1650/1750 Short Wheelbase Front End

Married2Allis · Jan 29, 2015

.... putting this in right forum ...
Are the parts interchangeable between 1650s and 1750s for the short wheelbase front-end (aka utility front end, or under slug), anyone know? - thanks

J. Schwiebert · Jan 29, 2015

May or maybe not . There were some changes made to those as well as the normal wide front ends. So if you want to replace one off of say a 1750 and put it on a 1650 it will fit. Now if you remove a spindle off of one or the arm attached to one of the spindles or the tie rod assembly they may or may not be the same.

Married2Allis · Jan 29, 2015

(quoted from post at 09:41:53 01/29/15) May or maybe not . There were some changes made to those as well as the normal wide front ends. So if you want to replace one off of say a 1750 and put it on a 1650 it will fit. Now if you remove a spindle off of one or the arm attached to one of the spindles or the tie rod assembly they may or may not be the same.

On the 1650's, do you know if there was a different power steering cylinder ... one for the row crop adjustable front end, and a different one for the short wheelbase front end?

J. Schwiebert · Jan 29, 2015

The answer is NO.

BANDITFARMER · Jan 29, 2015

I put a wide front off an 1850 on my 1550 and it was unbolt and bolt back up. My 1550 utility has the under slung axel and was looking at the center steering yoke on both of the 1550's and they are the same. Only difference is one steers from the front of the axel and the other steers from the back of the axel. Bandit

Don-Wi · Jan 29, 2015

They must have the hydraulic lines reversed to turn the right way I guess. Wonder if that makes it s different part number for the lines?

Donovan from Wisconsin

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

I think all you'd have to do is switch the lines back under the dash somewhere wouldn't you? They go rubber to steel. I think if you'd just swap them there.

Married2Allis · Jan 30, 2015

(quoted from post at 07:49:49 01/30/15) I think all you'd have to do is switch the lines back under the dash somewhere wouldn't you? They go rubber to steel. I think if you'd just swap them there.

So you're saying in order to switch from the rowcrop axle to the shortwheelbase axle, the power steering lines get swapped (because the direction is reversed)?

Married2Allis · Jan 30, 2015

(reply to post at 15:32:57 01/29/15) I put a wide front off an 1850 on my 1550 and it was unbolt and bolt back up. My 1550 utility has the under slung axel and was looking at the center steering yoke on both of the 1550's and they are the same. Only difference is one steers from the front of the axel and the other steers from the back of the axel. Bandit

Wow, that is one great looking 1550. There was a 1650 Utility model also I think? , I found this pic ... the axle on it seems different -- it's not the under-slung, not the rowcrop, not the wheatland. ???

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

Thanks. She was rough lookin when I got her but its coming along nicely. I will have to admit that 1650 is different . It has a 1655 grill for sure and that front axel is like nothing I have ever seen on one. It looks factory and is different for sure but the more I find out about these utilities is there were a lot of changes made in them from start of the run to finish run. They are a unique tractor for sure. Bandit

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

I was just trying to figure it from Don's geometry. I don't think you would,would you? As long as the arm went out the front instead of the rear it shouldn't matter. Or am I missing something.
I don't have any with the swept back axle.
I know my White uses the same cylinder as the Olivers,but it's mounted the other way around so the lines go in from the front instead of the rear,but that's just a matter of space in a different tub. Those lines are definitely different.

J. Schwiebert · Jan 30, 2015

Yes. You do that on the front of the dash unit.

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

Well sitting hear thinking about the difference between a regular row crop WF and a utility slung back axel the lines would have to be reversed.

The row crop axel steers from the back side of the axel and to TURN RIGHT the steering yoke and tie rods move to the left to turn the wheel to the right.

Now the utility slung back axel steers from the front side of the axel and to TURN RIGHT the steering yoke and tie rods move to the right to turn the wheel to the right.

So in essence it would have to have the lines reversed in order to work right when going from a regular row crop WF to a slung back utility style axel. I had to sit and think about this one for a bit. Bandit

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

Looking at that picture of that 1650,that arm is coming out the front isn't it? And on the row crop wide front they come out the rear. Imagine if you lengthened the arm on that swept back front so it came out the front and rear both. Now if you lengthened the arms on the spindles too,and ran tie rods between them,they wouldn't fight against each other.

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

If you were to make that arm longer to stick out the back of the slug under utility axel there would be problems. 1 a slight movement of the steering wheel would turn the wheels a lot. 2 one of two things wound brake on the axel, ether the extenshion would brake off dew to the wheels hitting there stops on the back of the axel. Or the yoke would brake.

If I remember right there are 2 steel line that couple together by the engine inside the tube that could be switched there instead of under the dash, Or am I wrong? Bandit

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

I'm just talking about the geometry of it. On your 1550 utility the arm comes out the back like a row crop axle doesn't it? In that case,the lines would have to be switched or it would steer the wrong way. The 1650 in the other picture looks like it comes out the front. The tie rods and arms on the spindles are on the front too. On that one,the lines would be hooked the same as on a row crop wide front wouldn't they?
This is making my head hurt.

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

On my utility the steering arm comes out the back just like a row crop WF but it would steer backwards unless the lines were switched.

The 1650 in the pic below I have never seen an axel made this way before, But it would steer the same way as the regular row crop WF because the lines would NOT be switched. The yoke shaft would turn the same way on both the regular RC WF and the one on the 1650 pictured below. Its just on my utility front axel the lines need to be reversed. Clear as mud, Right? Bandit

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

I understand it. It's not as easy to see the arm on your 1550 as it is on that 1650.

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

Best I can do. Bandit

Married2Allis · Jan 30, 2015

(quoted from post at 15:13:12 01/30/15) Best I can do. Bandit

Not sure if you can see the steering arm clearly on these side by side ... but looks to me here that if the arm moved clockwise it would turn the swb tractor to the left and the other one to the right:

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

It would. The one on the left would need the lines crossed. The one with the fancy paint job that you posted below with the swept back axle though,would have the lines the same as the one on the right. (wouldn't it?)

Married2Allis · Jan 30, 2015

(quoted from post at 16:36:02 01/30/15) It would. The one on the left would need the lines crossed. The one with the fancy paint job that you posted below with the swept back axle though,would have the lines the same as the one on the right. (wouldn't it?)

I really think so. I believe the steel p/s lines might be swapped at the steering wheel end at the factory during assembly.

rrlund · Jan 30, 2015

They could be swapped where the rubber goes to steel just below and behind the fuel tank easy enough.

greg oliver · Jan 30, 2015

Married to Allis, The short wheelbase front axle that I have pictures of the steering column and dash is on my tractor now and steers properly. My phone died today its working now. Greg

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

You are right! That's why the lines would have to be switched to make it steer right when you turn the steering wheel to the right. Bandit

greg oliver · Jan 30, 2015

rrlund, I found the different line arrangements in my manual tonight. I can't tell if its readable and I meant to post my other response to Married to Allis, sorry about that. Greg

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

Well it looks like I was wrong, They turned the steering box around. I would have never figured they would have done that. I guess you can learn something new everyday, Even when your wrong. Bandit

greg oliver · Jan 30, 2015

Bandit, I have never taken a front end off what is the biggest problem. I need to pull steering arm and bolster and front axle and I only have hand tools no torch. Thanks for any info I have the manual but trust real world experience. Greg

BANDITFARMER · Jan 30, 2015

Let me check with a friend of mine in the morning about the steering box to see if it can be turned around like it shows in your book, Or if its total different. And I guess I need to look at my utility at its steering box and my other 1550 to see what I can see. I already know how to tell you how to do the change the front ends I just need to check a few things first. Bandit

greg oliver · Jan 31, 2015

Bandit, headed over to milk I should be back by 10:00. Married2Allis has row crop front end on his tractor now and power steering cylinder on my parts tractor looks the same and headed in same direction. I will get another pic of power steering cylinder I thought he just needed the bolster and front end and steering arm for tie rods. Thanks, Greg

rrlund · Jan 31, 2015

Those steering cylinders are all the same. I just put one out of an open center Oliver,in to my closed center 2-135 White and that one had to be turned around so the lines come out the front.
I just had to take the plug out of the top and put the fitting in for the drain line on top,that was the only difference.

Married2Allis · Jan 31, 2015

(quoted from post at 18:36:41 01/30/15) rrlund, I found the different line arrangements in my manual tonight. I can't tell if its readable and I meant to post my other response to Married to Allis, sorry about that. Greg

No worries Greg, I was looking at this diagram too last night. Wish I had 1650 parts manual.

greg oliver · Jan 31, 2015

Hey I'm back and have pics of the power steering cylinder and center arm also a couple pics from the farm this morning of 2-105 and the dung streuer. That's the $4500 2-105 from auction this fall runs good but no glass in the cab. I told the young farmer this morning at least he doesn't have to deal with frosted up windows temp was -12. LOL Greg

greg oliver · Jan 31, 2015

Married2Allis, I got the front end all unbolted this afternoon and wasn't to hard. It was 27 degrees in my outdoor shop when the wind didn't blow so I didn't waste to much time making snow angels under there. I told you when I'm bored I will pull it apart! Greg

Married2Allis · Feb 2, 2015

Thanks Greg. Not much left of the old girl now looks like, do you also happen to have a right rear fender? How about a toolbox? Got your email, I'll give you a call this week. I bet you will be playing in the snow in the dark too!

1650/1750 Short Wheelbase Front End

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