Yesterday's Tractor Co. Compare our Prices For Parts
Click Here or call 800-853-2651 
   Allis Chalmers Case Farmall IH Ford 8N,9N,2N Ford
   Ferguson John Deere Massey Ferguson Minn. Moline Oliver
 
Marketplace
Tractor Manuals
Tractor Parts
Classified Ads
Photo Ads

Community
Discussion Forums
Project Journals
Tractor Town
Your Stories
Show & Pull Guide
Events Calendar
Hauling Schedule

Galleries
Tractor Photos
Implement Photos
Vintage Photos
Help Identify
Parts & Pieces
Stuck & Troubled
Vintage Ads
Community Album
Photo Ad Archives

Research & Info
Articles
Tractor Registry
Tip of the Day
Safety Cartoons
Tractor Values
Serial Numbers
Tune-Up Guide
Paint Codes
List Prices
Production Nbrs
Tune-Up Specs
Torque Values
3-Point Specs
Glossary

Miscellaneous
Tractor Games
Just For Kids
Virtual Show
Museum Guide
Memorial Page
Feedback Form

Yesterday's Tractors Facebook Page

Related Sites
Tractor Shed
TractorLinks.com
Ford 8N/9N Club
Today's Tractors
Garden Tractors
Classic Trucks
Kountry Life
Enter your email address to receive our newsletter!

subscribe
unsubscribe
  
Oliver, Cletrac, Co-op & Cockshutt Tractors Discussion Forum
Show Parts for Model:

#4 Injector line on Perkins

Author  [Modern View]
LStangle

05-24-2014 11:00:55
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator

Its me again...I'm reachin' here but my 354 is still missing badly on # 2 hole...only thing I see is that my #4 injector line is damaged where it goes through its holder, any chance it can be slightly restricted and changing the fuel flow to the previous cylinder in the firing order, which would be #2? I've swapped injectors, changed timing, fresh rebuild, cannot get it to stop missing at high RPMS on # 2...If so anyone have a #4 or full set of injector lines for a 69 model 1850 Perkins?

[Reply]   [No Email]
hrRoss

05-24-2014 21:21:19
166.137.100.22



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 11:00:55  
did you check the compression? had the same thing on a 3208 cat. compression on 2 cyl was 300 lbs, needs more than that to fire. was 2 bent rods from leaky head gasket. it dont take much bend to lower compression. had the same thing on a vw tdi, in the same year



[Reply]  [No Email]
mkuhns

05-24-2014 16:50:19
71.245.59.17



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 11:00:55  
I had our 1850 missing on two cylinders caused by one injector. The one injector was stuck open allowing compression back into the injection pump, so the next firing cylinder got a bunch of air instead of fuel. I would swap out #6 to say #5 so you know the injector before #2 was working good. DOES the engine miss under load or not? If the end of the line is damaged, replace it or blow through it with brake cleaner to make sure it has good flow. These engine are notorious for a high rpm flutter that goes away under load. It doesn't sound like what you're dealing with. Ours did that until we updated the bronze pump drive gear and injection pump drive like on the 2-105's. Another option is to run the engine with the injector out hanging off the injector line an watching the spray of the injector. Are all the camshaft lobes OK or is one worn off? Just a few ideas. Good luck and let us know what you find.

[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-24-2014 18:31:22
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to mkuhns, 05-24-2014 16:50:19  
I don't have high rpm flutter, its a noticeable miss / knock on # 2...it misses / knocks whether loaded or not. I'm going to pull valve cover tomorrow if I have time and see if the valves are opening like the rest...thanks for all the replies, I appreciate the help and will keep posting.



[Reply]  [No Email]
oliver90owner

05-24-2014 13:47:27
92.1.41.223



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 11:00:55  
A lot of attention to the injection side, but I would be considering whether the 'brain' of the engine - the cam shaft - might be a possible suspect.

You say 'fresh rebuild', but what exactly did that mean? Maybe even a busted valve spring? But I would be checking the timing/lift on that cylinder (in particular) as part of the diagnosis. Cost nowt to do, even if simply to remove it from suspicion.

[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-24-2014 14:56:58
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to oliver90owner, 05-24-2014 13:47:27  
I think you are onto something...I just decided has to be the cam...we replaced all springs, retainers, seats & guides but never actually had the cam out. We looked at it from the bottom but never had it out or measured lift. I have tried everything from way to advanced to way too retarded, swapped injectors, swapped check valves, nothing takes knock away at high rpms, & its always on # 2...looks lake its back to pulling at least valve cover & trying to measure lift / duration...

[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-28-2014 19:43:35
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 14:56:58  
Well I haven't had much time to work on it lately...my neighbor has a compression tester I can use so that's my next step...but after talking to some other people seems as though bad cam or rod is very unlikely...I think there has to be something wrong with the delivery side of the injector pump. There has to be something restricting or overfueling the #2 cylinder. I know everyone will say this isn't possible but there aren't many options left. I have a local rebuilder that I'm thinking of sending the pump to so he can run it on his test stand and hopefully figure it out. I'll post the results of my compression test and valve clearances...

[Reply]  [No Email]
mkuhns

05-24-2014 16:54:31
71.245.59.17



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 14:56:58  
Just start it up and watch rocker arm movement. It should be more than noticeable if the cam is bad. Do you have any abnormal smoke or unusual noises.



[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-24-2014 18:33:40
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to mkuhns, 05-24-2014 16:54:31  
I get white smoke, but if I crack the line to #2 injector it goes away...seems as though # 2 isn't burning completely not sure why...



[Reply]  [No Email]
mkuhns

05-24-2014 18:45:24
71.245.59.17



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 18:33:40  
Sounds like you have an intake lobe issue with the cam not allowing enough air into the cylinder. Raw fuel will eventually build up in the cylinder and burn when it can causing your knocking. Another thought, is something in the intake manifold port blocking the passage? I forget the head port design. White fuel smoke is lack of compression/air causing delayed or no ignition of fuel.



[Reply]  [No Email]
CAS

05-24-2014 12:51:33
67.240.133.144



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 11:00:55  
I think not. In the pump the rotor clearance is measured at the factory with an air micrometer. It is in microns and can not be measured by micrometers or verniers. In the old days they would put a pile of rotors and rings on table. Then women that had a lot of experience fitting them matched them up. So, to shorten the post it can not leak between 2 and 4. The pump would have to be so bad the tractor would not even start.
It sounds like a timing problem. Forget playing with the gears on front if they are as close as reasonably possible.
On the left front of the engine, ahead of the injection pump drive there are 4 5/16 bolts. Remove that cover and The are 3 allen bolts, loosen them. The little gear there has 3 slots in it try a few positions back and forth. Mark your starting point on the gear so you know where you started.
My getting involved was when I bought 23 new surplus engines for scrap price in 1969. The only thing I did not check before paying for them is that they were in England. Again long story short the freight to my shop was only $400 per engine. For years Oliver brand was strong around here and Perkins engines then were designed to burn a quart of oil every ten hours. So, yor can guess what happened. That is when I started rebuilding Perkins Engines.
Last thing if you turn injector upside down on 4 bend the line a little tighen it up start the engine and see what kind of pattern you get.
Please post back how you make out. If this does not work, post back then it gets a little more complicagted.

[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-24-2014 13:09:54
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to CAS, 05-24-2014 12:51:33  
Can timing really affect just one cylinder? My reasoning for my first post was someone told me that on these engines fuel delivery issues are usually caused by the cylinder before the one you're having trouble with in the firing order. Sounds confusing even to me...I've tried so many things its hard to keep it all straight...



[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-24-2014 12:54:25
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to CAS, 05-24-2014 12:51:33  
Thank you for the info, I will do as you suggested and let you know what happens...



[Reply]  [No Email]
J. W. Schwiebert-2

05-24-2014 11:11:54
209.143.33.199



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to LStangle, 05-24-2014 11:00:55  
Have you checked the delivery valve for #2 cylinder? Remember each cylinder has one. We had one 2 years ago the timing mark on the flywheel was off. How did you check the timing ? I had one of those once and the timing marks were all lined up,but and it would miss. When I flow timed it was late. Maybe I will send you an e-mail if you want to talk to me. Let me know first. J.



[Reply]  [No Email]
LStangle

05-24-2014 11:29:35
205.149.152.196



Report to Moderator
 Re: #4 Injector line on Perkins in reply to J. W. Schwiebert-2, 05-24-2014 11:11:54  
Feel free to email me l_stangler@hotmail.com I didn't check timing just went by the marks on the housing, they were lined up perfectly, I've retarded it considerable with no change. Can timing being off affect just one cylinder?



[Reply]  [No Email]
[Options]  [Printer Friendly]  [Posting Help]  [Return to Forum]   [Add a Reply]

Hop to:
TRACTOR   PARTS TRACTOR   MANUALS
Same-Day Shipping! Most of our stocked parts ship the same day you order (M-F).  Expedited shipping available, just call!  Most prices for parts and manuals are below our competitors.  Compare our super low shipping rates!  We have the parts you need to repair your tractor.  We are a Company you can trust and have generous return policies!   Shop Online Today or call our friendly sales staff toll free (800) 853-2651. [ More Info ]

Home  |  Forums


Copyright © 1997-2014 Yesterday's Tractor Co.

All Rights Reserved. Reproduction of any part of this website, including design and content, without written permission is strictly prohibited. Trade Marks and Trade Names contained and used in this Website are those of others, and are used in this Website in a descriptive sense to refer to the products of others. Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy

TRADEMARK DISCLAIMER: Tradenames and Trademarks referred to within Yesterday's Tractor Co. products and within the Yesterday's Tractor Co. websites are the property of their respective trademark holders. None of these trademark holders are affiliated with Yesterday's Tractor Co., our products, or our website nor are we sponsored by them. John Deere and its logos are the registered trademarks of the John Deere Corporation. Agco, Agco Allis, White, Massey Ferguson and their logos are the registered trademarks of AGCO Corporation. Case, Case-IH, Farmall, International Harvester, New Holland and their logos are registered trademarks of CNH Global N.V.

Yesterday's Tractors - Antique Tractor Headquarters