1365 steering

Is anybody familiar with the power steering on the 1365 Cockshutt/Oliver?

Mine's FWA,no secret there. From time to time it steers OK,other times not. If I put down pressure on the loader and lift the front,I can spin it right around with one finger in the middle of the steering wheel. The reservoir is full,I took the filter screen out and cleaned that.

It seems like if it turns one way going forward,say to the left,it won't turn the other direction. When I start to back up,then it will turn the other way. Am I right in thinking that there is a cylinder up under the battery or somewhere that activates when the drag link starts to move? If that's the case,is there an adjustment somewhere? It's like there must be some movement in the front axle forward and back when the tractor changes direction that lets is activate going one way,then the other way when I go the other way.

Am I right in that assumption?

The loader is in the way of getting in there,getting the battery out and doing something about it,but if I knew I was going to get it fixed by taking the loader off so I could get to it,I'd do it.

I have my front support piece re-assembled and sitting on the floor right now, so happy to post some pics if it would be helpful. I have completely rebuilt everything (and I mean everything) on mine because it was in terrible shape, so I've had every single piece apart.

There is a small actuating valve on top of the power assist cylinder that sits underneath the battery box compartment. In order for the power assist cylinder to work, and help you steer, the manual steering box has to actuate the valve. I had so much linkage slop in mine that it couldn't have been much more than manual steering because the actuating valve was never moving. There is an adjustment for this (which I think you might have a fighting chance of getting to without taking too much stuff off), it's located on the drivers side of the front support. The steering piece that the tie rods bolt to (see page 162 of the agcoparts book, item number 20 & 23) has an adjustment pin with 2 adjuster screws (diagram onlys shows 1 but that is not correct, there are 2). If you loosen those lock nuts and back the bolts out some on each side, it introduces play into the linkage (which sounds counterproductive), but the additional play here allows the manual steering box portion of the linkage to move more in each direction giving you a chance to move the actuating valve sooner. You can see the front suppport piece in the lower right hand corner of the attached pic. You would need to be able to get your hand in that hole on the left side of the support to work on this.

I can post all of the pics you would like tonight, just let me know what would be helpful to see. The list of things that I had to build/machine/replace to clean up the excess linkage play on mine is enough to make a grown man cry, so I'm hopeful you don't find yourself in a similar situation. Mine had been used on a cattle feedlot its entire life and appeared to have had maintenance done 1 time, at the factory when it was built, and not after that.

Thanks a million. Do you have a close up picture of that actuating valve so I know what I'm looking for then? And of where you can access it from?

Mine seems pretty tight as far as the tie rods,drag link and those things go. The only slop seems to be just a little bit of forward and back play in the main axle pivot pin.

OK,I found it on page 162. If you can just get a real picture of it instead of a schematic that would be great. Sometimes I need both.

Here are some close ups, the actuating valve sits right on top of the power assist cylinder. I doubt that you can get to it without removal of a bunch of stuff. That valve has a self centering spring (not sure if that is the right terminology), but the point is that its normal position is centered so that no oil is flowing to either side of the cylinder, and it takes movement from the mechanical steering linkage to push/pull this valve and cause oil to flow in one direction or another to the cylinder.

I'm by no means a qualified mechanic, but based on your comment that your linkage is pretty tight, I would consider trying to adjust the steering pin screws outward, which will allow a little more steering travel prior to manually turning the front wheels, this should give you some additional distance to push/pull the actuator valve prior. I apologize if my explanation is not good, I'm not sure what the correct terms are for what I'm trying to describe. In the attached pics, you can get a good view of the pieces. In the 1st pic, the bolt on the bottom right of the steering linkage has a lock nut on it, there is another just like that on the opposite side, you can see it in the last pic. If you can get to those, that's where I would start. Loosen the nuts, and back both screws out a turn or two.

It's a bit of an optical illusion, but the linkage will push/pull the actuating valve some distance (depending on how much adjustment you have allowed in the adjuster screws) before the linkage overrides and you begin to manually push/pull the cylinder itself, and therefore manually steer the tractor.

I should be around the house the rest of the evening, so let me know what others pics you need.

Excellent! I can't thank you enough. If you used technical terms my eyes would glaze over and I wouldn't know what you were talking about. Unless something comes up,I'll drop the loader off in the morning and see if I can get at those.

I'll let you know how it works out. Thanks again.

Couple of comments that may or may not be useful to you. My center pivot pin was loose as could be, bushings were gone, pin worn from rubbing against the cast pieces for years. Getting it driven out was a 2 week long task of heat/beat/cool/soak and repeat. Bushings were very expensive from agco, I'll make the next ones myself. My opinion, don't mess with that pivot pin unless you really need to. If you really need to, then take the little bolt out of the front of the pin and tap the metal plate to see if the pin will rotate, if it will then you got a chance, if it won't, then you're in for a fit.

2nd item, the little metal grease cap on top of the front support that lets you grease the steering pivot pin, is NOT available anywhere, so whatever you do and whatever kind of shape yours is in, save it because you'll have to repair it. I had to braze the holes up in mine and braze a new copper tube into it and the grease fitting block. Mine was rusted badly as you can see, and I'm not much of a brazer, but I added a large o-ring under the cap when I was done and it's going to work fine.

There were a bunch of other tricks to this front end, I'm happy to share if at all helpful.

Mitch, is your 1365 a 2wd or 4wd? Is the front axle carrier housing the same for both? I am going to try to save your pics, they are valuable!!
Thanks for your efforts.

WOW!!! That's all I can say! I can't even come up with enough superlatives or exclamations. Now it's the tractor that I wanted when I bought it!

I tossed a chain around the loader arms and hooked them to the loader on the 1600,pulled the pins and backed out,drove it in to the shop,turned the wheels to the right and shut it off. I took the grille off,slid the battery over and saw that somebody had been there ahead of me.

There was a hole cut in the plate under the battery and the back adjusting screw was right there staring me in the face. It was turned almost all the way in,so I loosened the locknut,stuck a long screwdriver in through the drag link hole and backed it out two turns. I started it up,spun it right around with one finger in the center of the steering wheel. I turned it to the left and shut it off.

The front screw was right there then. That one was out a long ways,but I turned it out one more turn. Might be my imagination,but it seemed like it took a split second of hesitation out of it. Just for the heck of it,I turned it back to where it was,then in two turns. Then it wouldn't turn right at all,so I went back out 3 turns.

I didn't even have to take the front of the loader frame off. I greased everything,put the arms back on,drove out in the bunker silo and grabbed a bucket full of silage. It works! It slows down when it gets toward the outside in both directions and starts to make the relief valve whine,but if I move the least little bit forward of back turning left or right it spins right on around. Seems to be equal,doesn't turn harder one way than the other,doesn't hesitate one way more than the other.

It's not quite like hydrostatic steering,there's that split second of hesitation,but it's fantastic!

I had planned on an all day job with limited results,but from the time I drove it out of the barn until I parked it,was less than an hour.

With this,and the new seat I put on it last weekend,that red thing is worthy of a new green paint job now.

I can't even begin to thank you enough for the explanation and the pictures. If I meet you in person somewhere,that's worth a steak dinner. Thanks again!

Mine is 4wd, the supports are not the same from 2 to 4wd.

Happy to help, glad it worked out. Would you mind sharing what kind of loader you have on yours? I'd like to put one on mine when I get it done because I think this tractor will be really really handy to have around with a loader, but I'm not excited about the style that bolts to the back axle. Would like to have something that is easy on/easy off, which it sounds like yours is. Also, what kind of seat did you go with? Haven't decided on mine yet, but want something comfortable.

It's a White 1524. The frame doesn't come off the tractor easy,but as long as you have something to hang the arms on,that part does. Somebody has put quick couplers on top of the valve so the bucket hoses can be popped off in a hurry. The cylinders stay on the frame on the tractor,I just have to chain them up.

I put a Tisco universal mount seat on it. I got it brand new in the box from a vendor at a steam show last Saturday for $100. fits like it was made for it and rides like a dream.

I'll update this for the archives with a picture of the hole that's cut under the battery on mine. I took it while I had it apart the other day to paint it. Those adjusting screws are right down in there where they're easy to get to.