Oliver 550 1964 engine oil grades for summer and winter?

Hi, I've got a gas engine running smoothly with my last tune up including carb rebuild. For now, I'm using it only in summer logging some maple tree for firewood and a few pines for my portable sawmill, but starting next winter, I might have to use it in winter for plowing snow with my scraper blade and loader. I've got all shop manuals and I'm currently building a 24x32' garage with two 9x9' doors, so maintenance won't be a problem.

My concern is to make sure to use the right type of engine oil. I'm told by the previous owner and a few old mechanics that 10W30 is fine for this engine if I use STP oil additive to make the oil thicker in hot summer weather (often working a full day around 90F / 30C) without problem so far. I must say My 550 is mostly running medium RPM for the winch, short rides or idle between bucket loads of firewood. IMHO, ordinary automodive 10w30 is too thin to be used alone for hot weather and not formulated for heavy duty use (tractor). I'm also told that 10W30 might have too much detergent and that I should use 15W40 Shell Rotella for instance. For now I use 10W30 with 20% Lucas Oil Heavy duty stabilizer. Too much detergent could possibly make the piston rings and valve seals so clean that they would start burning an excessive amount of oil. So far, compression on all cylinders is even and fine, spark plugs show normal wear pattern, not problem to start and cleaning the carb eliminated the black smoke. I don't see any problem with the engine right now, and I don't want any. I like to keep things in good condition a long time with normal maintenance.

SUMMER:
What do you use as summer engine oil for an Oliver 550???
Are you using any oil additive ? Should I use 10W30, 20W40 or anything else ?

Plowing snow in winter would be a different business: Here temperature often drops down to -5F/-20C from December to march, so using STP or possibly Lucas oil additive is definitely out of question. I don't trust 10W30 alone in summer (too thin) and 15w40 is too thick for cold start below 5F/-15C. Of course, I will have access to a block heater.

WINTER:
Should I use plain 10W30 in winter or another type of oil ?
Should I use some oil additive in winter or not?

I've checked all Oliver 550 posting on Engine oil but I have not found much so far. The previous owner (an old school mechanic) told me the type of oil pump in the 550 is not efficient with thin oil. Shop manuals are full of outdated information because lubricants available 50 years ago are mostly irrelevant now.

Any information for best summer and winter engine oil would be appreciated

Thanks :?

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I use 10W-30 year round in my 550 per the owner's manual. Don't believe in any of the snake oil additives.
 
lamimartin, I use 15-50 Mobil-1 in my 550 and 77 year round and plow snow with the 77 and it always starts at sub-zero temps. There are no oil leaks on either tractor. Chuck
 
Hi,
If I'm not mistaken Mobil 15W50 is full synthetic oil.
I use only synthetic oils in my cars, but it is so far apart from the user manual specs (10W30, there was no synthetic oil in 1964) that I was not sure it would be a good idea. I'm new to vintage Oliver tractors. I'm told by my mechanic that I hardly have any oil leaks. It may burn oil a little at high RPM, but this may be normal.

If I'm concern about oil cost and high temperature protection, using Shell Rotella T 15W40 (year round) might be better than 10W30 with or without "shake oil additives" ?

Your suggestion would cover my current concern about protection from a tractor working into summer heat (what I beleive the 10W30 is too thin and not designed for) and starting in winter. Synthetic oil is far more expensive, but it is definitely easier to start with in winter than similar grade mineral oil. I suppose you use a block heater ?

Thanks again

Martin
 
I initially typed Shell Rotella T as "20W40" but corrected my typo, but it is really 15W40. This is typical oil for diesel and tractor in my humble opinion.
 
(quoted from post at 16:06:52 05/31/15) I use 10W-30 year round in my 550 per the owner's manual. Don't believe in any of the snake oil additives.
The only reason I went for an oil additive is because of the old owner recommendation: He's an old school industrial mechanic, and former owner of a gravel pit and road building operation. He knows a lot more about vintage heavy machinery I will ever know. He suggested that the design of the 550 oil pump made it vulnerable if the oil becomes too thin. I'm quite reluctant to ignore his advice.

For that reason, before I use plain 10W30, I'm seeking for some information. I also read an article that suggests that modern 10W30 oil is very good regardless of the brand, far superior than what it was 50 years ago with newer generation additives (see http://www.xs11.com/xs11-info/tech-tips/maintenance/oil---lubrication/58-the-surprising-truth-about-motor-oils.html) This same consumer reports article sees no benefit in oil additives. This article is irrelevant for any brand promotion (1996) but it is quite interesting to demonstrate the few difference there are for automotive oils in cars. This does not necessarly apply to use on an vintage tractor.

Despite the fact conclusions of that article may not entirely apply to vintage tractors , it looks like inexpensive 10W30 would perform well even in summer heat, with more frequent oil changes than synthetic.

I just found out an article on http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/articles/artint64.htm
It ends up with similar conclusions saying:
"oil is cheap, parts and labor are expensive".

I welcome other comments, even if conclusions are not the same as mine.

:eek:
 
Oil technology has come leaps and bounds
in the last 50 years. A basic base line
oil from Walmart 10w30 or other is 50 or
60 % better than back when this tractor
was built and it's not needed to go to a
20 50 or any of those snake oil
additives. If they were real and
functional the big oil companies would
have them snapped up ASAP. I live in
Northern alberta canad and i use 5w30 in
all the gas tractors newer than 1950 and
sae 30 in the older ones. The diesels
get 15w40 except the Detroit it gets sae
40 as it only runs in summer. Hope this
will help you on your answer. Duane o.
 
5W30... for Alberta makes sense, especially in winter (similar or colder weather than in southern Quebec)

I like the idea of one single type of oil year round.

5W30 could be standard or synthetic oil.
5w30 also exists in high mileage oils like Castrol GTX. I understand it has a higher amount of additive to prevent oil leaks... sounds interesting for a vintage tractor, Right ?

Wich type of 5w30 oil are you talking about ?
 
We use non synthetic Castrol or shell
and depending Walmart sells a high
quality 5w30 with the same api ratings
as the Castrol or shell at 1/2 the
price. All depends on what my bank
account tells me I can spend when they
are ready for their yearly oil change.
 
Quite interesting option: standard 5W30 Such grade did not exist a few years ago and standard oil is recyclable as opposed to synthetic, but lately even synthetic is apparently recyclable in most areas.

Advantages:
Low cost, several brands available at competitive pricing and packaging.
low/high temperature compatibility for year round operation.

I'm tempted by the high mileage formulas, especially the extra additive to seal oil leaks despite extra detergents. What do you think ? Article about such gasket sealing additives makes me think this is an interesting option which costs little more than the regular formula : http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2014/05/use-high-mileage-oil-car.html
There is also a warning from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e6HmEqFdeIY about the fact such additive swelling the gaskets must be used only as last resource, because such high mileage oil are addictive... without maintenance of the swelling effect on seals, burning oil will increase quite substantially with regular oil. So once we switch to high mileage option, it has to remain on that type of oil.

Martin
 
(quoted from post at 21:48:54 05/31/15) Hi,
If I'm not mistaken Mobil 15W50 is full synthetic oil.
I use only synthetic oils in my cars, but it is so far apart from the user manual specs (10W30, there was no synthetic oil in 1964) that I was not sure it would be a good idea. I'm new to vintage Oliver tractors. I'm told by my mechanic that I hardly have any oil leaks. It may burn oil a little at high RPM, but this may be normal.

If I'm concern about oil cost and high temperature protection, using Shell Rotella T 15W40 (year round) might be better than 10W30 with or without "shake oil additives" ?

Your suggestion would cover my current concern about protection from a tractor working into summer heat (what I beleive the 10W30 is too thin and not designed for) and starting in winter. Synthetic oil is far more expensive, but it is definitely easier to start with in winter than similar grade mineral oil. I suppose you use a block heater ?

Thanks again

Martin
Martin, I don't use a block heater. My 77 is used also for tractor pulling and makes more than 90 horse power and turns up to 4000 rpms when pulling. The last time I had is apart was about 12 years ago. Before I started using synthetic oil I would have to put new rods and mains in it each year and never reved it past 3000 back then. I change the oil once a year, not all that expensive for the superior lubrication you get. Chuck
 
4000 RPM on a 77 !!!

This tractor is rated at 1600 RPM... you are really tuning it on steroids !!! The proof is in the pudding... and on the repair schedule. Even synthetic oil is so much cheaper than any engine repair !

Your comments are comforting my opinion about full synthetic oil. My only question is the grade you are talking about. 15W50 is substantially thicker than 10W30 recommended in the Oliver 550 user's manual. What about 5W30 full synthetic instead of 15W50 for normal (not competitive) operation year round (winter or summer) ? I'm impressed you say you don't use block heater with 15W50. This is telling me I made a good decision to avoid vintage diesel engines for such light duty as mine. But still, why such thicker oil on vintage Oliver ?
 
I just use basic plain old oil. We have
one out of 8 tractors that has been
freshened up the rest are all original
condition only have one that needs oil
between services as it leaks most of its
loss and burns a light haze from the
stack. It's a 1944 Oliver 70 the rest
are still good. I'd go with the 5w30 or
5w40 synthetic if your engine is fresh
or it may start using oil if not but
it's an awesome all season oil
 
(quoted from post at 08:58:15 06/01/15) I just use basic plain old oil. We have one out of 8 tractors that has been freshened up the rest are all original condition only have one that needs oil between services as it leaks most of its loss and burns a light haze from the stack. It's a 1944 Oliver 70 the rest are still good. I'd go with the 5w30 or 5w40 synthetic if your engine is fresh or it may start using oil if not but it's an awesome all season oil
By "fresh" you mean engine rebuilt for piston, rings, valve and all gaskets ? You are suggesting to use thicker synthetic for rebuilt engine ?

My 1964 is original as well as the second 550 I purchased for essential parts, such as spare engine, steering, wheels, transmission. So far, I only needed to cannibalize the hydraulics because my 3 points lift failed. The previous owner changed the main and PTO clutches, and radiator, but never had to rebuild the engine. Eventually, swapping engines is faster and cheaper than rebuilding one, as long as the spare is kept in good condition.

Ever since I cleaned the carb, my engine purrs like a cat and hardly even smokes on exhaust anymore. Whenever it starts to burn or leak too much oil, I might swap it while it is still enough in good shape to rebuild it. Considering I have a spare immediately available as backup, I won't suffer much downtime.

Thanks again for your down to earth and proven comments
 
Considering that the Oliver in question was built over 50 years ago so was the oil that was suggested I'd say throw the oil suggestion aide.Lubricants have changed and improved so much since then what was suggested then really doesn't apply these days.The cheapest grade oil you can buy now at Walmart now is superior to the best oil back in those days.I've used Kendall's 15W-40 diesel grade oil in every engine I own for the last 20 or so years without any oil related issues.The only exception is a couple of very high hour tractors I use straight 40W diesel grade oil.
 
Martin, The 5-30 oil is for modern engines that have much closer clearances than your 550 and they have high oil pressure 45-60lbs while your 550 only has 15-18lbs. Chuck
 
You should check some specs on 5-30 oil compared to 10-30 oil. Often the 5-30 does not have the wear protection needed in a flat tappet
engine. 10-30 will work in your tractor. I have 3 tractors that size and use Conklin Convoy 10-30 in the gas engine and the same brand 15-40
in the diesels. They are used for antique pulling and a little garden work. When I was a kid my Dad liked to use 30w oil in our tractors
because he wanted the oil to stay where it was needed and my uncle used 20w oil because he wanted it to get to where it was needed.
 
(quoted from post at 08:37:17 06/01/15) You should check some specs on 5-30 oil compared to 10-30 oil. Often the 5-30 does not have the wear protection needed in a flat tappet engine. 10-30 will work in your tractor.(...)
"Flat tappet"... This is the type of oil pump that produces such low oil pressure ? It is the very reason why the previous owner advised me to stay with 10W30 with wear protection additive, but there was no specific information on why.

Thanks to the key words "flap tappet" I just found out this is related to the cam shaft and there are some products made specifically for that type of old fashion stuff: :!: :idea:
========
(From http://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c3-tech-performance/2484100-list-of-flat-tappet-oils.html)

[size=9:6d47597bda]ZDDP (Zinc Dialkyl-Dithio-Phosphate, "zinc" or"zink") is an anti-wear oil additive that contains roughly equal amounts of zinc (Zn) and phosphorus (P) and is particuarly critical for correct lubrication of flat-tappet camshafts. The amount of ZDDP has decreased over time with the broad adoption of roller-tappet cams and the negative impact ZDDP has on catalytic converters. [/size:6d47597bda]
========
I'm now pretty sure using 10W30 or 5W30 (extreme cold weater) WITH ZZDP additive will be the winning combo for me.
I found several ZDDP additive on Ebay, but nothing locally. It must be because love for classic cars and tractors is not that common (fortunately, there is this forum !!!)

Now understand WHY using an oil additive for my Oliver 550 and which anti-wear additive to look for. You may also want to have a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zinc_dithiophosphate

Does it makes sense now ??? Modern oil is better quality, but because of flap tappet type of cams, I must look for ZZDP additive that is NO LONGER in modern oils because of anti pollution devices that are NOT present on my Oliver 550 1964.

:p
 
(quoted from post at 08:28:24 06/01/15) Martin, The 5-30 oil is for modern engines that have much closer clearances than your 550 and they have high oil pressure 45-60lbs while your 550 only has 15-18lbs. Chuck

You are right on! it is missing an anti-wear additive called ZDDP (any grade of modern oil since 1993) because the additive would reduce the lifespan of catalytic converters. Any engine designed after 1992 is built such a way that it does not need ZDDP, but ALL CLASSIC CARS AND OLD TRACTORS DO, especially when equipped with the Flat Tappet cam design.

UPDATE: there is still a certain amount of ZDDP in modern oil (at least on most I could find) , but in concentrations that are below 1000ppm, which is the minimal amount required to protect flat tappet type cams as opposed to newer engines that user rollers on cams. Such newer engine are matched with "energy conserving" API SN oil specifications. The exception is heavy grades made for diesel (API CJ4) which usually maintains 1200ppm of ZDDP, but this must be checked with manufacturer. Diesel API specifications are targeting sulfur content and pollution, but there is not much info about ZDDP: http://www.api.org/~/media/files/certification/engine-oil-diesel/publications/mom_guide_english_2013.pdf

In other words, if an engine oil is marked with API SN logo (energy conserving) is it probably NOT a good match for an engine with flat tappet type of cams, typical of engines designed before 1992. It may require ZDDP additive to remain safe to use. This is not a matter of beleiving on magic "snake oil", or selling anything. This is a matter of science and technical specifications required to keep our old tractors engines in good shape.

I just found out (see my other reply)

Martin
 
(quoted from post at 21:58:44 06/01/15) Martin, Mobil-1 15-50 has 1200PPM of ZDDP/Zinc and is all you need to keep your engine running long and cool. Chuck
This is indeed the minimal level recommended for ZDDP, but 15w50 is very far from 10w30 manufacturer spec and basic 5w30 + one shot of ZZDP additive would be half the cost of synthetic of any grade. I don't think 15w50 would perform well in very cold winter temperature. I used 5w50 synthetic for years on old diesel Jetta that could start much better than with VW recommended spec of reg. 15w40 that would not allow me to start in coldest winter days. Mobil 15w50 is perfect substitute for 15w40 diesel oil on a tractor with a block heater or heated garage, but all diesel tractor owners up here told me to get a gas engine for occasionnal duty because diesel was a pain to start in winter... they all use 15w40 oil.

I think 5w30 or 10w30 + ZDDP has better chances to protect cams in cold winter start than thicker oil (in reference to 5w or 10w not 15w) and I'm skeptical about w50 instead of w30. 15w40 oil existed in 60's. If thicker oil was indicated, they would not have specified 10w30. Slightly thicker oil helps compensate engine wear that reduces oil pressure, but I'm reluctant to get too far off manufacturer specs. I refer specifically to Oliver 550 which has a combination of low oil pressure specs and flat tappet cams.
 
(quoted from post at 21:58:44 06/01/15) Martin, Mobil-1 15-50 has 1200PPM of ZDDP/Zinc and is all you need to keep your engine running long and cool. Chuck
Yes, thanks to your observation, I saw that diesel grades as opposed to ordinary car grade oils maintained the amount of ZDDP required to protect engines with flat tappet type of cams,

I've used 15w40 on my motorcycle (which requires ZDDP too) and noticed it is very hard to start whenever weather gets near freezing point. Judging by the dipstick end, it is much thicker than 10w30 on a very cold start. Regardless of the fact synthetic oil is great, W50 overall viscosity is another step over w40 and w30... possibly too much.

What is the reason I would get so far up in general viscosity except for ZDDP I could add separately to similar concentration on any 5w30 or 10w30 for half the price overall ? So far, this is my closest bet, but I'm not a mechanic just a user trying to understand on a steep learning curve how to keep my 550 in good shape and easy to start year round.
 

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