TSC Diesel Oil

Anyone know who refines TSC Heavy Diesel Oil 15w-40w? How does it compare with Rotella 15W-40w?

(quoted from post at 10:47:44 01/05/17) Anyone know who refines TSC Heavy Diesel Oil 15w-40w? How does it compare with Rotella 15W-40w?

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Most (all) of TSC's Traveller house brand lubricants are manufactured by Warren Oil Co. and the heavy duty diesel oil is a conventional API CJ-4/SN oil. Rotella T Triple Protection is a conventional API CJ-4/SM oil. Rotella T5 is a semi-synthetic CJ-4 diesel only oil.

TOH

I have used shell rotella 15w40 diesel oil in my old tractor for years,
works good and the old tractor holds a better oil pressure,

also use the same oil in my dodge diesel truck,
I am satisfied with this oil,

this oil used to have a higher level of zinc than standard motor oils, for long motor life,

but epa may have pulled zinc from their formula by now, I do not know,

its good oil in my opinion,

changing oil and filter, no matter the brand, on a timely bases is the key to long life in the these old tractors,

(quoted from post at 13:53:00 01/05/17)
but epa may have pulled zinc from their formula by now, I do not know,

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You have been listening to the scare mongers. The EPA has not pulled the zinc or more accurately the phosphorous from any engine oil. The API has established a limit for phosphorous levels in some grades of engine oil based on the needs of the automotive manufacturers. There is not now nor has there ever been a limit on the level of phosphorous in a grade 15W40 engine oil.

TOH

I do not.

That said, I use name brand diesel spec 15W40 oils in all of my diesel tractor engines and generic (just about anything that is on sale) diesel spec 15W40 oils in all of my vintage Ford gasoline tractor engines.

As you are posting in the 9/2/8N forum, it seems a moot point.

Dean

I think people just generically call it 'zinc' because they don't know it's Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)

(quoted from post at 15:15:03 01/05/17) I think people just generically call it 'zinc' because they don't know it's Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP)

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I have to disagree. I'd say the vast majority of people who are aware of the issue think:

a) the limit is an EPA mandate
b) the elemental limit is on zinc
c) zinc is the anti-wear element

None of those are correct. This whole issue has been the subject of so much FUD and pure, sometime malicious, misinformation it's mind boggling.

TOH

Does posting on this sight mean that I don't own or operate diesel equipment?

(quoted from post at 22:03:36 01/05/17) Does posting on this sight mean that I don't own or operate diesel equipment?

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I would say no, but you did get the answers to your questions in the first reply.

It is acceptable and common to refer to this additive as Zinc, even major oil companies use it. It is not common to refer to the additive as Phosphorus though. ZDDP contains zinc and phosphorus.

The EPA did not mandate ZDDP levels in oil, but due to their mandate on the longevity of certain emissions devices is what required the reduction of the additive.

Diesel oil like 15w40 grade does have limits on additives including ZDDP. It wasn't much of an issue with the API CI-4 and older categories, but the most current CJ-4 & CK-4 have seen reduced levels, CJ-4 has been around for 10 years so this is not something new.

I kind of waited a while to see where this discussion on oil would go,

folks on the site are very knowledgeable of lubricants and are passionate about the type oil they use,

I normally learn a few things by the time one of these post runs it's natural course,

I had a friend, over the road truck driver, each oil change in that big peterbuilt, he had the mechanic add one gallon of Lucas oil stabilizer, must have helped some as the motor had over 250k miles and still going strong

As I said before, I will stick with shell rotella 15w40, pick it up at Walmart on sale-from time to time,
However I do like Baldwin oil filters, I think using the best oil filter you can afford is just important as the oil you use,
Good discussion,

some more reading.
Untitled URL Link

Yeah, but, a diesel engine is only getting broken in at 100K miles anyway, so 250K is not unusual. My late uncle once told me when I inherited the family early 9N to always use STP oil treatment in it because it ran so much better. I don't use it but then the tractor is in restoration now too. I have to question when folks make comments like that because there is no factual data to back up their statements. They base their testimony on what they perceive to be true. I was an automotive engineer for 35 years and worked with and in QC departments as well. My classic mantra was to always demand to see the data, I'd say, "...I'm from Iowa, show me, Show me the data...".

Tim *PloughNman* Daley(MI)

(quoted from post at 00:52:59 01/06/17) It is acceptable and common to refer to this additive as Zinc, even major oil companies use it. It is not common to refer to the additive as Phosphorus though. ZDDP contains zinc and phosphorus.

The EPA did not mandate ZDDP levels in oil, but due to their mandate on the longevity of certain emissions devices is what required the reduction of the additive.

Diesel oil like 15w40 grade does have limits on additives including ZDDP. It wasn't much of an issue with the API CI-4 and older categories, but the most current CJ-4 & CK-4 have seen reduced levels, CJ-4 has been around for 10 years so this is not something new.

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I tend to focus on gasoline engine oils rather than diesel oils so I should be more careful when making assertions.

The API diesel service categories CJ-4 and CK-4 limit phosphorous to .12% by mass for all viscosity grades. That is 50% higher than the current passenger car limit.There were no chemical limits in service categories CI-4/CI-4+ or their predecessors.

As for gasoline engine oils it appears that the API treats grade 15W40 as a special case. Correct me if I am wrong but my reading of the requirements for passenger car service categories SN (below) do not limit phosphorous content for grade 15W40 but the diesel categories CJ and CK do. In the case of grade 15W40 oils carrying a combination diesel and gasoline service designation the phosphorous level is limited only if the diesel classifications (e.g. CJ/CK) precede the gasoline classifications on the label [b:dc68c38085]AND there is no API Certification Mark[/b:dc68c38085] (e.g. the For Gasoline Engines starburst). See the highlighted footnote at the bottom of the second page of the ballot.

So let me rephrase my earlier assertion. I would say that in general, for API certified passenger car engine oils the phosphorous level is only limited for grades 0w20, 5W20, 0W30, 5W30, and 10W30. All other viscosity grades can contain as much phosphorous as the blender chooses to use. Starting with service category SN the API introduced a new category called resource conserving (not to be confused with the already existing energy conserving) oils. For SN service category oils that are also labeled [u:dc68c38085]resource conserving[/u:dc68c38085] the phosphorous level is limited for all viscosity grades.

TOH

PS> I believe ILSAC limits apply to all or at least a wider range of grades.

Of course not.

That said, it still seems a moot point regarding 9/2//8N Fords.

Dean

..... some grades of engine oil based on the needs of the ...

TOH

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I am sure I could figure it out ,,, in a couple of days , LOL ,,, but you could probably answer it in a few minutes or less ,

In a nut shell any decent oil will be more than adequate for an N's needs . Some people like 10w30 and a lot of people like Rotella 15-40 .

I saw the chart on the 20-50 vs 30 and I had always thought the 20 would be thinner in cold weather

Around here 20 degrees is about as cold as you would start a tractor in cold weather up North maybe 0 ? ( not trying to start thread on the coldest start ever ) so how does the well liked Rotella flow on cold start ups compared to 10w30 in simple terms ?

(quoted from post at 18:50:34 01/06/17)

..... some grades of engine oil based on the needs of the ...

TOH

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I am sure I could figure it out ,,, in a couple of days , LOL ,,, but you could probably answer it in a few minutes or less ,

In a nut shell any decent oil will be more than adequate for an N's needs . Some people like 10w30 and a lot of people like Rotella 15-40 .

I saw the chart on the 20-50 vs 30 and I had always thought the 20 would be thinner in cold weather

Around here 20 degrees is about as cold as you would start a tractor in cold weather up North maybe 0 ? ( not trying to start thread on the coldest start ever ) so how does the well liked Rotella flow on cold start ups compared to 10w30 in simple terms ?

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I think I posted this viscosity curve in the past but here you go - one picture worth a lot more than all of my words ;-) The 15W40 is a little heavy for sub-freezing temperatures and pretty close to a monograde SAE 30 at temperatures below freezing. I wouldn't want it in my tractor when the temps dip anymore than I would want the SAE 30. A good old 10W30 (or even better a quality 5W30) will lubricate just as well when hot and pump better when the temps drop below freezing.

TOH