurt in the the short term. I could be wrong but I don't think most tractors have a resistance to the coil. The coil is the resistance.

RT
 
Looking back over previous posts, are you dealing with a no/weak spark problem or a slow cranking/starter problem?

With a well charged battery you should have at least 12.6 volts on your readings. If only 12.0 volts you have a weak battery

"I have tested with a multimeter and found I'm getting 12 volts to the ignition post as soon as you turn the key to run position. Is it possible that bad points or condenser is causing this."....... Are you referring to Ignition post on switch or Ignition post on start solenoid?... You should see battery voltage at Ignition post on switch.

My diagram for 1650 shows resistance wire from I on switch to coil input, and another wire coming from I on solenoid to same coil post. With points open you should see battery voltage at input to coil and I post on solenoid. Also battery voltage at other coil wire to side of distributor. With points closed you should see about half battery voltage at coil input and I post on solenoid and near zero volts at wire from coil to distributor. When solenoid engages it bypasses resistance wire and supplies full battery voltage to input to coil for hotter starting spark.

" When I checked with the new starter solenoid ignition post wire disconnected I had 12 volts on the ignition post on the switch, as well as on the solenoid post on the switch".......Only time you should see voltage at solenoid/start post on the switch and starter solenoid S post is when you turn the key to start position. This voltage is what activates the solenoid to engage the starter.

" Haven't tried jumper wire between ignition post on solenoid to coil, but plan on trying that. Would not having a resistance wire cause any issues if I tried to start the tractor?".......If you did not change anything with this wire when you originally changed your switch this should not be a problem. Did you change the wire from where you had it on accessory to the I post on switch?
 
When I turn the key into run position I have 12 volts on both ignition posts, starter solenoid as well as switch. It appears to be a starter problem. I did get it fired up a couple of times, enough to move it out of the doorway. I suspect someone in the past rewired this as the small wire (resistance wire) is clamped into the ring terminal on the larger wire that attaches to the ignition post on the starter solenoid, this wire then goes to the coil. The other end of the small wire (resistance wire) is the one I moved to the ignition post on the switch. I did switch the wires. Rechecked the diagram and found out I had messed up. The orange wire on the ignition post on the switch goes to the voltage regulator. The battery might be a little weak but that maybe being caused by this issue?
 
(reply to post at 17:58:27 04/28/17)
Generally, the starter is suspended in the starter casing. When curent is applied a magnetic field is generated causing the armature to spin. The clearance is tight so if the armature comes to close to the case it will have a tendency to drag or stick. Hence the click, click, click, spin and the cycle start over again. The starter not disengaging usually means the solenoid is stuck in the engaged position and need to be rebuilt.
 
Don't want to sound negative :) ... but just to prevent myself from going through all this testing crap, when I bring home a 50 year old tractor the last thing thing I expect is that anything electrical will function normally. Do yourself a favor, get out the wiring diagram and simply disassemble/clean/replace/reconnect anything related to the cranking circuit or engine electrical. The starter is probably full of crud and rust. Would you expect it be usable otherwise?
 
"When I turn the key into run position I have 12 volts on both ignition posts, starter solenoid as well as switch. It appears to be a starter problem."........... With key switch, on ignition post on switch should always show near battery voltage. With points open you will have battery voltage at I terminal on solenoid, with points closed you should see half battery voltage at I on solenoid.

"the small wire (resistance wire) is clamped into the ring terminal on the larger wire that attaches to the ignition post on the starter solenoid, this wire then goes to the coil.".....this is electrically correct. Originally this joint was inside the wire harness with wire from joint to coil and wire going to solenoid I terminal.

THE "S" POST ON SWITCH GOES TO "S" ON SOLENOID. THIS IS WHAT ENGAGES THE SOLENOID TO CRANK THE ENGINE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IGNITION CIRCUIT

THE "I" POST ON SWITCH GOES THROUGH RESISTANCE WIRE TO COIL AND "I" POST ON SOLENOID. IT IS PART OF THE SPARK/IGNITION CIRCUIT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CRANKING THE STARTER.

"The battery might be a little weak but that maybe being caused by this issue?" Weak battery is not caused BY the issue, weak battery would be CAUSING the issue.

Don't give up!!!! It ran before, it will run again!
 
it's entirely possible the points and condenser are bad just on principle. They only lasted 6 months on cars when I was a kid. I don't understand what you thought would happen when you turned the key to run. Turning the key connects the battery to the components and voltage should appear. !2 volts is a weak battery almost too weak to start. Test the battery on something else that runs and you'll see.
 
I had to correct the alternator wiring on my 1550 when I got it and ended up untaping the main part of the harness to trace it out. A pink wire from the S terminal to one small terminal of the relay. The white wire from the other terminal of the relay runs to the distributor. There is a resistance wire from the key switch that tees into the white wire just behind the engine block. It had extra length and was doubled back inside the tapped section. I think it was light gray and very flexible, not as stiff as the other wires. Hope this helps.
 
Not really understanding this thread starter, but the kettering ignition system is simplicity.

First thing - is the coil 12V or 6V?

The condenser should be open circuit up to its failure voltage, likely 500volts. There should be no current draw while the contact points are open.

The points may well get fried if run on 12V instead of 6V for extended periods, if the wrong coil is fitted, or if there should be a ballast resistor fitted. At non-running they should pass the current with no trouble, if they are parallel, not already burned, and clean.

If there is a hot blue spark from king lead to frame, there is nowt wrong with the condenser, points or coil, although the coil could fail intermittently when hot.

Testing for resistance of power leads is futile unless you have a very high quality meter. Test for voltage drop at operating current.
 

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