When everything is fresh they sure start easy

Recently got through with a complete rebuild of my 1951 8N. It is completely stock, with a good 6V system. Other than an annoying rear main seal leak that i'll eventually deal with, very happy with the results. Hydraulics work perfect and hold position, brakes are balanced and clutch is smooth. Good 28 to 30 psi oil pressure with 5W-30 synthetic.

I was trying to set the timing perfect so wanted to mark the flywheel with a dot of paint at 4 deg. Just wanted to jog the engine a bit, but had the key on. Stone cold it started up just with a quick half second hit of the starter. Idle is a bit high right now while I work out governor and rod adjustment, but still pretty amazing compared with the old pre-rebuild days when it would take several minutes to get it going, playing with the choke and throttle position.

For me this really proves the point that converting to 12V is really just a bandaid for an engine in poor condition.

Most 6V lubbers don't understand 6V and will never understand the benefits of 12V... I am sorry for your lost you have my condolences...

There is a big difference starting a small low compression engine than a large higher compression engine.

No, It is not a bandaid, but yes, it is a convenience.

And alcohol does not improve grammar either ; )

You worry about the oil leak and I will worry about the grammar...

(quoted from post at 20:39:11 12/16/16)
You worry about the oil leak and I will worry about the grammar...

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I was referring to MY grammar : )

Though there are some advantages of converting to 12V these days, most folks do, indeed, make the conversion as a bandaid to mask other issues.

Yes, a properly maintained 6V system works quite well on a vintage Ford tractor in decent condition.

Dean

Well, if I were you . . .

Thank God I'm not!!

And me also being a lover of synthetic, I'd up that viscosity right smartly after your breakin period has passed. For starters it will probably slow up your seal leak and might even raise your oil pressure a little.

I sold synthetic and did all those conversions for years and one interesting circumstance that happened was that two different customers' Volvos would use, i.e., burn a little 10W40 Amsoil synthetic after the conversion. In other words light enough to get past the rings.

But, I kid you not, as soon as I switched them both to Amsoil [b:1db7b84f4e]15W40 [/b:1db7b84f4e] both those Volvos stopped using oil. They weren't using oil to begin with before the synthetic. But I ran tons of other vehicles successfully on that 10W40.

That was the problem with Mobil 1
All they had for the first few years was something like 5W20
. . . I think it was. Only applicable to a tight new engine.
Mobil 1 is a synthesized Hydrocarbon synthetic.

My next oil change on the Jube, this spring will be Amsoil 15W40. 15W40 in there now.

I did the engine, transmission etc., on a friend's Toyota Tercel
all synthetic. He told me later that without a tune up or any other changes, he was getting 14 more mpg thanks to the oil.

(((Talk about the midnight rambler)))

And for some, an N - be it 6V or 12V - is
just a band aid for having a real tractor.

(quoted from post at 16:12:51 12/17/16) And for some, an N - be it 6V or 12V - is
just a band aid for having a real tractor.

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:lol:

(quoted from post at 20:16:11 12/16/16) Recently got through with a complete rebuild of my 1951 8N. It is completely stock, with a good 6V system. Other than an annoying rear main seal leak that i'll eventually deal with, very happy with the results. Hydraulics work perfect and hold position, brakes are balanced and clutch is smooth. Good 28 to 30 psi oil pressure with 5W-30 synthetic.

I was trying to set the timing perfect so wanted to mark the flywheel with a dot of paint at 4 deg. Just wanted to jog the engine a bit, but had the key on. Stone cold it started up just with a quick half second hit of the starter. Idle is a bit high right now while I work out governor and rod adjustment, but still pretty amazing compared with the old pre-rebuild days when it would take several minutes to get it going, playing with the choke and throttle position.

For me this really proves the point that converting to 12V is really just a bandaid for an engine in poor condition.

Click to expand...

Boy is that a blanket statement! Guess a guy should really start by saying what cold is? We have already been -15F or so. That kinda cold? Heck to a guy in HI or FL +30F is brutal. Here at +30F we start thinking about getting the boat ready for fishing opener! They are saying that we are supposed to get to -25F or so this weekend. So what's cold?

All of my tractors that were originally 6V are now 12V. All of em have good compression and oil pressure well within the OEM's specifications. 3 out of 4 have been rewired. One with about 20 hours on a fresh engine.

I can list off reasons to go either way. For 12 volt: Compatibility with other equipment especially when having to boost start. Price of replacement batteries. Ease of starting in all conditions well into the sub zero range. Reliability of the charging system. That's just to list a few. Reasons to stay with 6 volt: For shows. That is the only reason I can think of to keep one 6 volt.

Toss in the fact too that it's to the point that you have to search for a battery charger that will charge 6 volt. Last big, mounted on wheels charger that I bough won't charge 6 volt. Last small charger I bought won't charge 6 volt.

So I don't think your theory holds water.....But It's your tractor. You can shop around for a hand crank and a magneto and start it that way too, because it's your tractor! Knowing some of the tight wad guys of yesteryear who learned on hand crank start I can just imagine them when electric start first became standard instead of optional: Well mine always starts with 2 cranks! Why are they making me pay for something I don't want? The difference here is that if the tractor is worked pretty often over say a 10 year time frame TODAY it's most likely going to be cheaper to convert. No more having to buy 3 or 4 VR's when one goes bad to get a new one. Cheaper batteries, less expensive chargers.....not nearly as much blood pressure meds.... :lol:

Rick

"That is the only reason I can think of to keep one 6 volt."

Another would be: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Dean

HaHa, yes. Little did I realize that 6V vs 12V is a "hot button" issue, cracks me up.

Certainly headed out to start a tractor in below zero weather I would prefer knowing I had a 12V battery (or whatever the actual full load voltage at below zero might be). But on the other hand I would also be headed for the "real tractor" in the shed : )

Bingo, Vette.

I know of no one who is making his living with a Ford N, and have not known any such person for decades.

Dean

Not saying that they are making a living off an N. But a lot of folks, especially on here, it's the only horse in the barn when it comes to moving snow. Lot of us are old enough or have medical issues where a shovel isn't an option! Lot of guys on here are on a budget too. My 50 year old BIL, who has a bad heart is on disability. He can't shovel snow nor can he afford to pay someone. I drive a tractor in 8 miles to do his drive. It's his only option. I'm fortunate enough to have a few toys. 2 mid 60 Farmall tractors, 72 and 112 HP with heated cabs, TLB, dozer, Farmall M and 2 8N's. Got a good friend who lives on a farm near me, mid 60's, disabled, he can afford an 8N and that's it. If that won't run it's one more drive I do. So for some cold starting is very important. And that N may be it.

I really don't care if someone keeps a tractor 6 or 12 volt. I do care about honesty. Making blanket statements or automatically assuming that people only convert as a bandaid or about the condition of an engine when you have no idea is a bit out there. Claiming that one way or another is better? That's questionable. While I only see staying one way as good only for a show tractor maybe another guy may have a pallet full of 6 volt batteries and lives in FL or AZ and thinks a snowflake is a derogatory term for a college kid. I'm sure that pro 6 volt guys can come up with fewer reason to convert and more reasons to stay stock.

Rick

Surely you cannot argue that most folks do not convert to 12V to mask other less easily rectified issues.

I never said all folks do so. That's why one uses modifiers, e.g., most.

I do agree that a 12V system on an N, if properly installed and maintained, is more likely to start an N with issues in cold weather than is a 6V system in similar condition.

That said, if your vintage Ford tractor with 6V system is in decent condition as is the starting and charging system, why spend money to buy 12V components to convert it?

Dean

run both.....
3 of my tractors run 6v/12v batteries.

And me also being a lover of synthetic, I'd up that viscosity right smartly after your breakin period has passed. For starters it will probably slow up your seal leak and might even raise your oil pressure a little.

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I plan on using Rotella 15w-40 T6 synthetic when ( If , LOL ) I get my 8N rebuilt . It is easy to find and I stock up on it when I find a sale because my 3000 diesel likes it too . I live in a fairly warm climate though .

(quoted from post at 10:33:23 12/17/16) Surely you cannot argue that most folks do not convert to 12V to mask other less easily rectified issues.

I never said all folks do so. That's why one uses modifiers, e.g., most.

I do agree that a 12V system on an N, if properly installed and maintained, is more likely to start an N with issues in cold weather than is a 6V system in similar condition.

That said, if your vintage Ford tractor with 6V system is in decent condition as is the starting and charging system, why spend money to buy 12V components to convert it?

Dean

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Dean could be a couple of reasons. I converted the 2 at the time most used, and we were farming at the time. I'd gotten to where I was using crutches most of the time. I got to thinking that if one of my kids came to help out and they had to boost or jump start one for whatever reason that everything I had was 12 volt that could be used. So I converted simply for compatibility. Now that I'm not farming it isn't such a big deal. Would I covert one today? Sure. First place I can sell the genny and VR if they are still good to recoup part of the cost. Hewck the ole M has say for 3 months. Bet I can go out there right now, no boost at -8F and it will start with no problems! I still remember an AC CA, fresh rebuild, rebuilt mag, nothing at all wrong with the fuel system, charging system good, starter gone through and having to plug in the tank heater for a couple of hours to get it to fire at -10F.

Now you can ask. Do I like my 8Ns? Sure. But now I don't use them as much as I did 3 years ago. Think one is going down the road so to speak later this winter. Just ain't using 2 like I use to. One will do what I need. And if I find a 600 or 2000 that I'm willing to part the money for they other one might follow the first one. Don't need anything bigger, just like something a little newer.

Rick

(quoted from post at 11:18:13 12/17/16) run both.....
3 of my tractors run 6v/12v batteries.

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I use both in my '51 Chevy van.
It has a floor button starter which makes this simple.

The starter is connected to a 12 volt battery.
But while running, gas gauge, ammeter, lights, horns etc.,
are all 6 volt.

O.K. so I have to periodically charge the starter battery.
My 6 volt was getting tired as far as rapid turn over, so my penny-pinching interim solution was the 12 volt for starting . . . and I just left it until I get around to new top-of-the-line 6V.

If the 12 volt gets drained for some reason, it's a breeze to connect the starter cable to the engine compartment 6V.

Back in the mid 70s we had a really cold and snowy Christmas. My mother and father in law were coming and he had health issues and didn't dare be in severe cold. The actual temperature was -20 degrees and the comfort index (whatever that is) was -60 degrees.

My 6volt 8N was in the barn with 10w30 oil and no heater on it. I wouldn't have bet five cents it would start. It grunted twice and started. I got my driveway plowed and that was the coldest I have ever been.

I've still got the tractor, it's still 6 volt, but now it lives in the garage with a block heater, a battery maintainer and a can of ether nearby. I know it will start.

(quoted from post at 21:00:59 12/18/16) Back in the mid 70s we had a really cold and snowy Christmas. My mother and father in law were coming and he had health issues and didn't dare be in severe cold. The actual temperature was -20 degrees and the comfort index (whatever that is) was -60 degrees.

My 6volt 8N was in the barn with 10w30 oil and no heater on it. I wouldn't have bet five cents it would start. It grunted twice and started. I got my driveway plowed and that was the coldest I have ever been.

I've still got the tractor, it's still 6 volt, but now it lives in the garage with a block heater, a battery maintainer and a can of ether nearby. I know it will start.

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Backed the Jubilation out into the new but now wet snow today, but unlike the fluffy stuff, the tractor just compacts it into soft ice and spin city here we go.
Chainless on Salt Spring. The movie

Checked the anti Freeze . . . good to -20 F like your 70's maelstrom of weather.
I hate metric, and growled when Trudeau forced it on Canada.

No point in putting the blade on, cause this snow's all going to melt. Makes me miss Sault Ste. Marie in the winter time. So I went on a short drive down the road and put him back to bed.

But I digress. . .
The Jubilee fired up instantly, with full choke and clutch down,
half choke in 15 seconds.
then she purred without a pop.

T

I have converted two good starting six volt tractors to twelve
volts. One was a Ferguson TO30 and the other a 51 8n.The reason is
the owners wanted an electric sprayer pump because the tractors
don't have live PTO. you can't find six volt sprayer pumps.

I have two Case SC tractors. One is six volts with Case magneto.
The other is twelve volts with Delco distributor. The six volt
will fire up faster than the twelve.

What I like about the twelve. I can buy cheaper irrigation
batteries or used battery from my car or truck.

I just converted my 48 8N to 12 volts a few weeks ago.

I've had my N for about 15 years, and for the majority of that time I wanted to keep it 6V so that it was original.

Over the last few years I've noticed that I had to maintain the points more often than I used to so I decided to convert to 12V and then add electronic ignition (Oh the horrors... )

I took the job in steps and first converted to 12v without doing anything to the breaker points that were not running well on 6v.

Holy cow that 8N jumps to life now !!! It starts instantly and idles down low without the random miss that I've been chasing on and off since I've owned it.

In fact, it runs so well on 12v using the points that needed cleaned and adjusted on 6v than I'm not gong to mess with the points or add EI.

I respect the people that want to stay on 6v, but I'm not looking back, I'm glad I changed to 12v.

If anyone wants my 6v generator, voltage regulator, headlights, and rear work light it's your for only my actual shipping cost.