2-135 over/under

rrlund

Well-known Member
Somebody want to kick me while I'm down and tell me I have to pull the over/under right out of the 2-135?
I chisel plowed with it day before yesterday,no problem. I started in yesterday,went about two thirds of the way across a half mile long field and the "powershift pressure" light came on for 15-20 seconds. It went back off,but about half an hour later the "powershift temp" light came on. First thing that came to mind was filter. The boy was here working on his truck so I called him,asked him if there was one in the cabinet in the shop. He didn't know if it was the one,but I told him to send his mother out with it. Wasn't right,so we went and got one. When I took it off,I didn't like the look of the oil,it was darker than I wanted to see,so we came home and got some oil and I changed it.
When I started it back up,the temp light was off of course,but the pressure light was on. I had to rev it up to get it to go off. It came back on when I idled it back down. I went out and tried it. It shifts good and crisp as long as the rpms are up so the light is off,but if I idle it down the pressure light comes on then it shifts sluggish. I worked about half an hour and the temp light came back on.
I brought it home,sprayed water through the cooler,condenser and radiator,the light went off. The engine isn't running hot and the AC is working,so I've got good air flow.
I let it sit three hours,sucked a quart of oil out,put a bottle of Lucas auto trans additive in it and went back out.The temp light came back on after half an hour of hard pulling.

This morning,I made the huge mistake of taking the pressure relief valve plug out to see if the spring was OK,it definitely is. It took two of us to put it back in and involved a tire iron to push it back in. The pressure light still comes on below 1000 rpms.

It's got the right Hytran/Hyguard type oil,the cooler fins are clean.

Any ideas? I haven't put a gauge on it and checked the pressure. There was a little bit of metal shavings on the plug when I took it out by the way. But then,as much as I don't want to admit it,in the twelve years I've had it,I've changed the filter several times,but not the oil,so I don't know how long those few shavings have been there.
 
Does it heat in all positions of the hydraul-shift? One position doesn"t depend on a clutch. I believe its high range. The other 2 positions drive through clutches which are slipping and causing your heat.

I would do several fluid flushes before you remove it for repair. Also I would get rid of your current oil & additive and use Dexron only.

Hytran/Hyguard oil has several inherant anti-friction modifiers which will cause your clutch pacs to slip.

I use Ford type F auto trans fluid in my pulling tractor to make my clutches grab really good. Type F has a minimum of anti-friction modifiers in their oil.

Good luck.
 
I was running in 3rd overdrive. Just dropping in to direct when I had to on hills and underdrive to turn around.
I run ATF in the older Hydrapower units,but this over/under on the White is supposed to run the hytran type oil as far as I know. That's all that's ever been in it anyway.
 
Dug open my manual and found that low gear is actually running through the sprag clutch. When you're in over and direct the hydraul shift is running through individual clutch packs. If either of these clutch packs are slipping that's where you're picking up your high temps.

Try running in low range for about an hour and see if you pick up some high temperature. This will determine whether your two clutches are slipping or not.

If you don't get any high temps running in low range then I would flush a couple of times with dexron and try that type of oil.
 
You thinking flush it WITH the Dexron then? Put some in,run it a few minutes,drain it out,do it again,drain it,change the filter and refill?
What do you think about adding Lucas auto trans additive on the last fill?

Do you think I should just shoot some diesel fuel right in the top and out the bottom with the plug out before the second fill or so?
 
I have the relief valve get metal shavings in it and it would stick open might want to check that. Its a pain in the butt to get at but it might fix it.
 
That crossed my mind. I made the mistake of taking the plug out and that 6 inch long spring popped out. I didn't dare even try to go any deeper,but if there was anything in it,the pressure was off. I can't say that it fell down and out if there was a shaving in there. The pressure light still comes on below about 1000 rpms.
It rained so much last night I won't be able to get back in the field for at least a few more days,but I'll flush the system real good,change the filter again and go to Dexron.
 
I've actually have had to take the valve right out and clean it up you can thread a bolt in it and pull it out if I remember its 1/4" thread. The last one I rebuilt I put a new one in it.
 
I'll do it as a last resort if I have to,but it's darned near impossible to get in there on that thing. I had to lay on the ground with a tire iron wedged against it holding it in while the boy lined it up and took short turns with a wrench to get it back in. That spring didn't look six inches long in the manual.
 
Believe me I know I had to do that to our 185 fwa by myself lol. Pressure gauge let's u know what's going on too. Put it in place of the pressure sending unit.
 
Randy got my curiosity raised with the O/U oil type. The 1980 White 2-135 owners manual says to use UNIVERSAL HYDRAULIC-TRANSMISSION FLUID. The White part number is 30-310-5695.
I always used Dextron for the last 35 years. Maybe that why I had to rebuild one a couple of years ago. It only had 8600 hours on it. Might have got 10,000 hours if used HyTran.
 
Forgot to mention the change period is 1000 hours.
I talked to a few oil reps over the years and most claim hy-tran oils do not start to breakdown until 4000 to 5000 hours. I would think lubing the clutches might shorten the life to some degree.
 
I don't believe you have an oil problem. If the oil is dirty or smells burnt it is because something in the O/U is going bad. True I have also seen the pressure regulator stick so I would definitely pull it out to make sure it is not sticking. Otherwise I bet you have something broke in the O/U especially since you said you were pulling it hard in overdrive. There is a bulletin out about poor quality bolts holding the gear to the planetary carrier. I have seen these bolts break or the carrier split and because of the misalignment of the internals the pressure flow and lube flow is disrupted creating heat and thus low pressure.
 
NO, run what the book says to run. If ATF was really the solution, the boys who designed that transmission would have just kept right on using it until it was phased out. You have to assume the guys who designed the over under had a reasonable understanding of what it takes to make that transmission last. Both Hytran and Hygard are designed for powershift transmissions. If those fluids were not designed for clutches, there are hundreds of thousands of high power density, extremely expensive and sophisticated transmissions that are in trouble.

Without checking pressures first, you are just guessing at what is happening. It's possible one of your clutches is on the way out. It starts slipping which generates heat. Heat reduces viscosity which causes a drop in pressure.
 
If you have bad bolts in your over/under, it would start talking to you and you would find a lot of metal in the oil and in your oil filter. If you think you have metal in your oil, take a pair of tinsnips and open up your old filter and see if there is anything real bad going on.

After you change the oil, drive the tractor around a little bit to work the new oil into the clutch discs and relief valve. Shift it several times. I would hold off on the Lucas for the last resort. I would do this drain and fill a couple of times.

The hy-trans family of oils is a great high quality lube, however the over/under clutch pacs don't really need the hypoid additives.
 
I think they switched simply to reduce the number of different fluids a tractor needs. I see no problem running ATF, there"s no reason it would be detrimental. The clutch plates don"t care what oil is run as long as it is intended for use with wet clutch applications, which ATF certainly is. And ATF is great at providing the quick hydraulic shift function as well. Personally, I like the ATF because it"s cheap, performs great, and the red color clearly identifies that unit if it is leaking.
 
If you have low pressure warning, my bet is there is an internal leak with sealing ring or o-ring on the direct or over piston. If you're bleeding pressure through one of the pistons, the wet clutch that piston is supposed to compress is not going to do so with enough force to prevent slipping. And you'll see the temp warning with a slipping clutch. You need to get a pressure gauge, check the 2 ports just behind the oil filter. Front one is pressure for direct and the rear one is over.

Could also be an obstruction in an oil passageway, which might give you issues in both direct and over.

A good chance you'll be taking that one apart in the near future.
 
Well now I'm really in a conundrum. Should I just run it in underdrive? Change the oil and filter again with Hytran? Or triple flush it and change to Dexron?

If it's slipping,I sure can't tell. Like I said,I've been running mostly in overdrive. It snaps right in as long as the pressure light isn't on. When I drop to direct on hills it snaps in OK and seems to pull with no issues. I drop to underdrive on the headlands to turn around and it snaps right back up to direct and underdrive alright.
Maybe I need to have some help right here to get that plug back in and revisit the relief valve again. I panicked and put it right back in instead of taking the valve all the way out. I've got too much to do yet to have that thing down because of my own stupidity in tearing something apart that I shouldn't have.
 
Low pressure on either of the clutch circuits will cause some slipping, even if you don't notice it. Since the over circuit is closer to the pump and smaller in volume, it will always shift faster than direct. This is less noticeable at rated RPM, because there is more pressure than at idle.

I can't remember what pressure the white tractors monitor in the cab and what the threshold is. If they monitor lube pressure, not clutch pressure, that could be obstruction near the pump, or the pump failing. Low lube pressure is going to hurt bearings and the sprag. In which case, I would stop now before you spend a lot of money in shaft/bearing/sprag replacement.

You need to buy, rent, or steal a pressure gauge. Check NAPA or Oreillys. Any gauge they have for checking automatic transmissions will work.
 
And the regulator could definitely be a problem if it is sticking because it is dirty. Another issue could be the spring, but I'd cross that off the list since it took a lot of effort to get the plug back in.
 
One more thing… the bypass valve is accessible when you have the regulator plug out. It held by a female pipe plug, 3/8 I think, just below the regulator plug. Part of the regulator plug covers the bypass plug. Pull the bypass and inspect and clean also. That controls lube pressure.
 
Kell, you're absolutely right, the Hytran/Hyguard oil is just simply a multipurpose universal gear lube that can be used in a huge assortment of various equipment types.

Good input, if we can help our buddy with some suggestions, perhaps he can get back in the field without pulling his over/under.
 
Well,I thought I was done for. I went to town,got another filter and I had forgot (like I do too often) that I had gone to a Dex/Merc combo in the 1600 two years ago and a hydrapower that was never right,went right to working. So I bought some more.

I came home,started it,it acted just like it did when I shut it off,the light would come on below 1000. I drove it around to the fuel barrel and drained it. I stuck the diesel nozzle in it with the drain plug out and ran about 2 gallons in and back out in short spurts. I put the plug in,put the DexMerc in and started it. The light wouldn't go off. I ran it all the way up wide open,it finally went off but I could only idle it back to about 1900,so I let it run fast enough to keep the light off. I shifted up and down several times of course. When it started to warm up after a few minutes,I shut it off,drained it again and changed the filter. I refilled it,started it up and the light would NOT go off at all at any speed. It's wired to a switch so when you push the clutch,the light goes off no matter what. I snapped the pedal real quick and it went off and stayed off. Then I could idle it all the way down. I drove it around a little bit,shifted it up and down several times at slow rpms,it seems pretty good,but every time the light would come on,I'd snap the clutch pedal and it would go off and stay off until I did something different as far as stopping,starting or shifting.
The one thing I've noticed at a dead idle,even with the light off,when I take off in direct,it seems to be in underdrive for a second,then shifts up.
I put it in first gear direct,took off then jammed both brakes. The brakes growled to beat the band and I didn't think it was going to,but I finally managed to kill the engine. If the clutches were slipping,I sure as heck couldn't tell. She just kept pulling down until I finally killed it.

So,I don't know. The ground's still a little wet,I have to grind feed this afternoon. I'll try doing some discing tomorrow and see what happens. Here's hoping that at the very least it doesn't get any worse.
 
Remove relief valve put the stem in a drill and polish it with apiece of brown paper grocery bag. Do not overfill with oil it will overheat especially in the over side.
 
It really would be best to just put a gauge on it and see what"s happening. If you are really low on pressure, it doesn"t matter what fluid is in there, you could damage it. Heck, this could be an electrical problem for all we know. You are throwing a lot of time and money at this without doing the basic trouble shooting. Just my $.02.
 
What's the pressure supposed to be on it? Just pull the sensor out and put it in there?
 
I agree with e. Maybe go to a plumbing store and get the fittings and a gauge. The little testing your going to do a cheap gauge will do fine. I usually use an acetylene/oxygen regulator gauges for permament gauge.
We have run Olivers and Whites since the 1960s. Put on lots of hours and overhauled our share of
O/Us. Early on we used to play with gauges a lot. Didn't take to long to learn that most times it is best to not overthink it(exhausting mentally). Just get some help and yank it out. They are not to bad to rebuild. I weld up and grind any worn parts back to specs.
I do not know how many hours you use it in the spring, but if its under 100-200 I would just run it. As long as it does not vibrate, and has some pressure and does not slip the damage is probably normal where and tear. A lot of guys are against welding and grinding bores and shafts, but I have just as good luck as buying new parts. Tried it both ways.
Unless you are going to put 300 plus hours on it,
I would just say a couple prayers(seriously) and run it. Think I am a few years older than you and I have gotten to the point that unless its life threatening not going to let anything bother me that much. I might not have that much time left.
ps On the post about the broken bolts, that has never happened in our 135s. Good luck this to shall pass.
 
I would stop running it just happened to me this spring the hydraul in our 4-210 started slipping ran until it lost over and direct and now I have it out and my local agco shop has it apart and it is total junk input shaft bearing went out input shaft is junk and the output shaft is gauled bad and it has a light in the dash that was coming on before it started slipping so now its 6000 dollars worth the parts!!! When they loose pressure there is something inside coming apart getting stuck in pressure regulator and it shuts off lube pressure!!!
 
Randy, my over/under service manual says clutch pressure should be between 170-200psi. Think dad's series 3 2-135 has a clutch pressure gauge in the cab, my 2-180 does too and it run 200psi plus. 1/4 inch pipe plugs might need to be heated a touch to loosen, but a short hydraulic hose and a 0-300psi gauge make pretty quick work of this test.

Regulator valve (big plug on the front side of the o/u housing) can be shimmed by adding washers to increase clutch pressure. That big spring is a real treat to try to get back in, so if you take it out be prepared and pack a lunch.

Would test pressures first, if it's making the right pressure, then you've prob ripped the teeth out of your fiber clutches. My 2-180 is like that right now in overdrive, but until something happens to direct, or under, we run it as is. The $6-$10k numbers to fix an o/u are someone getting taken advantage of in my opinion. I rebuilt dads 2-180 o/u a couple years ago using all Agco parts and total parts bill was $2k, and since it was a tractor he planned to use, I replaced most everything except for the shafts. He had lost all 3 speeds in his, sprag had broke down, all clutch packs (metal and fiber) were destroyed.

Worst part is pulling the engine, after that there is nothing to be afraid of here, this is a poor mans automatic transmission and not more complicated that that. Can send you any of the p/n's or instruction manual pages you need, just let me know.
 

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