1950 with detroit to 5.9 cummins

minn

New User
I have a 1950 mfd with a dead detroit
and also have a nice running 5.9
without a home. This is to be a
working tractor. Any opinions on
rebuilding the detroit Or doing the
conv. and keeping all detroit parts
just in case.
 
A MFWD 1950 w/ a detroit is a fairly desirable rig to collectors as it sits. You might even loose value doing a conversion. And as J. said, Detroits are pretty cheap to rebuild.
 
If you overhaul the Detroit don't just change the rings.the old sleeves tend to break in half with new rings.Get the kit with sleeve,piston,rings and rods that just drop in.
 
A 1950 is worthless with a Detroit.

If this is truly a working tractor, then put the Cummins in it, you won't miss that noisy gutless Detroit.

Or sell it and but something else.
 
Worthless??? Pretty strong words. I happen to think it would be quite valuable both as a working tractor, and from a collectors perspective. Why would you try to convince someone to go to all the work of putting in a Cummins when it would not add value? You are correct about one thing, it would be quieter!!
 
A detroit is the simplest engine out there to overhaul if you can read. I don't say this trying to be smart just that timing everything on one is very important and is complicated enough to require step by step instruction. What is wrong with it if th out dont mind me asking? Being a two stroke they have a lot of different symptoms than a normal four stroke. Ive seen more than one torn down when they really didnt need it. One of their legendary symptoms that got them labeled as gutless is their power band is about the top 400 rpm. If their not wide open you're not doing it right lol. Plus I am a die hard cummins man but if properly rebuilt and operated that old gm will still be killing mosquitoes long after that 5.9 has given up the ghost.
 

The value might decrease but the cummins will be a much better engine for a tractor. And it will have way more power and torque.
To a few people like myself if I found a Oliver with a cummins and had the money Id buy it in a heartbeat
 

Isnt there such a thing as a 4-92 upgrade, or isnt worth the hassel? The 4-53 wasnt that good of a engine!!!
 
Only having 212 cubic inches of displacement does equate to having enough lug to turn them wheels under load. Now engage that front wheel assist which requires more lug and them Detroit falls flat on their butt faster than you can pull that hydra-power.

No matter how you tune the Detroit you will still only get 105 ponies out of it as the Detroit is limited to air intake due to the root style blower that is needed to run a Detroit. Don't be fooled by installing N65 injectors as they will only add extra fuel cost and black smoke. It's no different than a 4 stroke engine, at a certain point you must increase the air intake in order to burn the additional fuel needed to create more power.

Rebuild the Detroit and sell the 1950. Take your money and buy a JD 4240 or a IH 966. You won't believe how much more lug you can get out of them 466 cubic inch blocks.
 
You will cost yourself a lot of money in doing the conversion which will cost you regardless if you have the engine and then probably $7500 to $10,000 in value of having a 4X4 Detroit or a cummins.
 
My 1950 is not worthless with a Detroit....It turns a tad over 105 horsepower....I wouldn't give you a nickel for
one with a 5.9 Cummins in it..
zydo28.jpg
 

If minn is handy in the shop and since he already has the 5.9 he should be able to easily do the sway for $2500 at the most and since he still uses this tractor a lot the cummins would be a more reliable and way more powerful option. Assuming it's a 6BT it's probably set at 160-175 HP so he will have more power then he will probably ever need
 
Only having 212 cubic inches of displacement does equate to having enough lug to turn them wheels under load. Now engage that front wheel assist which requires more lug and them Detroit falls flat on their butt faster than you can pull that hydra-power.

No matter how you tune the Detroit you will still only get 105 ponies out of it as the Detroit is limited to air intake due to the root style blower that is needed to run a Detroit. Don't be fooled by installing N65 injectors as they will only add extra fuel cost and black smoke. It's no different than a 4 stroke engine, at a certain point you must increase the air intake in order to burn the additional fuel needed to create more power.

Rebuild the Detroit and sell the 1950. Take your money and buy a JD 4240 or a IH 966. You won't believe how much more lug you can get out of them 466 cubic inch blocks.
 
Thanks for the replies. I bought the tractor with a locked up engine on an auction. I have no history on the tractor. I agree it would hurt resale to collectors with the cummins but I bought it to use and it would be much more user friendly with the 5.9. As far as selling and buying a JD or IH I'm a Oliver White man. I could do the conv. and keep all orig. parts for the future. I should've worded orig. post differently. I was wondering if anyone had done this. Does the tub work on the cummins? I do have a fairly well stocked mach. shop and like a challenge. Again thanks for all the replies.
 
Thanks for the replies. I bought the tractor with a locked up engine on an auction. I have no history on the tractor. I agree it would hurt resale to collectors with the cummins but I bought it to use and it would be much more user friendly with the 5.9. As far as selling and buying a JD or IH I'm a Oliver White man. I could do the conv. and keep all orig. parts for the future. I should've worded orig. post differently. I was wondering if anyone had done this. Does the tub work on the cummins? I do have a fairly well stocked mach. shop and like a challenge. Again thanks for all the replies.
 

Yes the tub should work I've seen several other Oliver's with the 5.9 in them before. The clutch and live shaft drive should be the only big obstacles.
 
No the 453 is not the most powerful engine.But it will last a long time if taken care of.we had three on the rice farm where I worked and there was no quit in them.fwa and r-2 tires there was NOTHING that would even come close to their ability in muddy conditions.I spent more than a couple thousand hours on them in my younger days.The only thing bad I have to say about them is they can make you deaf with no hearing protection!Also would a Hercules from say a 2150 fit in a 1950?That right there would be a faitrly powerful combination.
 
Everyone who says gms are so easy to overhaul, we just pulled one apart this week, that had a dropped valve and an oilpan full of thrust bearings. I wonder if the guy that overhauled it thought that!

If you want a cummins tractor why not just buy a white or repower a white that's not as collectable. A strong 4-53 should have enough power for that rearend anyway.
 
I would call around some industrial salvage yards in your area and see what the price is of a used 4-53 turboed engine. Im guessing 2500 bucks or less and it would be a direct bolt in.
 
What are you going to do with it? Sometime look at the differenced in the final drives on the G-M and the 1950T with the same horsepower. Use the mfd to take some of the strain off of the ring & pinion. My 2 cents worth.
 
J

Shoot me an email. I was wondering how to get production records on olivers. How can a guy find out how many 1855 gases were produced as well as other special options to how rare certain tractors are.
 
The Detroit is a fairly fuel efficiency engine that can be rebuilt for a reasonable price. The engine is nearly indistructable as long as it gets some fresh oil here and there. They can be turbo'd and big injectors put in it if you want more power. You also need to jack the rpm up to get the extra fuel vs. Power out of it as it is a 2 stroke. A good tuNE up will have more than enough low end torque just need to know how to set it up. It's a fairly rare tractor that has plenty of cool factor and sure is better to have than an old international. Just my 2 cents.
Duane o.
 
If you really want a 5.9 in an Oliver/white I would sell the 1950 to someone that wants to keep it original and get an 1850 or 2-105 white. The Cummins fits the best in a perkins tub. Also keep in mind you'll need a specific bellhousing and governor on your 5.9 to make this work. not one out of a pickup. Call Maibachs in OH if your real serious about doing it, they can set you up with parts if they have it.
 
I have several fwa olivers and the 1950 is the most impressive.I don't believe any other tractor manufacturer has a tractor with this small of cubic inches that will come close to the detroit.Most folks in my area are Deere and international fans. I have a couple of neighbors with a 1066 and a 4440 and they would never suggest they could out pull the detroit 4wd or 2wd. If you keep the RPMs up and can stand the noise it's a good tractor.If your dead set on a cummins get another tub and keep yours unmodified in case you decide to put it back original.
 
I also have to question any detroit experience if you think an IH 414 or 436 has lug in comparison. That 212 cid is plenty to turn all four tires easily if its in an appropriate gear. If the thing needs more air add a turbo. If it need more yet put a bigger blower on it. It has a 4-71 blower on it. They come in up to a 16-71. If you want to get real creative and you can revere the direction of rotation. Want to get real creative find the adapter plate and bolt two of them together. The detroit is probably the most versatile engine out there. A 4-53 can turn a whole lot more than 105 hp if you want to spend the money and time. Like anything else its what you want to make it do.
 
Obviously you don't know what you are talking about! Yes a 4-53 Detroit is only 212 cubic inches, but being a two stroke it has twice as many power strokes as a four stroke, effectively making it the same as a 424 cubic inch engine. Very fuel efficient too!
 

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