Oliver 1365, unhappy 3-point

Ed13

New User
I have a 1365 Oliver that decided it didn't like lifting it's 3-point disk unless it was revved to 2000..and then slowly. It will hold the load aloft at idle without bleeding the load back down. Using the lines running to the cultivator bars I've used a wheel disk that is heavier than my 3-point and it raises it without a problem. A gentleman thought it was the pressure relief valve..I don't think so being the lines that go forward for the cultivator bars come off the same housing that the pressure relief valve is in. What do you think my issue is? I swapped out the pump, filter is clean.
 
I posted these pics a few days ago for someone with a question on another Fiat. When you say you don't think it's the relief valve, have you checked both? There is one on the auxiliary valve that runs your hydraulic lift, and one on your hydraulic head that manages the 3pt. You might also check and make sure the copper sealing washers are in tact and sealing in the second photo. If your copper washers are not sealing, then you are bypassing the hydraulic fluid back to the reservoir. When I rebuilt mine I fought this issue for a long time until I figured out that it was a washer not sealing that was causing all of the 3 pt lift issues.

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(quoted from post at 08:35:34 10/30/15) I posted these pics a few days ago for someone with a question on another Fiat. When you say you don't think it's the relief valve, have you checked both? There is one on the auxiliary valve that runs your hydraulic lift, and one on your hydraulic head that manages the 3pt. You might also check and make sure the copper sealing washers are in tact and sealing in the second photo. If your copper washers are not sealing, then you are bypassing the hydraulic fluid back to the reservoir. When I rebuilt mine I fought this issue for a long time until I figured out that it was a washer not sealing that was causing all of the 3 pt lift issues.

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TWO pressure relief valves????? I've attempted to understand the layout in the service manual but have not discovered the one on the head!! Also, when the lifting issue arose, I was twidlling all the levers I could find and discovered the sensitivity lever had ceasesd to change any type of lifting sensitivity..and it may have been in-op for years as I haven't messed with it. I'll need to badger you more to understand what I am reading...I'm not as smart as I think I used to be!
 
(quoted from post at 10:15:03 10/30/15) Could be a worn pump.
Should not be the pump as I replaced that hoping for an easy fix. The copper washers that Mitch mentioned intrique me...plus the 2nd presssure relief valve that is located...where??
 
Here are pics with the relief valves out so you can see them. Second pic shows the back side of the hydraulic head for the 3pt. Your draft sensitivity lever is a big screw that moves in and out to adjust how much your 3pt spool is allowed to move. 3rd pic is from the parts manual (note that this does not have the aux hydraulic valve).
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(quoted from post at 07:12:30 10/31/15) Here are pics with the relief valves out so you can see them. Second pic shows the back side of the hydraulic head for the 3pt. Your draft sensitivity lever is a big screw that moves in and out to adjust how much your 3pt spool is allowed to move. 3rd pic is from the parts manual (note that this does not have the aux hydraulic valve).
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Thank you Mitch..the "cylinder safety valve" is the 2nd relief valve! With the draft sensitivity lever no longer seeming to have any efffect, is it safe to assume something is messed up in there that a simple "spool adjustment" Figure 6-16..could alter, or not? If I'm reading the book correctly, the little lever alters the starting/ending positions of the lift arms. Decades ago it seemed like it altered the speed at which the arms raised?
 
(quoted from post at 08:32:28 10/31/15) You need to find yourself a 5000 PSI gauge and check to see if the relief valve for the 3 point is bad.
I agree that putting a gauge on the system would be neat...however the manual talks about using an adaptor (figure 6-20) that appears to go under the oil inlet pump to the valve and I am unsure of how to create such a fixture.
 
Take a look at Fig 6-15. The only thing you are doing when you adjust the draft sensitivity lever is moving the spool in fig 6-15 left to right, which has the effect of engaging the drain valve plunger either sooner or later. In the event that it might be adjusted too far in, you could be dumping fluid from the 3pt piston without knowing it while you're trying to lift. Simple exercise to test that, take the bolt off the sensitivity lever, and back the adjuster out another turn and try again.

I realize I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I'm going to say this again. If you've changed the pump (with a presumably good replacement), then your problem is a missing or bad cooper sealing washer, or a linkage adjustment issue whereby you're dumping the fluid while you're trying to raise the lift. Since you said it holds when you get it raised, then I'm back to sealing washers. I drove myself nearly nuts trying to figure out why mine would not lift, until I found a missing washer.

I agree that inserting a pressure gauge in this system is not terribly practical the way the book describes, so I used a 3,000lb (operating pressure is less than 2,200psi) gauge and just plugged it into the remote outlet on the hydraulics. With the tractor running and your gauge inserted into one of the remotes, you can pull the aux lever and see if your pump is generating 2,000-2,100psi. If so, check the pump off the list of potential problems. If it is not, that does not mean the pump is bad, so don't make that conclusion yet. Next, take the hydraulic ports apart on the aux hydraulic head and check the washers. When you've confirmed everything is in place and sealing properly, re-test the pressure. If you have pressure now, then you've isolated your issue to the hydraulic head for the 3pt. Honestly, until you get to this step, you're guessing at what is wrong.

The reason I said to immediately check all of the copper washers is because it's very simple, doesn't cost $'s, and is most likely going to fix the problem. Obviously gets harder from there if they are all in place and doing their job.
 
Ed13. I have not worked on one of these for almost 40 years so we tend to forget some items. We sold a 1265 and it may be around yet although the owner just passed away and the problem with that one was contamination had lodged under the relief valve and held the relieve valve plunger off the seat causing it it leak. We used to deal with a hydraulic pump manufacture that said "always remember a leaking relief valve and a worn pump will act alike".
 
(quoted from post at 11:41:24 10/31/15) Take a look at Fig 6-15. The only thing you are doing when you adjust the draft sensitivity lever is moving the spool in fig 6-15 left to right, which has the effect of engaging the drain valve plunger either sooner or later. In the event that it might be adjusted too far in, you could be dumping fluid from the 3pt piston without knowing it while you're trying to lift. Simple exercise to test that, take the bolt off the sensitivity lever, and back the adjuster out another turn and try again.

I realize I'm going to sound like a broken record here, but I'm going to say this again. If you've changed the pump (with a presumably good replacement), then your problem is a missing or bad cooper sealing washer, or a linkage adjustment issue whereby you're dumping the fluid while you're trying to raise the lift. Since you said it holds when you get it raised, then I'm back to sealing washers. I drove myself nearly nuts trying to figure out why mine would not lift, until I found a missing washer.

I agree that inserting a pressure gauge in this system is not terribly practical the way the book describes, so I used a 3,000lb (operating pressure is less than 2,200psi) gauge and just plugged it into the remote outlet on the hydraulics. With the tractor running and your gauge inserted into one of the remotes, you can pull the aux lever and see if your pump is generating 2,000-2,100psi. If so, check the pump off the list of potential problems. If it is not, that does not mean the pump is bad, so don't make that conclusion yet. Next, take the hydraulic ports apart on the aux hydraulic head and check the washers. When you've confirmed everything is in place and sealing properly, re-test the pressure. If you have pressure now, then you've isolated your issue to the hydraulic head for the 3pt. Honestly, until you get to this step, you're guessing at what is wrong.

The reason I said to immediately check all of the copper washers is because it's very simple, doesn't cost $'s, and is most likely going to fix the problem. Obviously gets harder from there if they are all in place and doing their job.
Thank you Mitch, I'll try and get the copper washers on my to-do-list. Are they going to be an odd size to find do you think?
 
thankyou, I have pulled both relief valves and sadly didn't see any bits under the edge of the balls,,I did have fun getting the o-ring and copper ring to stay in place while re-installing the cylinder safety valve!
 
I'd check the filter screen again if there is ANY water in the oil it'll stop the oil flow.Also did you replace the rubber gasket that seals the cap shut? Any air leakage around that seal and it won't work right.I matched up a seal at the auto parts store they had on a rack.
 
I got a 1365 oliver the life stays up on it while it's running even if the lever is down. If you stand on it is the only way to get it down but goes right back up any suggestions
 

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