1975 White 2-105 Engine/Over Under/ Steering Assembly

Now the step of the project and I will need lots of advice and help.
The engine starts excellent - oil pressure is 1/2 to 3/4's of the way up on the green portion of the oil pressure gauge during operation running at rated speed and idling hot or cold. This tells me the bearings are in decent shape. No idea if they have been changed, however I plan on changing them anyway provided they are standard size. Right now I don't know that as it isn't apart.
The hours according to the hour meter, which operates, are around 4600. But she burns more oil than fuel! Blue smoke on start up and running even when at working temperature. I would guess a quart plus per hour for the short time I operated it in the field.
I'm thinking a full over haul kit is in order. Suggestions on a good supplier would be appreciated if that can be posted on here. If not email me personally. I have checked a few suppliers online and see a wide range in prices for the same kit. I overhauled my 2-135 Hercules and it was a total success but realise the Perkins is a different animal. i.e. wet sleeves etc. I have also considered it could be the valve seals/quides.
I have the IT shop manual and realise I will have to remove the engine due to the fact I have to do work on the over under. The over drive clutch is slipping. Direct and under operate perfectly under load.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions you care to give.
PS could someone tell me how to upload pictures please. I have tried but haven't had any success. A pic is worth 1000 words! Plus maybe someone else could learn from my experience as I have learned from others

Miniman, In the search box above you can type in posting pictures and you will have a lot of results. For me I have a laptop and a cannon camera and works good so far. You may not of posted enough yet to be allowed photo's and you could ask down on the YT support site. My friend has a 2-105 that he's fixing one piece at a time. He's had PTO rebuilt and hydraulic pump now 3 point hitch isn't working. It does run and steer well. Good luck and hope this helps. Greg

Have you checked the turbo? Maybe remove the turbo from the exhaust manifold and see if there is oil, oily residue in the manifold. If not you just may need a turbo

I played around with uploading a pic yesterday for a while but no success. Something I am missing or perhaps as you say I am not allowed pictures for some reason. Will play with it again from time to time.
Thank you for your suggestions.

Thanks for your suggestion.
Interestingly, yesterday I was wondering if the turbo could be the cause or part of the issue. After it had been idling for a time there was some black oily residue seeping down from where the muffler attaches to the exhaust manifold. Definitely a sign that excessive oil is passing into the exhaust system from somewhere. Quite possibly the turbo since if it passed through the combustion chamber it should have been burned there unless of course it was an extraneous amount.
When I took it to the field and put it under load there was a lot of smoke coming from the manifold area until it burned off.
I will investigate your suggestion further. I appreciate your interest and will keep you posted.

I agree checking the turbo is a good plan. However as with most good ideas there are problems.
I lubed the nuts holding the turbo to the exhaust manifold with penetrating oil and left them sit for more than 24 hours. I used a wire brush on an air dremel to clean the rust and threads as much as possible. I first tried to loosen the nut cold, didn't work. I didn't want to break the stud bolt. So finally I heated it red and used a socket on it and by taking a lot of time and patience it came off. BUT the threads on the stud and nut DON'T look healthy at all. There are still the other 3 nuts to remove and I am concerned that in the end I will have to replace all 4 studs. Is it common on these to have to replace the manifold due to rusty burnt fasteners?
That may be the case considering how rusty and burnt on the nuts are. Could mean drilling them out or a new manifold, studs and nuts.
By the way the exhaust manifold attaching nuts and studs don't look any better either. Several appear missing and I expect are broken off in the head. So I expect lots of issues getting it apart. The fasteners appear to be metric as well. 14mm nuts with fine threads. This could be as the serial # states "U" for UK build or maybe they are just so burnt that a 9/16 socket feels loose. I am not sure.
Suggestions will be appreciated.

Soaking those darn nuts

2-105 update. I removed the turbo and had it checked out by a diesel technician. It appears to be in good operating condition. So that ruled out the oil passing the turbo seals.

I left the turbo off the engine - closed off the oil supply line to the turbo and started the engine minus the muffler assembly.
I became obvious that the most of the blue smoke and oil was coming from the rear portion of the engine manifold, cylinders 3 - 6. I realize that would be expected as 4 cylinders exhaust through that part of the manifold compared to the front opening in the manifold.

I checked for blow-by and none at all appeared from the oil filler tube or the valve cover vent. In fact a slight vacuum could be felt. The air cleaner was omitted for this test run too so no obstructions there. It is not a positive crankcase vented system so I wondered why the slight vacuum? I seems to me that shouldn't be since the valve cover vent is a tube open below the side of the engine and could draw in dust etc.

Is it possible that the valve guides and seals if it has them (the Agco parts book doesn't show valve seals for this engine build but does for newer versions) could be letting this much oil past? After running for ten minutes there was oil collecting on the pliers directly above the exhaust opening which were sealing the turbo supply line. So it is pumping a lot of oil from somewhere.

I am not sure if I should pull the head to check the valve clearance and seals or the whole engine. Once the head is off it would be difficult to pull the engine if it needs sleeves etc.

I will appreciate suggestions or advice.

I have pics and video but no luck uploading either.

A pic showing oil blown out of the exhaust manifold and collecting on a pair of pliers sealing the turbo lube pipe just above the open manifold. No blow by apparent out of the valve cover vent or oil filler opening.
http://forums.yesterdaystractors.com/photos/37162.jpg[/img]

Have you had the injectors checked? If you did, and they check out ok, and not squirting instead of spraying, I would think it may be the valve guides are wore out.

No I haven't had the injectors out or checked but was planning to as part of the overhaul. Not sure how this would cause engine oil to pass through into the exhaust system though. I could see raw fuel passing through due to bad injectors. Maybe I am miss understanding your thoughts however.
I was running it a bit more today and noticed that there is oil leakage by the exhaust manifold gasket for #5/6 cylinder. I rubbed some on my finger and it is engine oil not diesel fuel from the smell.
But no blow by showing out of the filler tube or the valve cover breather which I find odd. Was wondering is it possible that an oil ring might have broken and the compression rings would still prevent blow by but would be over whelmed with oil?
I think I will pull the head first and take a look at the #5/6 valves guides and seals. Also see how wet the pistons are and look for any scoring on the sleeve walls.
Thanks for your response it is always appreciated.

Well after many hours of perseverance I succeeded in removing the head. About half the valves appeared wet and oil soaked so it appears it needs attention. The injectors were rock solid and wouldn't move so rather than cause damage I dropped the head off at the local engine rebuilders. He appears confident he will be able to remove them - time will tell.
The tops of the pistons were heavily encrusted with carbon but what I noticed was around the back edge of #6 closest to the stud in the picture it was clean metal also one or two of the other pistons had clean spots on the edges which would indicate oil passing the piston. Probably the oil rings are failing but the compression rings are still doing the job.
I expect this means new sleeves pistons along with bearings and redoing the head and injectors. I'm thinking I will have to pull the entire engine from the frame to do a proper job. I am interested in the comments about removing the fuel tank in another post.
Any advice on removing the sleeves would be appreciated as I understand they can be very difficult to remove sometimes.

Well remember the 2-105 started out with 354 dot 1 Perkins engines and the last ones had the dot 4 engine so watch that when ordering parts. Those sleeves are very tight. I know of dealers that welded beads inside the sleeves to loosen them AND I also know of times when they welded the sleeve to the block which creates other larger problems. Measure everything up and then compared with Perkins specs. If you change your mind post your e-mail and I will send you some. Looking at the picture you have an early 2-105 with a dot one engine but do check the engine number which is stamped by the injection pump.

(quoted from post at 06:27:41 06/25/16) Well remember the 2-105 started out with 354 dot 1 Perkins engines and the last ones had the dot 4 engine so watch that when ordering parts. Those sleeves are very tight. I know of dealers that welded beads inside the sleeves to loosen them AND I also know of times when they welded the sleeve to the block which creates other larger problems. Measure everything up and then compared with Perkins specs. If you change your mind post your e-mail and I will send you some. Looking at the picture you have an early 2-105 with a dot one engine but do check the engine number which is stamped by the injection pump.

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Thank you for you reply. You would be very welcome to email me.

My email is: [email protected]

The tractor details:

1975 White 2-105
S/N 354U335146TL

I believe this makes it a dot 1 engine as you mentioned.

Some of the sleeves show remnants of the original cross hatch pattern and all have negligible ridge at the top of the piston ring travel. But I would say they are glazed and new rings after deglazing the sleeves may solve the oil problem.

Laying a welding bead inside the sleeves makes me nervous as it could destroy the engine if it burned through and welded to the cylinder walls. Like wise a cut with a torch and damage to the block wall. I wondered about dry ice if it was available but may not be practical to fill the sleeve with that much and also dangerous to handle.

I don't have a sleeve puller at the moment but could probably make one up although from your comments this may not work well either.

I have added a couple pictures before I cleaned up the deck. I am thinking that I will have to remove the engine and over under from the frame as it appears that to remove the cast oil pan would be extremely difficult as there is very little room to get at the pan bolts and I need to replace the over drive clutch pack and may as well check the main clutch and bearing too.